Astounding Immorality of Islam: Allah's "Rewards" in Heaven

[Lordieth]

Funny, the tone of the thread hasn't been "There's a problem with fundamentalism and radicalism in Islam and we need everyone to solve that problem." It's been more like "Islam is a violent, immoral religion and it needs to be done away with by any means."

What is wrong for wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.

Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.

[Politicoandrous Anthronegative Proplex]

What is wrong for wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.

Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.

Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.

[Imperializt Russia]

In terms of terror 9/11 is a literally huge blip of bodycount. It's a thing that happened once. No incident has since eclipsed at and it's likely that no incident will.

Bodycount is a very short-sighted way of looking at terrorism since 9/11 weights it absurdly anyway. It misses the other factors and problems of terrorism. It's just used because it's the simplest and most easily digestible metric - a number describing a bad thing.

I didn't say 9/11 but okay. My point is that radical religion in the modern world, where explosives are common place, where nuclear weapons exist, where long range missiles exist, where there is simply too devastating weapons to be used in the name of some unproven deity, is incredibly dangerous. This wasn't as much a case in the Crusades. The crusades weren't intended, and could never, completely exterminate all muslims. The jihad of ISIS although unlikely, could kill all non muslims, and that's their goal.

I would argue that nuclear arms and particularly long-range nuclear arms are substantially beyond the capabilities of terrorist militias even if they somehow acquire them. The heaviest arm that IS captured in Iraq that I am aware of is a single FROG-7 missile (not even with launcher truck). It's hardly a superweapon.

[Lordieth]

Unless you apply that logic to every major religion, it's not gonna wash. I don't hear the outcry to eliminate Christianity (not in the West, anyway), yet the Bible isn't exactly a paragon of moral virtues either. That's because the problem is fundamentalism. Not religion. You can't eliminate religion.

Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.

Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

[Transoxthraxia]

Fundamentalist Buddhism and Christianity is supposed to be inherently peaceful, however.

Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

[Gauthier]

Funny, the tone of the thread hasn't been "There's a problem with fundamentalism and radicalism in Islam and we need everyone to solve that problem." It's been more like "Islam is a violent, immoral religion and it needs to be done away with by any means."

What is wrong with wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.

So again, why not internment camps?

[Lordieth]

Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...

[Avalon]

Or lots of things.

Religion of piece my ass.

Christianity is so lovey hand-holding in strawberry fields.

We're not talking Christianity, are we? Christianity can be the worst thing ever, but NOT a valid argument about if a different thing is immoral or not.

Now, is Islam immoral based on those quotes? it may be, if those obviously sexist principles have some effect on women's rights, freedoms and life. In many Muslim countries and areas it would seem so, and those beliefs are behind many sexist and homophobic laws and customs.

[The Alma Mater]

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

[Imperializt Russia]

Is it? Doesn't the bible talk about killing people who believe in other gods?

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Clearly heavily biased and thus I'm loathe to use it, but here's a list of supposed capital offences in the bible, mostly Old Testament.
http://www.evilbible.com/Murder.htm

[Dyrrachium]

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy

[Gauthier]

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.

[The Alma Mater]

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy

Really ? So what DO good moslimas get out of the afterlife while their husbands are fornicating ?

[Lordieth]

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

Because the point of OP is batshit crazy

People are addressing the point; by highlighting that this isn't a problem exclusive to Islam. We know religion can be hypocritical. This isn't news.

[Kotta Telangana]

What is wrong with wanting to eliminate Islam? Any rational human being with a decent moral compass should be strongly opposed to Islam. Those who support Islam are either ignorant or immoral.

So again, why not internment camps?

I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.

[Imperializt Russia]

Christianity is so lovey hand-holding in strawberry fields.

We're not talking Christianity, are we? Christianity can be the worst thing ever, but NOT a valid argument about if a different thing is immoral or not.

Now, is Islam immoral based on those quotes? it may be, if those obviously sexist principles have some effect on women's rights, freedoms and life. In many Muslim countries and areas it would seem so, and those beliefs are behind many sexist and homophobic laws and customs.

Christians in the west, particularly America, love to resort to the bible to enforce their sexist beliefs to trample women's rights, freedoms and life.

