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by Cascadeland » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:48 am
by Vitaphone Racing » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:14 am
Cascadeland wrote:Did anyone here specifically write that CAS was obsolete
Yes, Aelarus specifically said, "CAS has changed since the 70s" page 153. Also the arguments against the 30mm gun and A10 concept is also a argument against the relevancy of CAS as I mentioned before. Then there is the outright mischaracterization of my argument when it came to CAS and what defines it.
or that bombs were all that was needed to support ground operations?
Bombs and missiles, yes. Again, pertaining to the 30mm gun's supposed obsolescence.
Because, reading back through the thread, you seem to be arguing points which nobody even rose with you.
Go to 153 and up. They're there.
And either you're continually playing down the importance and ability of other aircraft now involved with ground support
No. The discussion was about the A10, not the importance of other aircraft involved with ground support. The importance of other aircraft in the inventory for specific roles cannot be overstated (to include the newer F22). While some aircraft may be flawed, that doesn't mean they are worthless. Thats stretching it too far.
or you're unaware of them, as you've consistently alluded all through this thread that the A-10 was somehow unique in more ways than one.
It is and I've already explained why,
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.
by Cascadeland » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:08 am
by San-Silvacian » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:21 am
by Vitaphone Racing » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:12 am
Cascadeland wrote:"By what grotesque stretch of the imagination is "CAS has changed" equivalent to "CAS is obsolete. Seriously? Further, Aelarus is entirely correct; CAS has changed just how lots of things have changed since the 70's and brings with it a host of new requirements and new considerations while older considerations have faded into oblivion.
The contradiction in this statement couldn't be any larger.
If CAS has changed so much since the 70s, that implies obsolescence. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete
What exactly are older considerations of CAS that have faded into oblivion? I agree that new and more accurate weapons help increase the flexibility of CAS, although the basic concept of not using weapons with large casualty producing radii in close proximity to friendly forces is still a basic consideration. So, nut shell, CAS hasn't changed as a fundamental concept.
Sometimes troops get closer than 500 meters in close combat. Often times, within 200 meters.
Again, the main munitions used in service, missiles and bombs, cannot be safely used within close-in distance unless you want to kill friendlies. Are there munitions that theoretically could be? I would certainly say so. They arent produced and fielded in large numbers (yet).
And again, I'm yet to see anyone who went as far to claim that bombs were all that was needed for CAS. The 30mm gun might well be obsolete, given that the new 20 and 25mm guns can do practically everything the 30mm gun can do as of the present.
The 30mm has more energy than 20mm and 25mm, not to mention the A10 having a higher cannon payload than fighter bombers carrying less. That is due in no small part to the A10 being purpose built to accomodate the gun.
Yes, the general argument against the A10 was the sophistication of bombs and missiles, particularly the maverick. What other alternatives are there if the A10s 30mm gun is supposedly obsolete? bombs and missiles. So implying that the gun is obsolete automatically shifts the argument in favor bombs and missiles.
You continue to press the idea that the USAF will be lacking in ground support of a critical and obvious nature once the A-10 is retired; it's false.
It will for the reasons I already mentioned about its attributes compared to, say, F16s and F35s. This is the disadvantage of a multipurpose airframe centered around aerial combat when compared to a dedicated, specialized CAS-centric aircraft. Im not arguing that those aforementioned aircraft are "bad", or that they cannot drop PGMs on designated targets if necessary. My argument is that expecting them to be as effective for CAS for ground troops as the A10 was is stretching the imagination to put it nicely.
See Karbala 2003.
The Soviets also learned this with the SU25 vs Mi24 in Afghanistan.
Gunships certainly have their place (reconnaissance and interdiction of IFVs and armor), but to replace a CAS or COIN aircraft? meh...
Parhe wrote:Guess what, maybe you don't know what it is like to be Asian.
by Oaledonia » Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:46 am
Cascadeland wrote:If CAS has changed so much since the 70s, that implies obsolescence. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete
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by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:04 am
Cascadeland wrote:If CAS has changed so much since the 70s, that implies obsolescence. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolete
by The Archangel Conglomerate » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:52 am
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:For want of lances, the heavy equipment never reached the field.
