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by Ainin » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:27 am
by Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:32 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:I firmly believe that the movies are a sacred art. They truly are a highest form of art. Without movies, our lives would be crushing, empty, and cold.
With that said, when I pay to watch a movie in a theatre, I'm not just paying for the benefit to be there... I'm paying for the complete experience. To truly appreciate the big screen, you have to fully give yourself over to the movie... remove yourself from all distractions and to try and really feel and connect with what you're seeing and hearing.
Yet out of the seven out of ten times I've gone to the movies in the past few months, I've always been unpleasantly disturbed at some point: bawling children, cell phone business calls, chit-chat next to me, people walking into the theatre late and then talking...
When you walk into a church, a cemetery, or a library... there is a firm expectation of silence, solemnity, and respect. It is a code of honour to respect the sacred values that these institutions represent. The film theatre, is one such institution, yet for some reason it doesn't often command the same deference or the same respect.
People are truly inconsiderate when they text away, talk loudly, or bring screaming children into these hallowed grounds. Those who truly appreciate the movies have paid good money to experience a part of their soul and a vision of true artistry. It is unfair that others should get to carelessly, thoughtlessly, and negligently (or worse, intentionally) disrupt this experience.
There needs to be consequences to deter such behaviour.
I believe it is time for the government and the theatres to work together to protect the rights of movie-goers.
So NSG, what should we do about this problem?
_____
Since there is apparently no common law duty of care towards fellow movie-goers (I couldn't find a Canadian case even in nuisance where a private action succeeded related to modern movie theatres), we should create a statutory duty of care. From this moment on... ALL movie-goers owe each other a statutory duty of care to NOT disrupt the film-going experience. If anyone breaches this, the statute should allow a private right of action with high punitive damage awards.
However, it can be expensive or time-consuming for individual plaintiffs to bring forward these types of cases, so clearly... we can't leave it all to civil liability and private suits.
We need broad enforcement powers.
Movie theatres are after all, mostly privately owned and a very non-intrusive way for the government to deal with this is to encourage and incentivize private actors to enforce this policy. I suggest tax credits, retirement benefits, and other benefits packages to cinemas that take extra action to lay down and enforce internal regulations (within reason) to protect movie-goers from getting interfered with. I expect this will have all the threatres throughout the country implementing changes on their own volition in a race to get these benefits and protect the sacred art.
Finally, there should be state-imposed consequences. In the event that a private cinema has lax enforcement mechanisms and no one is willing to launch a private right of action... there will be a regime of regulatory and criminal penalties. The Criminal Code should be amended to include a new offence: Disturbance of the Sacred Peace (the penalty I suggest, should be up to 100,000 Canadian Dollars and 14 months of imprisonment). However, the elements in a Criminal Code provision can be hard to enforce because they often require proof of intention, which is why there should be a counterpart in the non-criminal regulations imposing regulatory fines (I would suggest, up to several thousand Canadian dollars). With this in place, a concerned citizen doesn't have to burden himself with a lawsuit or rely on the goodwill of the guardians of the cinema to enforce his rights, he can simply exit the cinema and call the relevant authorities.
I believe this will solve the problem. Its a very carefully designed three pronged attempt to solve the problem. To reiterate: 1) a statutory duty of care in the cinemas to be enforced by private lawsuits 2) a benefit package to encourage self-policing in the cinemas 3) Criminal and regulatory penalties against offenders.
____
So this is my suggestion.
However, I understand there are different points of view and different solutions that others could suggest.
What do you think?
Have you ever been interrupted while in a theatre?1 Do you think this is a serious problem?2 What do you suggest we do about it?3
What should be done about this problem NSG?
Infected Mushroom wrote:Prezelly wrote:It wouldn't, you could do that, but others in the theater would be upset and ask to remove you, given enough support they could. Its not really a breach of contract, the theater cant be responsible for what people do when they watch the movie
It's not just a contract to let you see the movie. It's also a contract to provide a certain atmosphere for you to be able to enjoy the movie.
by United Kingdom of Kent » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:48 am
by Infected Mushroom » Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:55 am
Ainin wrote:If you want to watch movies in silence, buy a projector and a tablecloth and project it yourself. When you buy a movie ticket, you're buying a service as-is. If the cinema operator doesn't care about sound in his theatre, why should you? It's his property, and he has no obligation to make it perfect (which nobody except you cares about by the way).
