AMW Big Discussion Thread

[Somewhereistonia]

Well, I think the idea was to go in to defend Guinea; a bit like Kuwait when it was invaded by Iraq. We will of course do lots of fighting with (and possibly in) the USAR, but the thing to kick this off will probably be an escalation of attacks on Guinea.

An alliance between Talost and BG of some kind would probably be enough to prevent a full invasion of the USAR as we wouldn't want to start a larger war in Europe. I'm not sure what Rome has to gain from aiding Bundu, this could only serve to push Rome further into the bad guy category and as Guinea is hardly within striking distance; it wouldn't be worth it to defend "communists".

[Spyr]

Rome doesn't have to lift a finger to help Bundu... they just need to turn a blind eye as the Bedgellens sail supplies through the Med. NATO and the BDR are distracted by a little war in Africa, leaving them less ready for confrontations in Europe while giving Rome a chance to play the friendly, neutral mediator.

At the very least, every breath Spyr has to waste telling everyone Bundu isnt a 'real' socialist is one they cant spend calling for global unity against the incorrigible feudalists of Kiev.

[Talost]

One reason that NATO wouldn't crush USAR might be Rome. We might enter the conflict as a third party, we wouldn't want NATO in Africa anymore than the USAR would. Rome would not be an ally with the USAR, but might have a non-spoken, non-aggression, the enemy of my enemy is my friend type of deal.

That would certainly add an interesting angle. NATO couldn’t attack for fear of compromising their positions or provoking Rome. The problem with it, though, is if NATO has a common enemy (i.e. Rome), it might not have believable cause to fracture.

Provided that BG can get his supplies and what-not into the USAR without Rome noticing.

Do you think people would run dead bodies being shipped back to their families in the USAR through a metal detector? You could fit a lot of guns in a hollowed-out corpse.

I think it'll probably become pretty apparent when somebody counts the wheels on a shiny new USAR tank and realises, hey! That's not a T-55, that's not a T-55 at all! :/

Hmm, tanks might be a little harder to smuggle… But I’ll be damned if I won’t try!


So it sounds like we have a lot of this figured out. In order to keep this flurry of activity going, I suggest we get started on this RP as soon as possible. If it’s agreeable with everyone, I could even get something up in just a few days.

[Beth Gellert]

Smuggle? Smuggling is un-Geletian! Initially at least Akink's position will be that the USAR is a legitimate trade partner, and we can sell/lend/gift them anything we wish. It'll be up to others to decide whether to interfere with Beddgelen commerce, I suppose. The BDR certainly isn't worried about annoying Rome... it is common practice for politicians to talk about decapitating the emperor, and it's surely an open secret that GSIC sponsors banned Communist groups in the empire, particularly the Greek mainland. In short, the Beddgelens won't have been silent about their support for the USAR.

In fact, from our point of view, we'd love nothing more than to provoke the imperialist countries engage in a distracting, expensive, and propaganda gift of an anti-Communist Crusade in Africa. Especially since it is imagined that the Beddgelens would have more stomach for seeing it through, and so the Igovians may be the only ones sticking around with the means to rebuild when it's over. Er, probably won't put it that way for Bundu's attention, mind.

[Cassanos]

So we might see if one could pull off a sea blockade without the USQ or Britain? Hmmm...

Besides, TR-85s blow up the same as T-55s once you hit them with modern ATGMs .

[Beth Gellert]

So we might see if one could pull off a sea blockade without the USQ or Britain? Hmmm...

Besides, TR-85s blow up the same as T-55s once you hit them with modern ATGMs .

Not that TR-85s exist in AMW, but he's not getting TB-85s! Not unless he comes up with some cash, anyway. Besides, whose tanks are actually equipped with ATGMs, Beddgelert's, or NATO's?
's right, boyo.

(Nah, the TB-580s would just be for rolling-over Guinea and light 'peacekeeper' type deployments. If shit gets serious, well, it gets serious... )

Relevant to this, in light of sea blockade talk, may also be a small part of my post in Tahuantinsuyu's thread...

