Ventismar Union[OOC][Sunalaya Only]

[Ventismar Union]

The Ventismar Union

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In Character - Out of Character

This is the OOC thread for the Ventismar Union. All discussion should belong here! Proposals and other official matters belong in the IC thread.

Discussion Topics:

• How should voting for the parliament work?
• What should be the requirements for joining the union?
• What should be the treaties associated with the union?

[Ripuaria]

Regarding the parliament several systems have been suggested. The first system is that each country gets an equal number of representatives(elected by citizens) regardless of size and the second suggestion was to have the number of representatives(elected by citizens) according to the population size. Another system would be that each nation send a single representative(Not elected by the population) who votes according to the nation's will(Similar to the UN)

[Lindenholt]

I'd agree with option 1 and 2.

As for criteria to join, I'd say that if you are a democracy, located in Ventismar and all nations agree with you joining then you can join. For people wanting to participate in the currency union we need more rules.

[Felsinean Valley]

I reaffirm my proposal about the number of representatives: half the seats are assigned equally to each country, the other half according to the population. Also I'm completely against the UN system, which is extremely unrepresentative of people's will

[Kurrlattvi]

[Ignore this]

[Allentyr]

So, who got the HQ in their nation again?

[Capsland]

So, who got the HQ in their nation again?

Ripuaria.

I reaffirm my proposal about the number of representatives: half the seats are assigned equally to each country, the other half according to the population. Also I'm completely against the UN system, which is extremely unrepresentative of people's will

I agree, the votes determined by population is a good idea and we should have Ventismarian Elections where the population of each country votes for who they want to represent their country in the union. (be that party or individual person)

Nice flag you got there... >.>

It's the best flag in Sunalaya!

[Felsinean Valley]

Allentyr's population is 198 million, I think it should be reduces, also because it would procure him an excessive amount of seats

[Ripuaria]

So I've made an excel table to check the seats allocation. If we would have 500 total seats and divide half of them equally around the nations, each nations would receive ~41 seats. Here're the results for seats allocated based on populations:

Allentyr - 112(Total: 153)
Capsland - 44(Total: 85)
Felsina - 4(Total: 45)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 41);_;
Lindenholt - 41(Total: 82)
Zenuha - 49(Total: 90)

In total 496 seats would be filled and 4 would be vacant.
One thing we could do to balance it is remove Allentyr's automatically given seats(41 seats) and redistribute them around the other nations. That means that each nation except Allentyr receives 50 seats and the results would be as following:

Allentyr - 111(Total: 111)
Capsland - 44(Total: 94)
Felsina - 4(Total: 54)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 50)
Lindenholt - 40(Total: 90)
Zenuha - 48(Total: 98)

This keeps Allentyr's position at the top but only by a small margin instead of the massive one previously.
In total 497 seats would be filled and 3 would be vacant.

So...Does everyone agree with the latter system? We should start forming the alliances that would be running for elections so we could run and elect the president!

[Capsland]

So I've made an excel table to check the seats allocation. If we would have 500 total seats and divide half of them equally around the nations, each nations would receive ~41 seats. Here're the results for seats allocated based on populations:

Allentyr - 112(Total: 153)
Capsland - 44(Total: 85)
Felsina - 4(Total: 45)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 41);_;
Lindenholt - 41(Total: 82)
Zenuha - 49(Total: 90)

In total 496 seats would be filled and 4 would be vacant.
One thing we could do to balance it is remove Allentyr's automatically given seats(41 seats) and redistribute them around the other nations. That means that each nation except Allentyr receives 50 seats and the results would be as following:

Allentyr - 111(Total: 111)
Capsland - 44(Total: 94)
Felsina - 4(Total: 54)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 50)
Lindenholt - 40(Total: 90)
Zenuha - 48(Total: 98)

This keeps Allentyr's position at the top but only by a small margin instead of the massive one previously.
In total 497 seats would be filled and 3 would be vacant.

So...Does everyone agree with the latter system? We should start forming the alliances that would be running for elections so we could run and elect the president!

I agree with the latter system, everyone must be fair yo
Also, yesh! We must prepare for dem elections!

[Felsinean Valley]

So I've made an excel table to check the seats allocation. If we would have 500 total seats and divide half of them equally around the nations, each nations would receive ~41 seats. Here're the results for seats allocated based on populations:

Allentyr - 112(Total: 153)
Capsland - 44(Total: 85)
Felsina - 4(Total: 45)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 41);_;
Lindenholt - 41(Total: 82)
Zenuha - 49(Total: 90)

In total 496 seats would be filled and 4 would be vacant.
One thing we could do to balance it is remove Allentyr's automatically given seats(41 seats) and redistribute them around the other nations. That means that each nation except Allentyr receives 50 seats and the results would be as following:

Allentyr - 111(Total: 111)
Capsland - 44(Total: 94)
Felsina - 4(Total: 54)
Ripuaria - 0(Total: 50)
Lindenholt - 40(Total: 90)
Zenuha - 48(Total: 98)

This keeps Allentyr's position at the top but only by a small margin instead of the massive one previously.
In total 497 seats would be filled and 3 would be vacant.

