Atheism vs. Christianity

[The Universal World]

Honestly, I don't understand why there are even arguments between atheists and those who are religious. Atheists are the attackers of the argument, they demand physical evidence while religion is sheerly based off of faith. You cannot prove faith with something physical. Nor can you convince a bullheaded atheist who constantly attempting to prove a religious person (lets say Christian for example) wrong so he/she can feel better about him/herself and about his/her doubts everyday that they are attempting to cope with.

Because people do horribe things as a result of that faith-based approach to life. Atheism is not a view that can ever be construed as warranting murder, while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

[Benuty]

Because people do horribe things as a result of that faith-based approach to life. Atheism is not a view that can ever be construed as warranting murder, while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

Hardly, they have a different set of standards when it comes to their form of morality.

So the likelihood of some Atheist saying "fuck it let me stab my wife because I have no morality" seems pretty absurd to imply.

Of-course humans being...humans who knows what is bound to happen with people.

[Republica Independiente de Magallanes]

The people need to believe in something. Believing in your nation and working towards creating a better state for your community should be enough to know you are doing the right thing.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Because people do horribe things as a result of that faith-based approach to life. Atheism is not a view that can ever be construed as warranting murder, while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

From deuteronomy:
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Unless you're going to claim you've never disobeyed your parents, the bible calls for your death. That seems pretty immoral to me, and the system that condones this is not a good one to have.

[Menassa]

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

From deuteronomy:
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Unless you're going to claim you've never disobeyed your parents, the bible calls for your death. That seems pretty immoral to me, and the system that condones this is not a good one to have.

Wayward son...

[Neutraligon]

Because people do horribe things as a result of that faith-based approach to life. Atheism is not a view that can ever be construed as warranting murder, while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

Well, there were the crusades and the witch burnings. Today there are the abortion clinic bombings, normally based on some Christian ideology. Atheism makes no claims to morals, it does not ask any moral questions or give any answer to morals. For that you need to look into things like secular humanism or any one of the atheistic religions.

[Totus Plebeium]

Like what? Name one thing that Christians believe in that demands for murder? In my opinion, atheists tend to have more of a lack of morality so to speak. I'm not saying that all atheists don't have morals

From deuteronomy:
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Unless you're going to claim you've never disobeyed your parents, the bible calls for your death. That seems pretty immoral to me, and the system that condones this is not a good one to have.

Unless you are referring to this:

while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Deuteronomy are rules for Jews not Christians.

[Menassa]

From deuteronomy:
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Unless you're going to claim you've never disobeyed your parents, the bible calls for your death. That seems pretty immoral to me, and the system that condones this is not a good one to have.

Unless you are referring to this:

while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Deuteronomy are rules for Jews not Christians.

And that rule, for Jews is not applicable.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

From deuteronomy:
21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
21:19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21:21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Unless you're going to claim you've never disobeyed your parents, the bible calls for your death. That seems pretty immoral to me, and the system that condones this is not a good one to have.

Unless you are referring to this:

while the vast majority of religions make quite a few demands for murder.

Deuteronomy are rules for Jews not Christians.

Maybe you should actually read the bible.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

[Menassa]

Unless you are referring to this:

Deuteronomy are rules for Jews not Christians.

Maybe you should actually read the bible.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

No you.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
(Hebrews 8:13 NIV)

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
(Galatians 3:10-11 NIV)

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Maybe you should actually read the bible.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

No you.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
(Hebrews 8:13 NIV)

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
(Galatians 3:10-11 NIV)

So, everybody must follow this new covenant and its laws. And they must also not follow the laws or be cursed. (and also, they are cursed if they don't follow the laws).
That's quite a masterful clusterfuck of contradiction.

[Menassa]

No you.

By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
(Hebrews 8:13 NIV)

For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
(Galatians 3:10-11 NIV)

So, everybody must follow this new covenant and its laws. And they must also not follow the laws or be cursed. (and also, they are cursed if they don't follow the laws).
That's quite a masterful clusterfuck of contradiction.

Hmm, seems like you're seeing things that aren't there.

Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses... seems simple enough from those two tiny verses... maybe I can make it easier for you?

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

So, everybody must follow this new covenant and its laws. And they must also not follow the laws or be cursed. (and also, they are cursed if they don't follow the laws).
That's quite a masterful clusterfuck of contradiction.

Hmm, seems like you're seeing things that aren't there.

Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses... seems simple enough from those two tiny verses... maybe I can make it easier for you?

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

Orly?

“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

[Menassa]

Hmm, seems like you're seeing things that aren't there.

Christians are not to follow the Law of Moses... seems simple enough from those two tiny verses... maybe I can make it easier for you?

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

Orly?

“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

And since that is true:

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Orly?

“Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”

And since that is true:

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

So yes, you admit the contradiction. Damned if you do, cursed if you don't.

[Menassa]

And since that is true:

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God,

So yes, you admit the contradiction. Damned if you do, cursed if you don't.

“the righteous will live by faith.”

[The Cobalt Sky]

So yes, you admit the contradiction. Damned if you do, cursed if you don't.

“the righteous will live by faith.”

Even Ephesians 6:5?

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

So yes, you admit the contradiction. Damned if you do, cursed if you don't.

“the righteous will live by faith.”

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

I can do this all day. Until I need to sleep or eat etc.

