Multi-Species Union Lobby [OOC 2.0, MSU Members & Observers]

[MSU Administrator]

The Multi-Species Union
Joining our hands in unity

Sign up here to become a member of the MSU!

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Welcome to the Multi-Species Union! The universe is a very diverse place, full of all kind of sentient life. Here we stand, as brothers and sisters; humans, anthros, ponies, and xenos (alien races) that you belong to. We shall help our fellow members in economic, peacekeeping, and social matters, and promote good will among the different species classes. Join us now, and help achieve unity in diversity amongst the sapient beings of the universe!

Yay! We have a new OOC thread! Here we discuss about everything that may or may not matter OOCly, as well as explain to newcomers on how this works. You can also notify everyone if you have posted in IC Roleplays.

Roleplays: Pax Concordia - MSU Banquet Congressional Chambers - Voting on Amendment I

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Official Flag of the Multi-Species Union

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The Manifesto of the Multi-Species Union

We the Nations of the Mult-Species Union Determined

• to use diplomacy as a means to achieve peace.
• to promote free trade and information to all member nations so long as it doesn't compromise their tech level integrity.
• to champion against discrimination of a nation based upon species, government leadership style or tech level.
• to defend all member nations, whether they are human, anthro, pony or the many others scattered across the universe.

have resolved to combine our efforts to accomplish these aims.

Excerpt from the Preamble of the MSU Charter

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Rules

• The NS Forum Rules apply here.
• This international organization is open to all those who apply.
• If you are not a member of this union, then do not spam.
• Absolutely no trolling.
• Arguments must be done in another forum. Just not here.
• If you wish to discuss matters with us, such as joining or assistance, then you are welcome to post here.

DISCLAIMER: The world of NationStates is merely a game. Our views in this game do not necessarily represent our views in the real world.

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This spoiler is a list of dead horses that we don't need to kick anymore. Seriously, please stop.

Slavery

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Official Charter Wording
Section II - Civil Rights
The Multi-Species Union shall respect the equality, independence, and sovereignty of Member-Nations including their species differences and national identities. Likewise, the Congressional Union recognizes that some aspects of species' culture are not akin to Human culture and thus the Alliance will not seek Member-Nation conformity when such practices are proven by the individual Member-Nation to be conducted in a 'humane manner'. Examples of such practices would include

• "slavery" by hive-mind species, by species that are inherently and naturally prone to this hierarchy, or species which have sentient organic or artificial machines. Let all be aware that slavery, in its cruelest form, is frowned upon by Member-Nations who oppose it however the Alliance itself maintains at all times an unbiased definition of "slavery" as a whole, and chooses to examine allegations of slavery on a case-by-case basis to determine whether or not it will step in to intervene. The MSU will not violate Article III, Section 1 of this Charter on civil matters.
• female and male rights as they pertain to species who may be patriarchal, matriarchal, non-gendered or hive-minded.
• dietary consumption of creatures that have sapient, but biologically unrelated, counterparts in Member-Nations.

Section III
The Multi-Species Union shall not be subject to the laws, bylaws or articles found in other alliances. It will defend its Member-Nations from foreign nations or alliances that attempt to interfere with the rights of Member-Nations to keep their customs and culture.

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VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS:

• Discussion on slavery and a prime directive that isn't a Prime Directive.
• Slavery is NOT okay but we can't judge a species based upon anthropocentric standards.

DETERMINATION:

• Slavery, as defined and practiced in human history, is bad.
• Hive-mind species, or species that have evolved to encompass an instinctive performance-based caste system, are not the same as humans. A worker ant is not a slave, for example.
• Humanity has no business trying to turn everything into a human-centric (anthropocentric) point of view; xeno species are not humans.
• Artificial Intelligence (organic or inorganic) beings =/= slaves.
• Slavery is determined on a case-by-case basis and only after hearing testimony. It isn't automatically assumed that slavery practices are transpiring.

Standing Military and Donating Troops/Equipment

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Official Charter Wording
Article IV
War

Section I - Member-Nation Essential Nation Functions
The Congress shall respect individual essential Nation functions, including ensuring the territorial integrity of the State.