[The Alma Mater]

Deuteronomy contains much better "KILL ALL NONBELIEVERS" verses

Still, I cannot help but notice that noone else wants to discuss the actual point of the OP

The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I also mentioned that he has a point that Islam is really very, very, very vague on the afterlife for women while it is lyrical about that for men.

[Transoxthraxia]

I don't remember hearing about this passage. Could I get a link or source?

Deuteronomy 13:1-18 ESV

“If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or wonder that he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’ you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams. For the Lord your God is testing you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the Lord your God and fear him and keep his commandments and obey his voice, and you shall serve him and hold fast to him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has taught rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of slavery, to make you leave the way in which the Lord your God commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from your midst. ...

Ah, okay. I'm not a Christian myself, so I'm not overly familiar with scripture.

[Gauthier]

So again, why not internment camps?

I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.

No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

[Transoxthraxia]

I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.

No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

Like Zoroastrianism or Manichaeism at the hands of Islam.

[Gauthier]

The point of the OP is basically a "LOL EBIL MOOZLEMZ" wankfest.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I also mentioned that he has a point that Islam is really very, very, very vague on the afterlife for women while it is lyrical about that for men.

And it's an Abrahamic religion. The whole thing starts off with "Bitch Got Us Kicked Out of Paradise," so it pretty much sets the tone for how they're going to view women.

[Oasisa]

I am glad he brought up those bible quotes, I think everyone will benefit from seeing them, but it is courtesy to spoiler it so we can easily see the responses and such.

You can edit your post, spoiler it

don't put a space between the brackets and this message

and write above the spoiler the title of what the spoiler is about.

For anyone interested in my two cents about this conversation, I got a medium sized response below.

Also, I think it is heretical to interpret any text physically written by people to be interpreting the word of god. People have inherently flawed views, and they always bring their own biases into their writing, even by interpreting god. Hence believing a physically written text to be the word of God is worshipping humans instead of God, because your worshipping the text, not God.

Whatever form God (and his strange status as a supernatural being separate being from the universe), takes, we will always be flawed in perceiving God or whatever the actual universal equivalent is. Everyone on earth needs to realize that we are all flawed in our perceptions, and proceed on that assumption, even if we are interpreting words we believe or somehow know to be from God. It doesn't matter if the truth is prefect if the listener is biased, which all humans inherently are.

I believe if we are to worship a being who we believe to be good, that we listen to our hearts and do what we feel is right, and be willing to change what we do when we eventually know better. Any supernatural being or version of God that cannot accept is not worth worshipping, because being flawed in our interpretations, morally speaking and the natural world around us (which we are apparently apart of), is inherently part of being human.

[Gauthier]

No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

Like Zoroastrianism or Manichaeism at the hands of Islam.

Whereas Christian missionaries peacefully urged natives all across the globe to abandon their native religions and convert willingly.

[Lordieth]

Ah, okay. I'm not a Christian myself, so I'm not overly familiar with scripture.

I follow a couple atheist youtube channels, who tend to point these passages out on occasion. The bible has its share of good passages too, but people conveniently skim over the unpleasant stuff when it comes to Christianity, and focus heavily on it when talking about Islam. I bet if you compared the books like-for-like, they wouldn't be far off one another in terms of the good, the bad and the down-right ugly.

It was a different time. We've moved on from stoning people to death. Er. Mostly.

[Kotta Telangana]

I am opposed to using state violence or coercion to destroy religion, because this opens the way for all sorts of abuses of human rights by states. Rather, I support the usage of rational argument and free criticism to marginalize religions like Islam and demonstrate their underlying immorality and absurdity. In other words, I do not object to the goal of destroying Islam, but I think we should be careful about the means we choose to achieve that goal.

No religion in the world has ever been eliminated through arguments alone. Anytime a religion has been erased, violence has always been involved in the process.

No religion in the world has ever been subject to intense, global criticism and open debate before. It is only in modern times, with the advent of the Internet and instant communication, that we have a chance of organizing a global information campaign against Islam. We are already seeing numerous pro-secular, anti-Islamic sites, channels, books, etc. spreading all over the Internet. More and more people are becoming aware of just how immoral and disgusting this religion is.