So...Does everyone agree with the latter system? We should start forming the alliances that would be running for elections so we could run and elect the president!

This allocation is good to me, but Allentyr should really think to reduce his population anyway

Then, we should adopt a single time scale, ICly we'll have elections every 5 years, but OOCly I guess we don't want to wait until 2020 to renew the parliament

[Felsinean Valley]

However, I present you my current political scenario according to polls

http://i.imgur.com/pjfQ6oa.png

SLP, Social Liberals, in the EU would likely join EFDD, SLP is not as euro/ventisceptic as UKIP, but they think Ventismar's political jurisdiction should be limited to a smaller an area of competence than the current
Right HRAP, Liberals, both economically and socially, ALDE would be their party in the EU, better if slighty more rightist than ALDE is
YouFelsina, Pirates, so, Ventismarian Pirate Party
Greens, well, Greens (YF and Greens won't run together for the Ventismarian Parliament)
Socialdemocrats - Ophion Front, they'll try to form an Anti-Ventismar and Pro-Ophion group
United Left, Radical left, would be in GUE/NGL in the EU, will side with far left parties
Full Ahead!, similar to Marine Le Pen's Front National
LPU, Progressives, will join a center-left group
FAUFIRA, Agrarian Union, maybe Greens if they're not too much leftist or Conservatives
Autonomies, Federation of Regionalist Parties, basically rightist but they'll take account of any opportunity
Other parties aren't expected to win seats

[Ripuaria]

However, I present you my current political scenario according to polls

http://i.imgur.com/pjfQ6oa.png

SLP, Social Liberals, in the EU would likely join EFDD, SLP is not as euro/ventisceptic as UKIP, but they think Ventismar's political jurisdiction should be limited to a smaller an area of competence than the current
Right HRAP, Liberals, both economically and socially, ALDE would be their party in the EU, better if slighty more rightist than ALDE is
YouFelsina, Pirates, so, Ventismarian Pirate Party
Greens, well, Greens (YF and Greens won't run together for the Ventismarian Parliament)
Socialdemocrats - Ophion Front, they'll try to form an Anti-Ventismar and Pro-Ophion group
United Left, Radical left, would be in GUE/NGL in the EU, will side with far left parties
Full Ahead!, similar to Marine Le Pen's Front National
LPU, Progressives, will join a center-left group
FAUFIRA, Agrarian Union, maybe Greens if they're not too much leftist or Conservatives
Autonomies, Federation of Regionalist Parties, basically rightist but they'll take account of any opportunity
Other parties aren't expected to win seats

From Ripuaria's Political Parties there're
Volksfront - Currently Liberals who often change their ideology according to the popular choices. They are ALDE-ish
Sozialisten - Left wing who support Social democracy. S&D when it comes to European Union parties
Pirates - Duh
Kultiviert - Green Conservatives who greatly favor tradition(Similar to yours FAUFIRA; Might create an Alliance for these Green-Conservatives)
Grünes Blatt - Greens when it comes to everything, pretty simple.

So I would suggest the following alliances + colours:
The Ventismarien Environmentalists Conservatives Alliance(VECA)
Ventismar Conservatives Alliance(VCA)
Alliance for Liberals and Centrists of Ventismar(ALC)
Ventismar United Greens Alliance(UGA)
Socialists And Democrats Alliance for Ventismar(SADAV)
Ventismar of Freedom Alliance(VFA)
Far-Left Alliance for Ventismar(FLAV)
Pirates and Direct Democracy Alliance of Ventismar(P&DD)

I think that parties can form in every country independently but the Alliances are a combination of all the parties around the country. Parties in the national political system could form spin-off themselves for the Ventismar Union. Once elections arrive each nation would send results for each alliance in percentage, that gives the possibility that if there's no party of an alliance in a certain nation they can't receive any votes.

[Felsinean Valley]

I think that parties can form in every country independently but the Alliances are a combination of all the parties around the country. Parties in the national political system could form spin-off themselves for the Ventismar Union. Once elections arrive each nation would send results for each alliance in percentage, that gives the possibility that if there's no party of an alliance in a certain nation they can't receive any votes.

That's more or less how it works in the EU, with the difference that parties don't need to affiliate with an alliance before elections, in fact new parties often join a group only after they were elected, forcing all the parties to do it before might be a problem: while in Italy we had only 11 lists running for the European Parliament, Greece had something like 50! So, alliances drawn up in this way would cause some issues

[Ripuaria]

I think that parties can form in every country independently but the Alliances are a combination of all the parties around the country. Parties in the national political system could form spin-off themselves for the Ventismar Union. Once elections arrive each nation would send results for each alliance in percentage, that gives the possibility that if there's no party of an alliance in a certain nation they can't receive any votes.

That's more or less how it works in the EU, with the difference that parties don't need to affiliate with an alliance before elections, in fact new parties often join a group only after they were elected, forcing all the parties to do it before might be a problem: while in Italy we had only 11 lists running for the European Parliament, Greece had something like 50! So, alliances drawn up in this way would cause some issues

Good point... Except that, is there anything else we need before we start running the elections?