[Somewhereistonia]

As there have been no objections to the general idea (however it eventually pans out) me and Talost are looking to get this started tomorrow.

Cass, as it seems that it will mainly be me and you going in originally as peace keepers, shall we have the same battalions going that were originally going to USAR in the SoA?

Reinforcements will come later as will BG's forces in the most likely case. Leading to either a huge stand-off or a huge battle with lots of deaths.

I wonder if Spyr would like to join my little coalition? It would really split the socialists for good! Support of Britain and USQ will certainly be asked for by the Baltic, but ICly the Baltic would prefer to prove themselves capable without the big guns of these two.

[Talost]

Couple things before I start work on the OP. First, Cass, would you mind if it was only Germany that was involved, instead of Cassanos too? Or limited presence from the latter? I'm just wondering how Cassanos/USAR relations are, since ICly I purchased some tanks and equipment from you and have imagined us to be at least moderately favorable to each other, even if only as a customer.

Also, I would imagine that if BG starts sponsoring the USAR, we could get a Korean War-style battle going on. That is, Bedgellen pilots in Bedgellen planes with Republican markings, Bedgellen logistics, etc, supplementing USAR forces. That would certainly give you something to do, BG, if you RPed those forces. Sort of an open secret, like Russian involvement in Vietnam or China in Korea.

I'm worried about the Baltic States calling on both the US and Briton for help, since my understanding of the purpose of this RP was to provide an axe blow to the NATO bloc. I don't know, I might just be rambling again.

[Somewhereistonia]

I'd like the Baltic to take quite a leading role here, trying to create world peace etc. German ships will probably be bringing over the first troops which would hold back and be mainly a peace-keeping force. The Baltic would then pay the local militias to fight to "defend their country" and work them onto our side. Officially I would send out calls for help to the USQ and Britain (mainly to make this look like a legit mission) but the Baltic neither feels it needs, nor particularly wants that extra forces as it wants to prove itself (making it into a colony will be something that only gets considered later on).

It would be good to have BG get involved like that, if Spyr had some (almost certainly limited) involvement on my side then it could create tension and confusion.

[Talost]

So how exactly will the US/UK split occur? I know that neither government is particularly warm with each other right now, but it would take a lot to stop the two from cooperating.

[Cassanos]

@Unreal:

Cass, as it seems that it will mainly be me and you going in originally as peace keepers, shall we have the same battalions going that were originally going to USAR in the SoA?

Yes, but maybe a little bit more. If Guinea asks for help, we wouldn't need to make a combat landing, but could go forth with an amphibious force supplemented by airborne troops and a couple of heavy units on RO/RO-ships, landing in secure Guinean harbours.
Besides, we'd need a decent airfield if neither the UK nor the US support us with carriers (and even if they do, well, duh. Airfield be good.).
A full ORBAT would evelop from the RP itself, I think.

@Talost:

Couple things before I start work on the OP. First, Cass, would you mind if it was only Germany that was involved, instead of Cassanos too? Or limited presence from the latter? I'm just wondering how Cassanos/USAR relations are, since ICly I purchased some tanks and equipment from you and have imagined us to be at least moderately favorable to each other, even if only as a customer.

Is see your point. Well, if Germany goes to war, it's unlikely that Cassanos will just stand by. Besides, some of its transport capacity is needed. But we could have a fighting force composed almost entirely from Germans and Balts, if that's okay for you (maybe the Cassanotians are still wary of Kiev right now).

Anyway, I think we could explain Angloquinntonian restraint by pointing out that the continental Europeans have been building up a capability for small scale (as of now) expeditions like this and want to be more of a global player.

/EDIT: As for the split, well, GER/CAS could move slightly away from the USQ by selling military technology to Spyr (you asked about that a looong while ago), but this would depend on Spyr's stance in the upcoming USAR crisis.

