Antisemitism on rise across Europe, how do we combat it?

[Olerand]

Or you ban them. And when they speak out, you ship them to jail. If they speak out "mildly", you fine them for a couple of dozens of thousands of Euros.

I believe this to be equally sad and pathetic. You can't ban one form of speech because you don't like, and permit another that supports your views. This is why people are growing discontent with supposedly "democratic" governments in Europe. They say they support freedom of speech and expression, but the moment those freedoms begin to contradict their views, they move to curb them. You can't brag about being a free society that then turns around and aggressively censors those who do not support your way of thinking. Such hypocrisy is anathema to the very views European nations attempt to maintain. You have the right to disagree with someone's opinion as much as you have a right to express one. But you don't get to cherry-pick what a person can and cannot say based on your own biased opinion. As I already said, such a thought on jailing people because they are expressing their views regardless of the content, is pathetic in and of itself, and has been the source of many uprisings throughout history. The moment you start to censor or punish others who's views you dislike, then you start to become as bad, if not worse, than those you oppose. Regarding said freedoms, you either go the whole way or you don't go at all. You can't have both.

No, we definitely can. When your speech stigmatizes a certain people and calls for their punishment, it is harmful to society and not conducive to any debate; and it can, and should be, banned.

[Atlanticatia]

There's a fine balance between protecting free speech and protecting minority groups. I think it is important to do both. Everyone should be able to speak freely, with necessary constraints to protect minority groups from incitement of violence/hatred, so that everyone can feel safe and included in society.

If someone says "Put the Jews in the gas chambers, those dirty bankers!" then they should definitely face some sort of punishment. Something like that should not be protected speech.

[Terra Sector Union]

Seems like Europe hasn't quite learned from history, or they really want to repeat it. I'm not saying anti-semitism equals holocaust, I'm just saying genocide starts with prejudice and bigotry.

[Baltenstein]

I literally just gave you sourced material documenting the rise of European antisemitism.

...and I am glad it was not from Dailymail. Such link would be ignored.

Greece is socially, politically and economically collapsed country, and perhaps there will be even civil war. As I said, that's entirely local thing. And I won't say something so serious like 'Return of antisemitist Europe', because isolated, different, local things happened.

The economic situation is pretty bad, the distrust in the political elites is at an all-times low, but no, Greece is no Syria, as the upcoming national elections will show.

[Herargon]

Congrats on losing any shred of credibility.

“History is written by the victors.” - Winston Churchill

Well basically we can't do anything about it. I mean sure we can be against it, but can we stop it? Not at all, it's due to the fact that you can't force people to like others just because it's 'immoral' or whatever you want to call it. There are always going to be these types of people no matter what we do, it's freedom of speech and people are going to have to deal with it because if you felt this way you wouldn't want your right to freedom of speech would you?

This is a good statement. We really can't deny people the right of freedom of speech, even if we don't like what they're saying. If we deny Nazis their rights to criticize the Jews, then it will only start more and more limitations on speech until you can get jailed/fined for the simplest thing.

Congrats for becoming a flaming and flamebaiting moron. Visit Auschwitz, see the deaths yourselves. If you still won't believe it, have a happy time hanging around with other racistic idiots.

[Zakuvia]

Permit my pragmatic logic, but exactly how much wealth is actually held in Europe by self-described Jews? Realistically, how much as a percentage do people of the faith control?

I have no commentary on the Jewish people in either direction. I grew up in a part of the world that was either Baptist or Roman Catholic, with nobody who made any sort of commentary about them. I'm also intelligent enough to know not to outright hate or mistrust people for that reason. But that also shields me from being afraid of asking difficult questions, that's why I'm asking for facts instead of moralizing.

What do they own, politicall and economically, and is there any kind of pattern, either extant or emerging?

By the way...I think the Jews are in control of the Israeli government...or am I just wearing my tinfoil yarmulke too loose?

[Herargon]

Permit my pragmatic logic, but exactly how much wealth is actually held in Europe by self-described Jews? Realistically, how much as a percentage do people of the faith control?

I have no commentary on the Jewish people in either direction. I grew up in a part of the world that was either Baptist or Roman Catholic, with nobody who made any sort of commentary about them. I'm also intelligent enough to know not to outright hate or mistrust people for that reason. But that also shields me from being afraid of asking difficult questions, that's why I'm asking for facts instead of moralizing.

What do they own, politicall and economically, and is there any kind of pattern, either extant or emerging?