[Felsinean Valley]

When we'll have the results of all the member states, we should have IC talks between parties to form Groups/Alliances/Parties/Government Coalitions, but it seems that some of you aren't really interested in parliamentary dynamics

[Ripuaria]

Regarding expansion of the Ventismar Union, the latest country to apply to join was the Federation of Allentyr.

The results for the VU elections in the country showed a dominant two party system with one of them receiving 82% of the votes, considering the side of seats the country receives I would like to deny Allentyr's entry to the union and set up a condition to join:

A nation looking to join the Union must have a healthy democratic multi-party system and cannot have in their most recent elections a party winning over 50% of the votes.

I would like to hear the opinion of the other member nations. So far all except one nation(Zenuha) have sent the results of the elections

[Capsland]

Regarding expansion of the Ventismar Union, the latest country to apply to join was the Federation of Allentyr.

The results for the VU elections in the country showed a dominant two party system with one of them receiving 82% of the votes, considering the side of seats the country receives I would like to deny Allentyr's entry to the union and set up a condition to join:

A nation looking to join the Union must have a healthy democratic multi-party system and cannot have in their most recent elections a party winning over 50% of the votes.

I would like to hear the opinion of the other member nations. So far all except one nation(Zenuha) have sent the results of the elections

I think if a party gets over 50% in an election, that country shouldn't be excluded from the VU. (or is that just for newcomers?).
Also if Zenuha doesn't send the results we can just go off the ones we have already :) ... or guess his results xD

[Ripuaria]

Regarding expansion of the Ventismar Union, the latest country to apply to join was the Federation of Allentyr.

The results for the VU elections in the country showed a dominant two party system with one of them receiving 82% of the votes, considering the side of seats the country receives I would like to deny Allentyr's entry to the union and set up a condition to join:

A nation looking to join the Union must have a healthy democratic multi-party system and cannot have in their most recent elections a party winning over 50% of the votes.

I would like to hear the opinion of the other member nations. So far all except one nation(Zenuha) have sent the results of the elections

I think if a party gets over 50% in an election, that country shouldn't be excluded from the VU. (or is that just for newcomers?).
Also if Zenuha doesn't send the results we can just go off the ones we have already ... or guess his results xD

I just did the calculations and Allentyr's party would win 3 times more seats than any other party, might as well just call this a personal union with Allentyr...

[Lindenholt]

Regarding expansion of the Ventismar Union, the latest country to apply to join was the Federation of Allentyr.

The results for the VU elections in the country showed a dominant two party system with one of them receiving 82% of the votes, considering the side of seats the country receives I would like to deny Allentyr's entry to the union and set up a condition to join:

A nation looking to join the Union must have a healthy democratic multi-party system and cannot have in their most recent elections a party winning over 50% of the votes.

I would like to hear the opinion of the other member nations. So far all except one nation(Zenuha) have sent the results of the elections

Aye!

No two party systems.

[Capsland]

I think if a party gets over 50% in an election, that country shouldn't be excluded from the VU. (or is that just for newcomers?).
Also if Zenuha doesn't send the results we can just go off the ones we have already ... or guess his results xD

I just did the calculations and Allentyr's party would win 3 times more seats than any other party, might as well just call this a personal union with Allentyr...

oh gawd. In that case then yes. Democracy for all!

[Felsinean Valley]

I think Allentyrian can vote whoever they want, as long as parties can partecipate in free and democratic elections, but 82% isn't realistic in a democratic country, such a result can occur only in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia.. the 5 largest percentages won by a party in the EU in 2014 were Labour Party (Malta) 54,8%, Fidesz (Hungary) 51,5%, Unity (Latvia) 46,2%, HDZ (Croatia) 41,4% and Democratic Party (Banana Republic Italy) 40,8%
So, unless he have a very good reason to explain the outstanding performance of that party, or he should reconsider his results

[Ripuaria]

I think Allentyrian can vote whoever they want, as long as parties can partecipate in free and democratic elections, but 82% isn't realistic in a democratic country, such a result can occur only in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia.. the 5 largest percentages won by a party in the EU in 2014 were Labour Party (Malta) 54,8%, Fidesz (Hungary) 51,5%, Unity (Latvia) 46,2%, HDZ (Croatia) 41,4% and Democratic Party (Banana Republic Italy) 40,8%
So, unless he have a very good reason to explain the outstanding performance of that party, or he should reconsider his results

All the nations you listed are small nations that have little impact, but Allentyr's party would win 3 times more seats than the second largest party which seems completely absurd

[Allentyr]

I think Allentyrian can vote whoever they want, as long as parties can partecipate in free and democratic elections, but 82% isn't realistic in a democratic country, such a result can occur only in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Russia.. the 5 largest percentages won by a party in the EU in 2014 were Labour Party (Malta) 54,8%, Fidesz (Hungary) 51,5%, Unity (Latvia) 46,2%, HDZ (Croatia) 41,4% and Democratic Party (Banana Republic Italy) 40,8%
So, unless he have a very good reason to explain the outstanding performance of that party, or he should reconsider his results

Considering the fact the other parties are batshit nuts....

[Ripuaria]

Considering the fact the other parties are batshit nuts....

Allentyr cannot into politics... >.<