[PASSED] Individual Working Freedoms II

[Chester Pearson]

The current resolution in the General Assembly is by far the most outrageous resolution that I have read. In the name of freedom, it restricts nations from requiring employers to pay certain amounts, pay overtime after the 40 hour work week, and further destroys the ideals of worker control by making it an individual negotiating with a boss who is rule him at his work. Despite this nation's view on it, where does the World Assembly have the right in its constitution to prevent a nation from regulating its business and economy??? What power does it hold to enforce Capitalist Ideals onto leftist countries? Why should we have to pass laws that are against everything socialists and labor movements have ever worked for? It does not have this authority and it must be stopped!

Below, I will show how the resolution is not about freedom, but about giving employers power at the cost of the workers by coercing the state to enforce laws that are against its very foundations!

Description: The World Assembly,

Strongly reaffirming its commitment to individual liberty,

Believing that individuals should be as free as possible from undue government interference in making decisions governing their personal lives,

Convinced that the issues of when, how often, and for how long an individual works should remain an issue for private negotiation between employer and employee,

Dissenting from the view that one standard working week can be determined as a universal diktat, given the diversity of national economies, the particulars of industries working on cyclical, seasonal or other irregular working patterns, and the varying conditions, demographic, environmental, developmental, and otherwise, of member nations,

Considering any attempt to impose a universal manacle of working time restriction to be a grossly unfair abrogation of individual freedoms,

Desirous of reaching a fair compromise on the issue:

Encourages all nations to grant their people the greatest possible degree of freedom in determining their terms of employment, with specific regard to working time;

Calls upon all nations to respect the rights of individuals to be free to make choices about their terms of employment, and equally of individuals to seek representation or counsel during such negotiations;

Mandates the removal of working time regulations that serve only to reduce individual liberty and that do not serve any other purpose;

Reserves the right of all nations to choose whether to set specific regulations on workweeks and working time in the general public interest;

Promotes a healthy harmony of national and individual rights in economic decision-making.

Strongly reaffirming its commitment to individual liberty,

To start with, the WA does not have a commitment to individual liberty. It has a commitment to NATIONAL liberty, the ability of a nation to rule its people as it sees fit. Second, this resolution does not ensure personal liberty, but personal slavery to an employer who has time and time again shown to have no care for workers' rights!

Believing that individuals should be as free as possible from undue government interference in making decisions governing their personal lives,

Jacobstein shares this belief too, but this is not about the personal lives of employees. This resolution gives power to the employer to work a man for as long as he wishes and as hard as he wishes without worrying about compensation for time spent on the job and without heed to the need of food, of break, of sleep, and of leisure time to oneself without having to use what little time they have away from work to do things they need to do. Employers are notorious for mistreating their employees in the name of profit. By trying to stay out of the way, the WA is enforcing personal slavery to the employer with no repercussions! This is not the WA's place to take a stance on and it most certainly should not do it as slavery!

Considering any attempt to impose a universal manacle of working time restriction to be a grossly unfair abrogation of individual freedoms,

I would like to remind the writer of this resolution and the members of the WA what is being done in these laws. The worker is not required to stop working, the employer is simply required to compensate him for his extra time spent over a certain amount of hours. The Employee himself is not being limited, the employer is. To say that limiting the time that the employer can work a worker without extra compensation is limiting the employee is preposterous! And again, WHAT PLACE DOES THE WA HAVE TO LEGISLATE THIS? This is forcing countries to not regulate their businesses as they see fit. In the name of freedom, you are restricting nations from exorcising their protected rights! How dare they even suggest this!

Encourages all nations to grant their people the greatest possible degree of freedom in determining their terms of employment, with specific regard to working time;

You are saying that the protections offered to overworked employees who would otherwise being working longer and harder without proper compensation is a restriction of their freedom? It is a restriction of the EMPLOYER'S freedom, not the workers! The Employers were limited because they were oppressing and coercing their employees to work long, hard hours with little to know compensation for it. The labor movements brought that to an end with these laws! But now, the WA wishes to take them away? NEVER! Where is its authority to do this? To tell our nations how to regulate our own economies and businesses! They have NONE!

Calls upon all nations to respect the rights of individuals to be free to make choices about their terms of employment, and equally of individuals to seek representation or counsel during such negotiations;

We do respect the right of a worker to decide the terms of their employment. However, we also protect our workers from being overworked without proper compensation via overtime based on a 40 hour work week. Again, in the name of freedom, you are taking away protections for workers against their totalitarian bosses. And I'll ask again: WHERE DOES THE WA HAVE THE POWER TO DO THIS?