By the way...I think the Jews are in control of the Israeli government...or am I just wearing my tinfoil yarmulke too loose?

Sharpen your tinfoil hat

Jk, I think that that was an interesting opinion most certainly.

[Atlanticatia]

Permit my pragmatic logic, but exactly how much wealth is actually held in Europe by self-described Jews? Realistically, how much as a percentage do people of the faith control?

I have no commentary on the Jewish people in either direction. I grew up in a part of the world that was either Baptist or Roman Catholic, with nobody who made any sort of commentary about them. I'm also intelligent enough to know not to outright hate or mistrust people for that reason. But that also shields me from being afraid of asking difficult questions, that's why I'm asking for facts instead of moralizing.

What do they own, politicall and economically, and is there any kind of pattern, either extant or emerging?

By the way...I think the Jews are in control of the Israeli government...or am I just wearing my tinfoil yarmulke too loose?

I'm not sure how that should be relevant at all, justify any anti-semitic opinions, nor affect anyone's opinions of Jews.

(just saying)

[Delantine]

Sources:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28853221
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis
With the increase of attacks and hate against Jewish people in Europe it is important that we crack down on Neo Nazi organizations

Because the Soviets were innocent of anti-semitism, yes?

[Lordieth]

Israeli government does not equal the Jewish people, but the Israeli government wants a Jewish state.

According to Wikipedia;

It is the world's only Jewish-majority state; 6,110,600 citizens, or 75.3% of Israelis, are designated as Jewish

While this is no excuse for Antisemitism, it seems to me, what people dislike, is the Israeli government. The problem is, people seem to have a difficult time separating the two.

[Ethel mermania]

Israeli government does not equal the Jewish people, but the Israeli government wants a Jewish state.

According to Wikipedia;

It is the world's only Jewish-majority state; 6,110,600 citizens, or 75.3% of Israelis, are designated as Jewish

While this is no excuse for Antisemitism, it seems to me, what people dislike, is the Israeli government. The problem is, people seem to have a difficult time separating the two.

Not really, 90% of the time hating the Israelies is just a Cover for hating jews. People who legitimately dislike the Israeli govt, can separate their views.

From a further religious point, "the promised land" is an integral part of jewishness, it is the lord's part of the bargain.

[Nuwe Suid Afrika]

Congrats for becoming a flaming and flamebaiting moron. Visit Auschwitz, see the deaths yourselves. If you still won't believe it, have a happy time hanging around with other racistic idiots.

The alleged deaths were over 60 years ago, so I won't be able to witness them for myself.

Permit my pragmatic logic, but exactly how much wealth is actually held in Europe by self-described Jews? Realistically, how much as a percentage do people of the faith control?

I have no commentary on the Jewish people in either direction. I grew up in a part of the world that was either Baptist or Roman Catholic, with nobody who made any sort of commentary about them. I'm also intelligent enough to know not to outright hate or mistrust people for that reason. But that also shields me from being afraid of asking difficult questions, that's why I'm asking for facts instead of moralizing.

What do they own, politicall and economically, and is there any kind of pattern, either extant or emerging?

By the way...I think the Jews are in control of the Israeli government...or am I just wearing my tinfoil yarmulke too loose?

I'm sure that the economic distribution between the non-jewish people and the jewish people of Europe is about the same. There's no way to really tell unless there's a survey conducted on this sort of thing.

[Herargon]

Congrats for becoming a flaming and flamebaiting moron. Visit Auschwitz, see the deaths yourselves. If you still won't believe it, have a happy time hanging around with other racistic idiots.

The alleged deaths were over 60 years ago, so I won't be able to witness them for myself.

Permit my pragmatic logic, but exactly how much wealth is actually held in Europe by self-described Jews? Realistically, how much as a percentage do people of the faith control?

I have no commentary on the Jewish people in either direction. I grew up in a part of the world that was either Baptist or Roman Catholic, with nobody who made any sort of commentary about them. I'm also intelligent enough to know not to outright hate or mistrust people for that reason. But that also shields me from being afraid of asking difficult questions, that's why I'm asking for facts instead of moralizing.

What do they own, politicall and economically, and is there any kind of pattern, either extant or emerging?

By the way...I think the Jews are in control of the Israeli government...or am I just wearing my tinfoil yarmulke too loose?

I'm sure that the economic distribution between the non-jewish people and the jewish people of Europe is about the same. There's no way to really tell unless there's a survey conducted on this sort of thing.

About that first one, yes, you can. Go to the mass graves, the camps, and see their rings and hairs. You can witness it that way.