And criminalising being noisy in a cinema is unconstitutional under the doctrine of peace, order and good government, because a law banning making sounds in a theatre does none of the three. It's not conductive to public peace, it doesn't maintain public order, and it's sure as hell not good governance to make coughing illegal.
by Infected Mushroom » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:07 am
Lordieth wrote:Infected Mushroom wrote:
I don't see it as the government encroaching (ex putting additional costs on the cinemas), in fact, it would reward certain actions by cinema-owners but it actually doesn't have the power under this regime to fine or imprison cinema owners for not taking the steps.
So this would be different from some variants of environmental legislation. In that area, companies can be fined and in some cases imprisoned for violating environmental laws and regulations. Here, the regulation and penalties are against the consumers (those who misbehave). Only a carrot (no stick) is used with respect to the private actors. They are rewarded for taking certain steps, but not otherwise penalised.
The problem with leaving it to the private actors alone (leaving it to the cinemas) is that there are severe limits within the law (unless it is changed) as to what they can actually do.
For example, if they try to physically remove a movie-goer without calling the authorities, that could lead to a lawsuit in battery or assault. If they lay down rules that are too stringent, they may overstep what is allowed by the licensing regime or step unto Charter rights territory.
A much more fail-safe approach is to limit the role of the cinema as indirect enforcers. They would be encouraged to warn viewers about the new laws and encouraged to report offenders while doing non-intrusive things to enforce the regulations, but they themselves would play a secondary role to the government with respect to direct enforcement.
This way, the theatre owners wouldn't expose themselves to potential litigation.
I do understand your argument, and the limitations of what private entities can and cannot enforce, however I think the sad irony is, is that increasing powers that allows cinemas to impose tougher actions on patrons could lead to an increase in disturbances, or at the very least a reluctance for cinema goers to attend in fear of an over-zealous cinema imposing fines on people for an accidental cough or sneeze.
I'm all for quieter cinemas, but I'm not sure this is the best way to deal with it.
by Neo ORB » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:26 am
Infected Mushroom wrote:I firmly believe that the movies are a sacred art. They truly are a highest form of art. Without movies, our lives would be crushing, empty, and cold.
With that said, when I pay to watch a movie in a theatre, I'm not just paying for the benefit to be there... I'm paying for the complete experience. To truly appreciate the big screen, you have to fully give yourself over to the movie... remove yourself from all distractions and to try and really feel and connect with what you're seeing and hearing.
Yet out of the seven out of ten times I've gone to the movies in the past few months, I've always been unpleasantly disturbed at some point: bawling children, cell phone business calls, chit-chat next to me, people walking into the theatre late and then talking...
When you walk into a church, a cemetery, or a library... there is a firm expectation of silence, solemnity, and respect. It is a code of honour to respect the sacred values that these institutions represent. The film theatre, is one such institution, yet for some reason it doesn't often command the same deference or the same respect.
People are truly inconsiderate when they text away, talk loudly, or bring screaming children into these hallowed grounds. Those who truly appreciate the movies have paid good money to experience a part of their soul and a vision of true artistry. It is unfair that others should get to carelessly, thoughtlessly, and negligently (or worse, intentionally) disrupt this experience.
There needs to be consequences to deter such behaviour.
I believe it is time for the government and the theatres to work together to protect the rights of movie-goers.
So NSG, what should we do about this problem?
_____
Since there is apparently no common law duty of care towards fellow movie-goers (I couldn't find a Canadian case even in nuisance where a private action succeeded related to modern movie theatres), we should create a statutory duty of care. From this moment on... ALL movie-goers owe each other a statutory duty of care to NOT disrupt the film-going experience. If anyone breaches this, the statute should allow a private right of action with high punitive damage awards.
However, it can be expensive or time-consuming for individual plaintiffs to bring forward these types of cases, so clearly... we can't leave it all to civil liability and private suits.