Section II - Declarations of War by Member-Nations
Member-Nations have the right to declare war against nations without Congressional Union approval and they have the right to organize their foreign relations to their liking, except as regulated by Article III, Section 4. Member-Nations may wage armed conflict against foreign nations. Member-Nations will not involve the Alliance in its war, nor invoke the Alliance's name as a form of determent or weapon, nor falsify information in order to spur the Alliance into assisting their cause.

Section III - Duties and Responsibilities
The Multi-Species Union shall not maintain a standing army. The MSU may call upon Member-Nations to assist in peacekeeping missions however acceptance of the MSU's proposal and participation on that peacekeeping mission are at the Member-Nation's discretion and said Member-Nation will not be held accountable or disbarred for refusing to render assistance. The structure shall default to positional authority determined by the Congressional Union. MSU military personnel can be called upon to

• Monitor a disputed border
• Monitor and observe peace processes in post-conflict areas
• Provide security across a conflict zone
• Protect civilians
• Assist in-country military personnel with training and support
• Assist ex-combatants in implementing the peace agreements they may have signed

MSU forces will not be used for disputes between Member-Nations.


Article V
Peacekeeping and the Ministry of Defence

Section I - Ministry of Defence
In accordance to the Multi-Species Union Charter, and with respect to the individual governing bodies that comprise the alliance, the Ministry of Defence is empowered to defend the Alliance to the ability permitted so by the Congressional Union. The Minister of MoD cannot act on its own accord, nor use the department as a leverage to coerce, intimidate, or threaten foreign nations or member-nations for its own purposes. It is the responsibility of the Ministry of Defence to coordinate with member-nations that do contribute its military forces and see to that no member-nations are acting in their own interest ahead of the alliance. MSU forces will not be used for disputes between Member-Nations.

Section II - Member-Nations
The MSU may call upon Member-Nations to assist in peacekeeping missions however acceptance of the MSU's proposal and participation on that peacekeeping mission are at the Member-Nation's discretion and said Member-Nation will not be held accountable or disbarred for refusing to render assistance. Member nations are under no obligation to contribute to the defense force, nor be subject to retaliation for being a non-participant. Member-Nations with higher or more advanced technology will not violate the Article III, Section 1 Inherent Species Rights and Non-Interference Directive nor will the MSU, Ministry of Defence or Minister-President override this directive and coerce those Member-Nations into contributing.

Section III - Scope of Mission
The Multi-Species Union shall not maintain a standing army nor will it receive "donated" resources to include troops, equipment or vehicles. The MSU may call upon Member-Nations to assist in peacekeeping missions however acceptance of the MSU's proposal and participation on that peacekeeping mission are at the Member-Nation's discretion and said Member-Nation will not be held accountable or disbarred for refusing to render assistance. MSU peacekeeping forces can be called upon to

• Monitor and observe disputed borders
• Monitor and observe peace processes in post-conflict areas
• Provide security across a conflict zone
• Protect civilians/aid in missions of mercy
• Assist in-country military personnel with training and support
• Assist ex-combatants in implementing the peace agreements they may have signed
• Defend the alliance from overt military action by foreign powers
• Coordinate with the Ministry of Intelligence with information pertinent to the situation at hand

Section IV - Standard Policy
Member-Nations are responsible for their own borders and territories however, in extreme circumstances, a Member-Nation may request emergency assistance from the Multi-Species Union. Such requests must properly drafted and submitted to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. This ministry is charged with communicating the Member-Nation's needs to the other Ministries and the Minister-President. The Minister-President must present the request and any accompanying initial data to the Congressional Union for vote. Requests are accepted with two-thirds majority vote.

The Minister-President is charged with coordinating the various ministries to form a delegation that will establish lines of establish lines of transportation, demarcate locations for bases, relief camps and/or demilitarized zones, and any other data needed to support peacekeeping operations. This data will be compiled by the Department of Internal Affairs and presented to the Minister-President. The Minister-President will work with the Council of Intelligent Species Head of Commission to request aid from Member-Nations best suited to assist in a given scenario.

All forces sent by Member-Nations, to include any resources or equipment or manpower, remain under the control of their homeland. Each participating MSU nation is responsible for the upkeep of their forces. The highest ranking commander of those forces will retain command. If there is more than one nation in the peacekeeping force, then the MSU will appoint the highest ranking officer for all combined forces as the commander. All resources, personnel, vehicles, weapons or other accoutrements will be returned to their Member-Nation at the conclusion of each mission.