[MERIZoC]

Israeli government does not equal the Jewish people, but the Israeli government wants a Jewish state.

According to Wikipedia;

It is the world's only Jewish-majority state; 6,110,600 citizens, or 75.3% of Israelis, are designated as Jewish

While this is no excuse for Antisemitism, it seems to me, what people dislike, is the Israeli government. The problem is, people seem to have a difficult time separating the two.

Indeed. Or maybe they don't have a hard time doing it, and it just suits their interests to say that anyone who criticizes Israel is a flaming anti-semite.

[Socialist Tera]

Sources:
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28853221
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ince-nazis
With the increase of attacks and hate against Jewish people in Europe it is important that we crack down on Neo Nazi organizations

Because the Soviets were innocent of anti-semitism, yes?

Irrelevant but still to prove you wrong:
In answer to your inquiry: National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism. Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism. In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.
J. Stalin "Anti-Semitism: Reply to an Inquiry of the Jewish News Agency in the United States" dated January 12, 1931
Now, let's stay on topic without attacking the OP's political stance.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Israeli government does not equal the Jewish people, but the Israeli government wants a Jewish state.

According to Wikipedia;



While this is no excuse for Antisemitism, it seems to me, what people dislike, is the Israeli government. The problem is, people seem to have a difficult time separating the two.

Not really, 90% of the time hating the Israelies is just a Cover for hating jews. People who legitimately dislike the Israeli govt, can separate their views.

From a further religious point, "the promised land" is an integral part of jewishness, it is the lord's part of the bargain.

I mean, I dislike the Israeli Government, but I wish no harm to the people inhabiting Israel.

I just wish they already came with a God damn solution to the problem with Palestine already that benefits both peoples instead of permawar.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

There is nothing wrong with anti semitism? Excuse me? In my opinion, something is wrong with a irrational, bigoted viewpoint that killed millions. Jesus Christ.

I for one don't believe that Hitler killed millions of Jews.

Holocaust Denialism, how cute.

It's impressive how people can believe bullshit when most historians have already agreed upon the Holocaust figures except some wacko organization in America that nobody takes seriously.

If you think "history is written by the victors" then you've missed out on 20th century approaches to historical studies.

[Quintium]

There is no place for the far right or neofascism in a progressive 21st century Europe.

Did we ever ask for this progressivism, though? Did we ask to have parts of our countries occupied by millions of people from what are literally the world's most superstitious, economically lethargic and socially conservative places in the world under the guise of tolerance and diversity? Did we ask to get neighbours who slaughter goats in their living rooms for the glory of a man who died in the year 632? Did we ask for shopping centres full of men without jobs who scream at our women and try to steal wallets and phones from our men? Did we ask for this ghastly social justice ideology that's festering in Europe now, with us being asked to start being more 'tolerant' to those who steal from us, harrass us and save no effort telling us what'll happen when they're in charge?

I'm done crawling, whether that's before Jews or Muslims or Gypsies or European Union bureaucrats.

[Fortschritte]

There is no place for the far right or neofascism in a progressive 21st century Europe.

Did we ever ask for this progressivism, though? Did we ask to have parts of our countries occupied by millions of people from what are literally the world's most superstitious, economically lethargic and socially conservative places in the world under the guise of tolerance and diversity? Did we ask to get neighbours who slaughter goats in their living rooms for the glory of a man who died in the year 632? Did we ask for shopping centres full of men without jobs who scream at our women and try to steal wallets and phones from our men? Did we ask for this ghastly social justice ideology that's festering in Europe now, with us being asked to start being more 'tolerant' to those who steal from us, harrass us and save no effort telling us what'll happen when they're in charge?

I'm done crawling, whether that's before Jews or Muslims or Gypsies or European Union bureaucrats.

Y'know, have you ever considered the fact that people are moving from those countries to Europe because they don't want to deal with economic issues, social conservatism, and fundamentalism? I've never seen a post from you that isn't based entirely out of irrational fear. It seems to me that you have no real reasons to dislike Islamic immigration, you're just frightened. And, while you criticize them for being socially conservative and "intolerant", it screams hypocrisy, since you've proven to be extremely socially conservative and almost as fundamentalist and intolerant as radical Islamists.

[Olerand]

Y'know, have you ever considered the fact that people are moving from those countries to Europe because they don't want to deal with economic issues, social conservatism, and fundamentalism? I've never seen a post from you that isn't based entirely out of irrational fear. It seems to me that you have no real reasons to dislike Islamic immigration, you're just frightened. And, while you criticize them for being socially conservative and "intolerant", it screams hypocrisy, since you've proven to be extremely socially conservative and almost as fundamentalist and intolerant as radical Islamists.