[Beth Gellert]

My proposed role sounds okay to me. Though the BDR is attempting to enhance its international and indeed intercontinental capacities, only limited military progress has been made so far, such as with the deployment of a frigate class with a 4,000nm independent range, which are actually based on patrol corvettes. Due to the possibility of Kyiv and Rome invading over land, Akink can't strategically afford to send whole divisions overseas, so doesn't even plan to develop the capability.

Deletedeletedelete. Actually, I'll save these requests for the IC thread

[Cassanos]

Ah, well, I've planned on nothing more than 2-4 (mostly light) brigades (with my rather limited sealift capacities...), and such light units are useful, but not essential to fend off armoured columns.
Besides, I suppose that the effort needed to protect Guinea from the USAR should not be too much for Germany . But the Soviets thought the same in Afghanistan and the Americans made the mistake in Vietnam. Unfortunately, both didn't happen in AMW.

[Spyr]

That's a scary thought, isn't it? A half-dozen great powers, armed to the teeth, and not having learned the lesson that even the big kids on the block can lose to a bunch of little guys with enough determination...

[Somewhereistonia]

There was almost one but that crazy dictator decided to go and cry instead.

[Cassanos]

BTW, which threads are considered canon now?

TSoA is out, but the Baltics crisis probably happened.

[Gurguvungunit]

Hmm, seems like I've been away too long. Also, what's with these Evony ads? I can't tell if it's porn or a videogame.

Um, Britain's general policy towards Africa, I think, would be to "view with alarm" and waffle about while not really doing anything. If Germany is content to send its sons to die, that's all well and good. But they can jolly well do it without us, what ho. You know, that sort of thing. I'm not sure how something like this would really split NATO, unless either Quinn or I went a little nuts and supported the USAR against our own clear interests. I'm generally in favor of just letting this all play out, and seeing where it goes. If I see the opportunity to disagree with Quinn on something major (when he gets back, of course) I can take it, but I don't want to pre-plan the RP too much.

[Cassanos]

Well, I think that the possible splitting of NATO has to be a long-time development, and I'm pretty sure that it has to originate between Britain and the USQ, because Germany's and Cassanos' interests are rather continental and not like to clash (if I don't pull a Fleur with either, which is unlikely).

As for the RP, Germany, the Baltics and to a lesser degree Cassanos have developed such a nice expeditionary capability and probably want to show that they can intervene overseas on their own.
But, ah, should we need to conquer a major airport and cannot simply land in Conakry, uh, you know, with you having all these nice bases in Egypt and Gibraltar, er, we might need to put some, uh, aircraft there after all... Yeah, well.

[Somewhereistonia]

Some supporting fire would be helpful but I think rp wise it would be better for the Baltic to do it without Britain or the USQ. If the war is seen as a success it is likely to act as a deterrent to Rome and Kiev as it shows a high capability of armed forces. This is good for Germany/Cassanos as well as the Baltic.

Also, I forgot I'm not called Somewhereistonia in AMW, the post is now edited.

[Somewhereistonia]

Ok, now the main parties are agreed (at least in principle) to this I will raise it here for approval (as it involves an npc).

The idea is, India (controlled by Spiz) gets attacked by terrorists of some sort. Spiz then blames Aden (which used to fall under the governance of India) and goes to invade.

The Baltic and Cassanos/Germany, eager to prove their worth and "aid world peace" send troops to fight alongside India (an ally through Britain).

The people of Yemen/terrorists are supported by BG which draws more troops from India, thus allowing the princely states to kick off as previously planned.

When things calm down a bit; Yemen (or at least the majority) becomes a colony of the Baltic as before with Guinea.

As this is a bit more invovled with British affairs it might help stir up the USQ/Britain thing more than the Africa one would.

Whilst this is a bit more of an NPC invasion than the Guinea idea it does have several advantages.

1. Yemen is fairly unlikely to be claimed, whilst someone could claim Oman or Arabia and then be able to get going more quickly. It helps to open the middle east a bit.