Mandates the removal of working time regulations that serve only to reduce individual liberty and that do not serve any other purpose;

Reserves the right of all nations to choose whether to set specific regulations on workweeks and working time in the general public interest;

How can these two lines even coexist? In one sentence, the resolution destroys everything Leftists love and the next allows them to set regulations? That doesn't make sense. If anything, it renders the whole resolution pointless! And where does the WA have the authority to say how Jacobstein or any other nation regulates its economy! It does not!

Promotes a healthy harmony of national and individual rights in economic decision-making.

Then turns around and gives power to the employer and not the individual worker. This whole resolution is an over reach of power, counter productive and self voiding.

Nations of the world, I beg of you.

DO NOT PASS THIS RESOLUTION!!!

Rant all you want, no one gives two shits. The wonderful species known as the Lemming has ensure this will pass comfortably....

[Araraukar]

The wonderful species known as the Lemming has ensure this will pass comfortably....

With 1,898 nations (not counting delegate votes) for and 728 against, it does indeed look good.

[Chester Pearson]

The wonderful species known as the Lemming has ensure this will pass comfortably....

With 1,898 nations (not counting delegate votes) for and 728 against, it does indeed look good.

The DSR has finally conquered a Mousey vote against! Let this be a lesson kids: Miracles can happen to anyone....

[Potted Plants United]

OOC: Just a quick OOC note that I voted for. Blocker on this issue is better than anything floating around the forum atm.

[Equalitria]

Anything that would be just a blocker and nothing more, would be illegal under the proposal rules.

So then it's not just a blocker. It carries actual, ideological weight, and could be interpreted to restrict certain legislation or agreements in individual nations. That's precisely my concern.

If we're scared of a 30-hour work week (or whatever this week's bogeyman may be) let it be repealed if it ever manages to pass, much less see a vote in the first place. The current hands-off approach of the WA is precisely what the bill in question claims to desire. Why, then, is any legislation even necessary? Are people this unsure of their persuasive abilities, that they must recklessly impose unnecessary legislation in order to stave off the absurd?

[Wrapper]

The current resolution in the General Assembly is by far the most outrageous resolution that I have read.

You obviously haven't been reading as many proposals as we have.

[Separatist Peoples]

Anything that would be just a blocker and nothing more, would be illegal under the proposal rules.

So then it's not just a blocker. It carries actual, ideological weight, and could be interpreted to restrict certain legislation or agreements in individual nations. That's precisely my concern.

If we're scared of a 30-hour work week (or whatever this week's bogeyman may be) let it be repealed if it ever manages to pass, much less see a vote in the first place. The current hands-off approach of the WA is precisely what the bill in question claims to desire. Why, then, is any legislation even necessary? Are people this unsure of their persuasive abilities, that they must recklessly impose unnecessary legislation in order to stave off the absurd?

"Or we can pass something that has so many loopholes, no effect will be had. This bill leaves so much up to national governments, it will only have a negative effect if your government is incompetent enough to let it happen. You can justify any length workweek, and the bits on individual worker freedom are as empty as WA clauses get. I can't believe you're struggling with this."

[Araraukar]

"I can't believe you're struggling with this."

Well, they're new here, and I don't think I've seen their ambassador in the Bar yet - most new ambassadors tend to struggle with things around here until they visit the Bar. Then they're either too inebriated to care anymore, glad to return to the sanity of the debate hall, or in coma. In each case it tends to lower the amount of struggling.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Why, then, is any legislation even necessary?

"Any legislation" is not necessary. Which is unfortunately, why we have blocker resolutions. So that crazy people who don't know what an "hour" is, or think employees are entitled to extended vacations and 30-hour workweeks, cannot force all nations to implement their screwy beliefs.

[Jakuso]

This resolution wants to establish rules that would effectively get rid of worker freedom. It should be a matter of the individual companies to determine how their employees are treated in terms of payment and working hours. Isn't that the whole point of a job description? Of course the businesses should follow employment and payment laws that are approved at the sovereign level that are decided by nationstate democracy. Therefore in the meantime, Yakus shall be voting AGAINST this resolution.

Nationstate Democracy bullsit again? If you are going to argue that premise please learn what the fuck it means...