[Menassa]

“the righteous will live by faith.”

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

I can do this all day. Until I need to sleep or eat etc.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (Romans 3:20)

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe (Romans 3:22)

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. (Galatians 3:22)

Don't count your eggs before they are lain.

“the righteous will live by faith.”

Even Ephesians 6:5?

Seems unrelated.

[The Cobalt Sky]

21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.

I can do this all day. Until I need to sleep or eat etc.

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (Romans 3:20)

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe (Romans 3:22)

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. (Galatians 3:22)

Don't count your eggs before they are lain.

Even Ephesians 6:5?

Seems unrelated.

No I mean that is not obsolete?

[Menassa]

Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. (Romans 3:20)

This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe (Romans 3:22)

But Scripture has locked up everything under the control of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. (Galatians 3:22)

Don't count your eggs before they are lain.


Seems unrelated.

No I mean that is not obsolete?

I don't know, I'm not Christian.

[Totus Plebeium]

Unless you are referring to this:

Deuteronomy are rules for Jews not Christians.

Maybe you should actually read the bible.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Actually i do read the bible. Clearly you do not, do you even 'Incident at Antioch' bro?

Galatians (2:11-14):

But when Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But after they came, he drew back for fear of the circumcision faction. And the other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Maybe you should actually read the bible.

For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

Actually i do read the bible. Clearly you do not, do you even Incident at Antioch bro?

Galatians (2:11-14):

But when Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But after they came, he drew back for fear of the circumcision faction. And the other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

Which is about hipocrisy, not who should follow laws. It's basically another let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
And:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commandsc and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

[Warpspace]

Anyone can promise stuff. Even Berlusconi can.

The point is: are we sure those promises are going to be kept? How do we know that?


That's not self-confidence. Is confidence in something you have no way of knowing for sure.


Have you measured your deity?

I know those promises will be kept because of Jesus' sacrifice to save the humankind.
A man with no self-confidence couldn't believe in god.
I don't need to measure. I trust.

We don't even know if a man by the name of Jesus Christ existed around the time of his stated birth, what he even did, or when he was born. The Bible itself was written (partially as it is a compilation of writings spanning centuries) almost over a century later by unverifiable hearsay. And Atheism isn't a lack of self confidence, it's a logical deduction. The problem about faith of any sort is that it requires belief instead of known fact. If something cannot be defended with a logical, scientific argument, there is not point holding such ideology in the first place.

Everything should always be backed up with evidence to support it. There is no reason to practice anything if it is incapable of defending or reinforcing its views with logical thought processes to deduce its validity. There is no credible evidence to support any religion. Therefore, there is no logical reason to practice any of them and waste your time on something that is almost certainly a falsehood.

By practicing any religion, you're just buying the Brooklyn Bridge.

It's also why as I view almost all religions save some Eastern ones (that aren't really superstitious) as inherently weak in nature. They're a security blanket created millennia ago by mankind to explain the world around him before science, and to prevent the realization of the raw, uncaring nature of the universe. Instead of nihilism and futility, religion by large preaches self righteousness and vanity, and typically leads to academic ignorance at times. The Church tells you that mankind is special, that you're unique and even for a long point of time, even defended the idea that the universe literally revolved around us. That an entity of supposedly infinite power made humanity in his image (ignoring how ludicrous that a genderless god-like entity is both genderless [as it is beyond sexual reproduction, gender has no meaning] and that it has a humanoid body) as his "chosen race" and stewards of the planet.

That view is so self centered and ludicrous I can't help but laugh.

Oh, and then there's the numerous faults and bullshit in Christianity, especially Catholicism. Like how several Saints are just re-purposed Pagan Gods to more easily assimilate European Pagans, how the Church changed the date of all its holidays to coincide with Pagan holidays and thus assimilate Pagans, or how the entire concept of Satan was quite likely a (successful) attempt by the Church to demonize one of the more prominent Pagan deities as something of an evil, despicable nature to be fought, thus making Pagans look "evil" themselves.

So especially during the Middle Ages, the Church was paving the way for what questionable corporations do when assimilating other businesses.

[Totus Plebeium]

Actually i do read the bible. Clearly you do not, do you even Incident at Antioch bro?

Galatians (2:11-14):

But when Cephas [Peter] came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned; for until certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But after they came, he drew back for fear of the circumcision faction. And the other Jews joined him in this hypocrisy, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not acting consistently with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?"

Which is about hipocrisy, not who should follow laws. It's basically another let he who has no sin cast the first stone.
And:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commandsc and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-19

And Jesus was speaking to the Jews not gentiles. Romans 10:4 "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes"
"Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God." (Rom. 7:4).
"But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter." (Rom. 7:6).

Of course Jesus hasn't abolished the Law as he said "i have come to fulfill them" he is the replacement for the Law. If he would have abolished the Law and the Prophets he rebukes his claim at being the Messiah and also rebukes the claim as to why he came in the first place. He had so people wouldn't have to follow the Law for the reason of following the Law. He is not claiming to keep following the Law otherwise his death would be meaningless, He, by not abolishing, is reaffirming his place as the Messiah in scripture (though debatable but not the topic in question)

Edit: Also relevant: "all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law." (Rom. 2:12).
"Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." (Rom. 3:19-20).
"For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.'" (Gal. 3:10).