2. This is going to be a much bigger deal for Britain as it isn't far from Sudan and involves India.

3. It helps to kick off Spiz's civil war to get some action going.

4. It's a war! No more stand offs, we get some actual fighting!

[Cassanos]

I approve.

1. Yemen is fairly unlikely to be claimed, whilst someone could claim Oman or Arabia and then be able to get going more quickly. It helps to open the middle east a bit.
True.

2. This is going to be a much bigger deal for Britain as it isn't far from Sudan and involves India.
The same. The general area is much more interesting because it at least touches SOME sphere of interest.

3. It helps to kick off Spiz's civil war to get some action going.
For which we've been waiting for some time now, and there are still Tamils waiting to unleash their terrible fighting for.

4. It's a war! No more stand offs, we get some actual fighting!
Goodness, YES...

(I'm bold.)

Therefore, signed.

[Gurguvungunit]

I'm for it, although I'll have to see how things develop before I can say one way or the other how involved Britain would get. My current feeling is that so long as things stayed relatively local, Britain wouldn't feel the need to get involved and you lot could have your brushfire war.

[Spyr]

I'm a bit nervous about returning to use of NPC states in AMW roleplay... its a slippery slope, and while the proposed roleplay seems a worthwhile contribution, so did many NPC-focused RPs in AMW's past.

In addition to sheer number of NPCs involved in roleplay, a major problem with their use in AMW's previous incarnation was disagreement over the nature of such states... in one example, the Philippines were viewed by Roycelandia as a destitute country whose people were overjoyed at the prospect of imperial annexation, while BG saw the same prospect associated with a corrupt government and driving the people into the arms of a large leftist insurgency... everyone, myself included, had their own view of the Philippines and other NPCs involved in RP, how their institutions worked, how their people would react to events, and when one read through roleplay threads it became somewhat disconcerting, as while everyone seemed to be talking about the same geographic area their descriptions of its society were simply incompatible. As one might guess, this resulted in long stalls and heated OOC arguments which were rarely resolved. They couldn't be, really... I still feel my own perspective on various NPC states was the correct one, based on the facts available to us, but others had access to the same information and came to their own conclusions. Particularly when the interests of their states had gotten involved, players were rarely convinced to change their opinions on a given NPC. A very messy situation overall, and one I'd like to avoid at all costs in post-rebirth AMW.

If you are going to start an RP involving Yemen/Aden, I'd like to see the details of the country and its people hashed out well before everyone gets deep into roleplay there, both in terms of factbook-style data and to answer questions over popular sentiment towards various forces/movements within its borders.

[Somewhereistonia]

Well the idea is that BG would rp as the people of Yemen during the war, this will help give them a character that is hard to argue with but generally the people are going to be a bit like present day Somalia although maybe not quite as violent. Lots of sects trying to become dominant and infighting before the foreigners arrive (this allows one sect to house the terrorists supposedly to blame). The demographics i think would be almost identical to real life Yemen with Sunni and Shia groups making up the majority of the population. I would rp it as being generally cautious at best over our arrival in the nation, seeing us as oppressors and being very hard (and expensive) to control. Eventually we would look to play the factions off each other to stop them killing us whilst sending colonists to the "new land" (essentially making up the population loss from the war). The growth from this would (hopefully) slowly generate some level of delicate peace.

Because this is to become a colony afterwards it will not give a new player an unwanted history if they took it. This is essentially a new claim rather than an NPC invasion as BG is playing the part of the people to begin with. I will look into producing a bit of a factbook for it with Spiz and BG to make sure we all start on the same page. It would be easier for me if the rping for this wasn't to start quite yet anyway.

I understand your concerns but I intend to work closely with BG and Spiz over this so I don't think this will be quite the same problem that it appeared before. This also isn't the start of a huge empire build on my part, the Baltic would have major problems in affording to keep this colony as it is. Any more questions/concerns?

[CCA1]

Speaking of the AMW past, how did the Holy League / Progressive war turn out in our current incarnation? Were WMD still used in Africa, and is the whole place still a hosed warzone?

-Tias