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VARIOUS DISCUSSIONS: (key post linked; discussions surround post)

• Why we don't have uniforms; please stop pledging; read what Peacekeeping is.
• Peacekeeping Reference Material.
• IC Chambers Proposal and start of discussion for MSU peacekeeping.
• No standing army.
• We're not even in a stage that requires a standing army.
• No standing military - the MSU isn't that kind of organization.
• Sick of repeating these reasons.
• No again.
• More 'splaining.
• No again.
• Ugh. NO. Tech is a factor, see?
• Obligatory NO for grins.

DETERMINATION:

• We are a mixed tech level group. We are not going to force others to accept our nation's canon. It would be most logical to go with equipment from FT nations: lives saved, safer materials, more accuracy, better fuel source. This would piss off MT and PMT nations but - more importantly - the FT nations are not going to share their advanced tech with nations that are still focused on war. The majority of FT nations in the MSU have reached a civilization level were war is primitive and asinine. These FT nations solve issues through diplomacy.
• See above point. The majority of "we donate troops" and "we want a standing army!" come from MT nations. MT nations interested in joining war groups need to find a MT war group to support their desire. The MSU is not a wargaming group.
• The MSU WILL call upon member nations to provide support but this is to be determined by the mission itself.
• Troops will remain the property of their nation and under their nation's command structure at the battalion or lower level. They will, however, work with the MSU to assure mission objective completion. (This is not a standing military.)
• There are several nations that can not be part of any organization that has a standing military. These nations are the most active in the MSU. The group is willing to gravitate towards a military RP group IF MT nation players step up and take over some of the workload. This hasn't happened yet ergo we will remain a passive group.

[Stormwrath]

For the sake of posting, I'll post.

[Urran]

eh

[Planeia]

[Stormwrath]

Yeah, and I clearly won that one.

[Empire of Atmora]

Humanoids for the win

[Primordial Luxa]

The Luxan government is still interested in changing the charter

[Stormwrath]

You mean amending it? Because I am wondering if we should change the charter itself or add amendments.

[Primordial Luxa]

You mean amending it? Because I am wondering if we should change the charter itself or add amendments.

whatever works

[Lolloh]

Hm... well, I for one would support strengthening our peacekeeping force into a permanent military division and establishing a joint command. I think it'd actually be pretty interesting, since we'd invariably have to figure out how to put together units from several dozen species in the most effective way. Of course, this group as a whole is pretty FT...

[Planeia]

Hm... well, I for one would support strengthening our peacekeeping force into a permanent military division and establishing a joint command. I think it'd actually be pretty interesting, since we'd invariably have to figure out how to put together units from several dozen species in the most effective way. Of course, this group as a whole is pretty FT...

Oh jeez, not this again...

The MSU is no more a military alliance than the World Trade Organization.

[Lolloh]

...which is part of the UN, which, nominally, is!

Some sort of military force would probably be helpful, or at a minimum some sort of joint command system, in case some diversity-hater or other decides to summon his Starfleets of Wank and declare war upon us...

[Planeia]

...which is part of the UN, which, nominally, is!

Some sort of military force would probably be helpful, or at a minimum some sort of joint command system, in case some diversity-hater or other decides to summon his Starfleets of Wank and declare war upon us...

The WTO is not part of the UN...

There are many who hate the UN, but none actually attack it, but rather the individual nations in it. Defense should be left up to them or their actual military alliances, such as NATO.

[Lolloh]

Still... backing up our alliance with, at a minimum, some sort of military exchange, like having an annual meeting of our generals, would be good, so at least some sort of plan would be in place in the event of conflict.

[Empire of Atmora]

Atmora has great jets fighters and I semi-support this military for MSU

[New Galosia]

Is there somewhere where I can sign up for your fine establishment.

[Arcanium of Mars]

Well hello new thread.

[Stormwrath]

Is there somewhere where I can sign up for your fine establishment.

In here.

[Vampirum]

Guess I'll drop in with a wine glass of blood. Yes, the vampires are here. Hide your necks people, hide your necks.

[Stormwrath]

...which is part of the UN, which, nominally, is!

Some sort of military force would probably be helpful, or at a minimum some sort of joint command system, in case some diversity-hater or other decides to summon his Starfleets of Wank and declare war upon us...