For want of heavy equipment the platoons FOs could direct no HMGs.
For want of HMGs, the Archians had to rely on shitty fucking microcalibers.
For want of real weapons, they lost the war.
by Aelarus » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:47 am
...Cascadeland wrote:Yes, Aelarus specifically said, "CAS has changed since the 70s" page 153. Also the arguments against the 30mm gun and A10 concept is also a argument against the relevancy of CAS as I mentioned before. Then there is the outright mischaracterization of my argument when it came to CAS and what defines it.
by Vancon » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:58 am
Cascadeland wrote:Even more words
Hyperspatial Travel wrote:Here's the thing. You're the new guy. And this isn't a particularly friendly society to people who don't follow the (largely unspoken) rules. If you walk into highschool on your first day with your pocket protector at the ready, your suspenders tightened, and your Batman underpants worn back-to-front for good luck, you might cop some shit.
If you do that, walk in, and loudly declare "I'M THE FUCKAN BEST GAIZ, YOU JOCKS SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME I CAN KICK YOUR ASS!", you're going to get your head flushed. And you're going to spend your entire time hiding in the library with the other unpopular kids, two of whom are unpopular only because they shit their pants on a daily basis. You're going to want to leave, but you won't be able to. After awhile, you'll convince people you want to be there. That you really love the way shit smells. Especially Jeremy's shit, because he has a balanced diet and doesn't consume many dairy products.
It won't be true. And you'll have a bit of fun. But every time you venture out of that library, you're going to find yourself hair-deep in the one shit Jeremy managed to take in the toilet today before it gets flushed all over your face.
So here's what you do.
You conform.
Wait, what? Isn't conformity bad? Doesn't conformity make you like all those dickheads who you hate?
Well, yeah. It kinda does. But once people respect and like you, you can more-or-less do what you want. Here's the rub, though. You need to be respected and liked first.
So after a little humility, you end up being on the football team. Sure, you're not the quarterback, but you never get flushed. You may not be the most popular guy in town, but you're invited to all the parties, and you don't have to huddle up to Jeremy of a morning and hope that the jocks don't decide to wander into the library for a little sport.
And after a few months, people will just assume you're a fairly decent player and you deserve to be on the same level as them. You don't have to go around declaring that you're equal to the cool kids - nobody who's powerful ever needs to declare it. People just grant you equality by default.
Mike the Progressive wrote:You know I don't say this often, but this guy... he gets it. Like everything. As in he gets life.
Krazakistan wrote:How have you not died after being exposed to that much shit on a monthly basis?
Rupudska wrote:I avoid NSG like one would avoid ISIS-occupied Syria.
Alimeria- wrote:I'll go to sleep when I want to, not when some cheese-eating surrender monkey tells me to.
Which just so happens to be within the next half-hour
Shyluz wrote:Van, Sci-fi Generallisimo
by The United Remnants of America » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:39 am
by Vancon » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:41 am
Mike the Progressive wrote:You know I don't say this often, but this guy... he gets it. Like everything. As in he gets life.
Krazakistan wrote:How have you not died after being exposed to that much shit on a monthly basis?
Rupudska wrote:I avoid NSG like one would avoid ISIS-occupied Syria.
Alimeria- wrote:I'll go to sleep when I want to, not when some cheese-eating surrender monkey tells me to.
Which just so happens to be within the next half-hour
Shyluz wrote:Van, Sci-fi Generallisimo
by Korouse » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:45 am
Vancon wrote:Cascadeland wrote:Even more words
Look, read this:
I adlibbed a bit here, but neverthelessHyperspatial Travel wrote:Here's the thing. You're the new guy. And this isn't a particularly friendly society to people who don't follow the (largely unspoken) rules. If you walk into highschool on your first day with your pocket protector at the ready, your suspenders tightened, and your Batman underpants worn back-to-front for good luck, you might cop some shit.