We need broad enforcement powers.
Movie theatres are after all, mostly privately owned and a very non-intrusive way for the government to deal with this is to encourage and incentivize private actors to enforce this policy. I suggest tax credits, retirement benefits, and other benefits packages to cinemas that take extra action to lay down and enforce internal regulations (within reason) to protect movie-goers from getting interfered with. I expect this will have all the threatres throughout the country implementing changes on their own volition in a race to get these benefits and protect the sacred art.
Finally, there should be state-imposed consequences. In the event that a private cinema has lax enforcement mechanisms and no one is willing to launch a private right of action... there will be a regime of regulatory and criminal penalties. The Criminal Code should be amended to include a new offence: Disturbance of the Sacred Peace (the penalty I suggest, should be up to 100,000 Canadian Dollars and 14 months of imprisonment). However, the elements in a Criminal Code provision can be hard to enforce because they often require proof of intention, which is why there should be a counterpart in the non-criminal regulations imposing regulatory fines (I would suggest, up to several thousand Canadian dollars). With this in place, a concerned citizen doesn't have to burden himself with a lawsuit or rely on the goodwill of the guardians of the cinema to enforce his rights, he can simply exit the cinema and call the relevant authorities.
I believe this will solve the problem. Its a very carefully designed three pronged attempt to solve the problem. To reiterate: 1) a statutory duty of care in the cinemas to be enforced by private lawsuits 2) a benefit package to encourage self-policing in the cinemas 3) Criminal and regulatory penalties against offenders.
____
So this is my suggestion.
However, I understand there are different points of view and different solutions that others could suggest.
What do you think?
Have you ever been interrupted while in a theatre? Do you think this is a serious problem? What do you suggest we do about it?
What should be done about this problem NSG?
by The Nihilistic view » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:27 am
by New Werpland » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:40 am
by Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:50 am
The Nihilistic view wrote:Most stupid thing I have heard all week. What's next? Imprisonment for making noise whilst turning the pages of a newspaper on a train? Eating a crisp? Christ.
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:55 am
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by New Frenco Empire » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:57 am
Bezkoshtovnya wrote:We are advocating making noise or other distractions in a movie theater to be criminal now? AND punishable by up to $100,000?
Are we going to arrest dog owners for having their pets bark at night too? Or fine students and their families for being disruptive in university or other schools?
Most absurd thing I have read in a while.
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:58 am
New Frenco Empire wrote:Bezkoshtovnya wrote:We are advocating making noise or other distractions in a movie theater to be criminal now? AND punishable by up to $100,000?
Are we going to arrest dog owners for having their pets bark at night too? Or fine students and their families for being disruptive in university or other schools?
Most absurd thing I have read in a while.
Might want to take back the dog bit. IM supports puppy genocide because a dog chased him once or something.
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Purpelia » Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:59 am
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 pm
Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by Need a Name » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:05 pm
by Bezkoshtovnya » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:06 pm
Need a name wrote:I hate to be the one who pulls this card but, aren't there starving kids we should worry about?
Dante Alighieri wrote:There is no greater sorrow than to recall happiness in times of misery
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.
by The Nihilistic view » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:07 pm
Dyakovo wrote:The Nihilistic view wrote:Most stupid thing I have heard all week. What's next? Imprisonment for making noise whilst turning the pages of a newspaper on a train? Eating a crisp? Christ.
Oh, come on... It's no worse than his suggestion that dogs should be banned...
by New Frenco Empire » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:08 pm
Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.
Butballs wrote:Regulation is censorship, and we're censored quite enough already.
by Dyakovo » Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:12 pm
Bezkoshtovnya wrote:Purpelia wrote:I think that there should be laws in place to ensure people who make disturbances are fined or banned from the movie theater. It's as simple as that.
And the contemporary solution of simply having the usher escort them out is not good enough, why? Why do fines and such other things need to be brought into it?
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:23 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Romalae » Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:32 pm
by Blakullar » Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:17 pm
Butballs wrote:Regulation is censorship, and we're censored quite enough already.
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