The WTO is not part of the UN...

There are many who hate the UN, but none actually attack it, but rather the individual nations in it. Defense should be left up to them or their actual military alliances, such as NATO.

Ummm, WTO is affiliated with the UN. And having a peacekeeping force but not a standing army is a decent compromise. For one thing, it prevents member-nations from leaving due to another nation being in a rival defense alliance; and we don't have to worry about being a military alliance because we only do peacekeeping operations when a war among one of ours breaks out.

If you guys still object to having any and all military personnel in the MSU, I respect your opinion; it's a free universe after all.

[Lolloh]

Well, presumably, you can't force people to donate troops; my goal was a peacekeeping force of maybe 10k-50k, which would probably be all we'd need for any conflict, considering the firepower and strength of our military, and the fact that, Stormwrath and others will probably agree, this will only be a minor military force meant to back our side with logistics support and training, and certainly not anything near a full combat role beyond advisors. Of course, as I said, establishing a military conference so we have contingency plan in place should war occur would certainly help, but beyond that, I think the only thing we need to agree upon is who has the right to deploy said peacekeeping force.

I will personally donate a 2 or 3 regiments of dragons; if you want, I will also create the peacekeeping force page, though keep in mind that we should probably accept people who want our assistant in multi-racial conflicts.

[Dyste]

Ah, that new topic smell... which I shouldn't be smelling since it's just a page on the Internet. I think I need help.

[Oaledonia]

There should definitely be a consecutive term limit for leadership positions.

[Cerillium]

I'll update the station IC in just a few moments. Done. Also updated the sign-up link.

Hm... well, I for one would support strengthening our peacekeeping force into a permanent military division and establishing a joint command. I think it'd actually be pretty interesting, since we'd invariably have to figure out how to put together units from several dozen species in the most effective way. Of course, this group as a whole is pretty FT...

As was explained previously, there are several of us that can't belong to an organization or alliance that keeps forces. We have preexisting treaties that prohibit it.

The following is my player opinion:

FT is a wide avenue filled with imaginative technology and solutions. Problems arise between FT players when one player refuses to embrace the other player's unproven canon. An M1 Abrams operates a specific way and MT nations are aware of the specs or can access them. The M1's canon is proven. Not so with FT; specs are left to hard science, wonky science, or fantasy. The FT player may write it into a RP but that canon is only acceptable to those players within that RP group. It's unproven canon meaning a nation outside that group may elect to see it as "stupid" or "asinine" and thus it isn't allowed in the war game. Canon can be proven to those outside the group (the greater FT community) if it is sensible, well-defined and well-written.

The main problem is that the average FT nation player does not bother to read two extremely relevant sources: The NS FT Advice and Assistance Thread and the size matters post. As a result, we get FT nations that span multiple star systems "just because they do" or encompass tech that is either implausible or not compatible with other tech, or else we have players that insist that their tech trumps all.

Few players can pull off a convincing FT empire (one that spans more that a few stars) for war gaming purposes. These players have detailed out their entire empire, have detailed out their tech, have successfully RP'd against other FT nations and their success resulted in acceptance (acceptance of their concept, their nation's size, their species etc.)

The MSU charter is left open so that nations can war with each other regardless of player skill level or player FT canon. It removes war gaming from the alliance/organization level and sets it at player level. It allows players to accept another player's tech as proven rather than asking all the MSU players to acknowledge that canon.

[Stormwrath]

Well, presumably, you can't force people to donate troops; my goal was a peacekeeping force of maybe 10k-50k, which would probably be all we'd need for any conflict, considering the firepower and strength of our military, and the fact that, Stormwrath and others will probably agree, this will only be a minor military force meant to back our side with logistics support and training, and certainly not anything near a full combat role beyond advisors. Of course, as I said, establishing a military conference so we have contingency plan in place should war occur would certainly help, but beyond that, I think the only thing we need to agree upon is who has the right to deploy said peacekeeping force.

I will personally donate a 2 or 3 regiments of dragons; if you want, I will also create the peacekeeping force page, though keep in mind that we should probably accept people who want our assistant in multi-racial conflicts.

I'd rather not have a peacekeeping force page created, due to many members' disapproval of the use of military personnel. Creating one would drive away the key active members of the MSU, and they really, REALLY don't want it.