If you do that, walk in, and loudly declare "I'M THE FUCKAN BEST GAIZ, YOU JOCKS SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME I CAN KICK YOUR ASS!", you're going to get your head flushed. And you're going to spend your entire time hiding in the library with the other unpopular kids, two of whom are unpopular only because they shit their pants on a daily basis. You're going to want to leave, but you won't be able to. After awhile, you'll convince people you want to be there. That you really love the way shit smells. Especially Jeremy's shit, because he has a balanced diet and doesn't consume many dairy products.
It won't be true. And you'll have a bit of fun. But every time you venture out of that library, you're going to find yourself hair-deep in the one shit Jeremy managed to take in the toilet today before it gets flushed all over your face.
So here's what you do.
You conform.
Wait, what? Isn't conformity bad? Doesn't conformity make you like all those dickheads who you hate?
Well, yeah. It kinda does. But once people respect and like you, you can more-or-less do what you want. Here's the rub, though. You need to be respected and liked first.
So after a little humility, you end up being on the football team. Sure, you're not the quarterback, but you never get flushed. You may not be the most popular guy in town, but you're invited to all the parties, and you don't have to huddle up to Jeremy of a morning and hope that the jocks don't decide to wander into the library for a little sport.
And after a few months, people will just assume you're a fairly decent player and you deserve to be on the same level as them. You don't have to go around declaring that you're equal to the cool kids - nobody who's powerful ever needs to declare it. People just grant you equality by default.
by Kouralia » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:46 am
Korouse wrote:Anyways, What's the possibility of equipping a WW2 battleship with lots of anti-ship and anti-air missiles?
I'm going to show Padnak Battleships are still cool n stuff.
by Padnak » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:47 am
Inquilabstan wrote:It is official now. Padnak is really Cobra Commander.
Bezombia wrote:It was about this time that Padnak slowly realized that the thread he thought was about gaming was, in fact, an eight story tall crustacean from the protozoic era.
Husseinarti wrote:Powered Borscht.
Because cosmonauts should never think that even in the depths of space they are free from the Soviet Union.
The Kievan People wrote:As usual, this is Padnak's fault, but we need to move on.
Immoren wrote:Again we've sexual tension that can be cut with a bowie.
by Erusuia » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:50 am
by Korouse » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:51 am
Erusuia wrote:why must battleships look so cool but be so useless in modern combat
by Vancon » Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:53 am
Mike the Progressive wrote:You know I don't say this often, but this guy... he gets it. Like everything. As in he gets life.
Krazakistan wrote:How have you not died after being exposed to that much shit on a monthly basis?
Rupudska wrote:I avoid NSG like one would avoid ISIS-occupied Syria.
Alimeria- wrote:I'll go to sleep when I want to, not when some cheese-eating surrender monkey tells me to.
Which just so happens to be within the next half-hour
Shyluz wrote:Van, Sci-fi Generallisimo
by Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:05 am
by Erusuia » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:11 am
by Tule » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:14 am
Erusuia wrote:Whats the best way to counter hostile SEAD operations?
by Oaledonia » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:15 am
Erusuia wrote:Whats the best way to counter hostile SEAD operations?
The lovable PMT nation of hugs and chibi! Now with 75% more Hanyū!
Oaledonian wiki | Decoli Defense | Embassy | OAF Military InfoUnder construction
*POLITICALLY CONTENTIOUS STATEMENTS INTENSIFY*
by Licana » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:15 am
Puzikas wrote:Gulf War One was like Slapstick: The War. Except, you know, up to 40,000 people died.
Vitaphone Racing wrote:Never in all my years have I seen someone actually quote the dictionary and still get the definition wrong.
Senestrum wrote:How are KEPs cowardly? Surely the "real man" would in fact be the one firing giant rods of nuclear waste at speeds best described as "hilarious".
by Spirit of Hope » Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:16 am
Erusuia wrote:Whats the best way to counter hostile SEAD operations?
Imperializt Russia wrote:Support biblical marriage! One SoH and as many wives and sex slaves as he can afford!
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