That argument could be better swallowed if immigrants are integrating in Europe today. But as the entire department of Seine-Saint-Denis, or the north side of Marseille etc. have shown, they haven't.

Young Algerians in France refer to Algeria, a nation that they have either never visited, or only been to on vacation, as the "bled", or homeland.

[Fortschritte]

Y'know, have you ever considered the fact that people are moving from those countries to Europe because they don't want to deal with economic issues, social conservatism, and fundamentalism? I've never seen a post from you that isn't based entirely out of irrational fear. It seems to me that you have no real reasons to dislike Islamic immigration, you're just frightened. And, while you criticize them for being socially conservative and "intolerant", it screams hypocrisy, since you've proven to be extremely socially conservative and almost as fundamentalist and intolerant as radical Islamists.

That argument could be better swallowed if immigrants are integrating in Europe today. But as the entire department of Seine-Saint-Denis, or the north side of Marseille etc. have shown, they haven't.

Young Algerians in France refer to Algeria, a nation that they have either never visited, or only been to on vacation, as the "bled", or homeland.

You constantly claim that they're not integrating, yet you never back up your claims. While some immigrants arguably don't integrate, their numbers are small compared to those who do.

[Greater Weselton]

It is a political statement they are making.

So when it's killing one person, it's inciting murder.
When it's killing an entire race, it's just politics?

That is correct. I am not saying the action is good. I am just a liberty loving American.

[Neutraligon]

The alleged deaths were over 60 years ago, so I won't be able to witness them for myself.



I'm sure that the economic distribution between the non-jewish people and the jewish people of Europe is about the same. There's no way to really tell unless there's a survey conducted on this sort of thing.

About that first one, yes, you can. Go to the mass graves, the camps, and see their rings and hairs. You can witness it that way.

Or watch the videos (yes videos exist...taken by nazis for propaganda use), or ask the people who did survive what happened to those who didn't. Or look at the pictures.

[Olerand]

That argument could be better swallowed if immigrants are integrating in Europe today. But as the entire department of Seine-Saint-Denis, or the north side of Marseille etc. have shown, they haven't.

Young Algerians in France refer to Algeria, a nation that they have either never visited, or only been to on vacation, as the "bled", or homeland.

You constantly claim that they're not integrating, yet you never back up your claims. While some immigrants arguably don't integrate, their numbers are small compared to those who do.

Muslims in Britain have zero tolerance of homosexuality, says poll
The Muslim effect on immigration integration in France

Do you want a link to the recurring riots in French suburbs on Ramadan? We had a few just last summer. We have them every summer.

If you can read French, I'd encourage you to read this article from Le Monde, about the "comedian" Dieudonné M'bZala M'bala and the fractions in his widely popular, extremely antisemitic, homophobic, anti-American, and some claim anti-French movement in the banlieues.
http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2014/12/27/les-rebelles-de-la-secte-dieudonne_4546733_3224.html

Le Monde also ran another article about the successes of inter-European immigration. Your study strongly reflects those successes.

[The Tribe of Judah]

You don't combat antisemitism because you can't. You can't force a person to think a different way than that of which they have chosen. When you attempt to force them to think a different way, then it becomes brainwashing. There is no other way around it.

People don't just become antisemites, they see people who are already antisemites and who spew hate speech and fabricated propaganda against the Jews, which then makes them antisemetic. That's brainwashing.

But prosecuting people who incite genocide helps stop antisemitism spread so quickly. People, especially in poorer countries, always look for an easy answer to the many complex questions, and if there are lots of people out on the street suggesting it's all the Jews, it seems like a very appealing option to believe that, absolving oneself of responsibility and giving an easy solution. Get rid of the Jews.

So yes, we can and should combat antisemitism.

The Ukrainians lost eight million people in the Holodomor, but you don't see them demanding people fall over to weep for them and give them some kind of special attention. You don't see the same of the Armenians, or even the Chinese, who lost far more people, more than twenty million civilians, violently at the hands of a single nation than the Jews did in the 1930s and 1940s. Yet, you don't see the Chinese looking for pity and demanding entire nations acknowledge their suffering and treat them differently. The Jews are no more special that any one of the many dozens of ethnicities who lost millions of members because of war and genocide. I've never seen a group of people use an event that happened more than sixty years ago to justify their actions, nor try so hard to get everyone to know it happened than the Jews. Heck, antisemitism has become the catch-all phrase for people who don't agree with Jewish beliefs and actions. I mean, aren't the Arabs Semites too (in fact the largest group of Semites in the world)?

Firstly, the Holodomor was a tradgedy which caused the deaths of approximately 2-7 million through famine. It was not genocide, most countries around the world don't class it as such either. People of all creeds dying of lack of food is not comparable to the targeted extermination of 6-20 million Jews. Comparing the cold concrete reality of extermination to non-racially targeted tragedies where people died because of a bad government instead of racial persecution is ridiculous.

People die, get killed, and violence against entire groups of people happens. The Jews wanted their own homeland and now they have it. It was created for the primary reason posted. Europe was hostile to Jews, so the Jews moved to Israel (illegally and violently last I remember reading).

Jews have always been a minority in the middle east, and before the war or the Holocaust the Balfour declaration supported the creation of a Jewish homeland in 'Palestine' (renamed from Judea and Samaria by the Romans to try and erase Jewish claim to the land). This was being negotiated at the time of the start of the war, but world leaders thought it was a secondary priority, and before the war the proposed Israel was a lot larger than the post war boarders, incluyding the entire West Bank and parts of the East Bank of the Jordan River. So actually, Israel was not created because of the Holocaust. Had Israel been created prior to 1933, the Holocaust could have been a lot less devastating. And if you want to talk violence, how about the treatment of Jews in the surrounding Arab nations, as well as the violent riots against Jewish minorities in areas of Palestine.

If they don't like wants going on in Europe, why don't they just go to the nation they created specifically to counter that problem? Trying to force people to accept you only makes them hate you more.

"If Jews don't like being persecuted in the country which has been their home for generations, why don't they just leave?" is a disgusting argument and sets the precedent that if you have bigoted and racist views you can violently expel people from their homelands whilst retaining the moral high ground. Is your solution to growing antisemitism really just to expect European Jews to make Aliyah en masse?

Saying "it's the 21st century" means nothing. Its a date. Just because you jumped from 1999 to 2000 doesn't mean people are automatically going go through a system reset and have a life-changing experience that makes them like Jews. Just because you worship a certain god, lived in a certain land, and suffered through certain events doesn't make you any more special than the other seven billion people on the planet. A victim is a victim regardless of the action. Tragedy is tragedy, and trying to say "I went through far worse than you did" is pathetic. Acting like an insufferable brat who wants attention because of want happened six decades ago won't endear people to you.

Ahh I see, so antisemitic hate is justified because Jews feel their family members who died deserve to be remembered. Also, Holocaust survivors who talk about their experiences are reliving the most traumatic times of their lives every single day to try and educate the next generation and ensure nothing like that ever happens again - to Jews or other ethnic groups. They don't want pity or special treatment, they want remembrance and solidarity.

True victims look forward and move on, doing the best they can with their lives. Trying to force others to pity you is a waste of time and energy, and says far more about the victim's inability to let go of the past and move on that the person who refuses to have the past drag back into the present. The same way a rape victim doesn't dwell on their rape and tries to move on to more fulfilling goals, the same should be true of the Jews.

Oh joy, more idiotic non-comparisons. Why are you comparing systematic extermination to rape? But if you insist on the comparison, some rape victims who feel able to do start campaigns to raise awareness of rape, sometimes national or local campaigns, and in the case of someone I know, she lead a school assembly when I was in secondary school, it was very traumatic and distressing for her, but it really hit home.

There are nearly twenty million Jews alive today. Only 1% of them went through the Holocaust. The fact that most Holocaust survivors don't like speaking about the Holocaust or antisemitism in Europe and try to move on should serve as an example to those who haven't gone through the same thing.

Ah I see, so I suppose due to the lack of people alive today who went through it, remembrance of the soldiers who died in WW1 and WW2 is also something we should collectively 'get over'?

You don't like European antisemitism? Make your aliyah and go to Israel. That's why it's there. Want to demand 800 million people to treat you like your a special person? Tough. You can't have your cake and eat it too. That's not how the world works. It's harsh, but that's the reality, and you have to start living in it.

That is NOT why Israel exists, making Aliyah due to relentless persecution is a last resort, not a viable solution to racial persecution. Practically equivalent to telling persecuted Afro-Caribbean communities to go back to Africa. A pretty racist comment in itself.

Jews don't want special treatment, they want equal treatment, and looking at the statistics in many European countries Jews are looked down upon by the general population.