Or better yet? If you don't like this you have two options: Quit the WA and were all better off, or fall on your face trying to repeal it. Either way your one whole vote means dick.

OOC: I take pittance on you for you always have to try and be rude.

IC: Ambassador, you haven't made any valid point here. We are voting against because from what we can see this resolution wants to create changes that would contradict our systems, and they are systems that we have no desire to alter.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

OOC: I take pittance on you for you always have to try and be rude.

You mean "pity"?

[Wrapper]

OOC: I take pittance on you for you always have to try and be rude.

You mean "pity"?

OOC: Perhaps he's asking his mum for his allowance.

IC: We have voted in favor, just to shut up the author of that horrid 30-hour-a-week proposal. That was a painful debate.

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: I take pittance on you for you always have to try and be rude.

IC: Ambassador, you haven't made any valid point here. We are voting against because from what we can see this resolution wants to create changes that would contradict our systems, and they are systems that we have no desire to alter.

Bell places a brown-paper wrapped parcel on the Jakusan delegation's desk, clearly shaped like a toilet plunger.

"Congratulations, ambassador. You'll be needing that after that argument. How, exactly, does this require anything but the most superficial changes? The worst this does is prevent open and deliberate oppression. Poorly. Everything else is deliberately worded to allow for loopholes so nothing changes. Hell, you could still oppress your people with unreasonable labor requirements and still be in compliance, so long as you justify it. It prevents worse violations of national sovereignty by far, and requires little more then lip service in return."

[Jakuso]

OOC: I take pittance on you for you always have to try and be rude.

IC: Ambassador, you haven't made any valid point here. We are voting against because from what we can see this resolution wants to create changes that would contradict our systems, and they are systems that we have no desire to alter.

Bell places a brown-paper wrapped parcel on the Jakusan delegation's desk, clearly shaped like a toilet plunger.

"Congratulations, ambassador. You'll be needing that after that argument. How, exactly, does this require anything but the most superficial changes? The worst this does is prevent open and deliberate oppression. Poorly. Everything else is deliberately worded to allow for loopholes so nothing changes. Hell, you could still oppress your people with unreasonable labor requirements and still be in compliance, so long as you justify it. It prevents worse violations of national sovereignty by far, and requires little more then lip service in return."

*The Yakusan Ambassador hands the plunger to one of his interns.*

Yes ambassador, I understand what this resolution is trying to achieve, but I don't think it's our way of doing things. In theory this would be a magnet for those who are lazy to work, and a blessing for over-powerful trade unions, who having looked at the troubles in 1980s Britain, should not be allowed to hold too much power.

[Chester Pearson]

Bell places a brown-paper wrapped parcel on the Jakusan delegation's desk, clearly shaped like a toilet plunger.

"Congratulations, ambassador. You'll be needing that after that argument. How, exactly, does this require anything but the most superficial changes? The worst this does is prevent open and deliberate oppression. Poorly. Everything else is deliberately worded to allow for loopholes so nothing changes. Hell, you could still oppress your people with unreasonable labor requirements and still be in compliance, so long as you justify it. It prevents worse violations of national sovereignty by far, and requires little more then lip service in return."

*The Yakusan Ambassador hands the plunger to one of his interns.*

Yes ambassador, I understand what this resolution is trying to achieve, but I don't think it's our way of doing things. In theory this would be a magnet for those who are lazy to work, and a blessing for over-powerful trade unions, who having looked at the troubles in 1980s Britain, should not be allowed to hold too much power.

Um....

Did you even read past the title? This gives all the power to the EMPLOYER, not the trade unions. Your ignorance will never cease to amaze me....

[Separatist Peoples]

Um....

Did you even read past the title? This gives all the power to the EMPLOYER, not the trade unions. Your ignorance will never cease to amaze me....

"Rather, it gives all the power to the government to hand out as it sees fit, but I do share your incredulity at the Jakusan ambassador's reading interpretation skills, Chester. Perhaps this will help?"

Bell hands another parcel to the Jakusan delegation, this one partially wrapped in brown paper and partially in scraps of a crusty "Jugs" magazine long abandoned by Senator Sulla, discovered under a desk during a glue-huffing binge.

"A standard C.D.S.P. high school primer on literature interpretation, ambassador. Focused on Fiction, I'm afraid, but the premise is the same. And, er, try not to touch that corner - yes that one there...there you are.

"At any rate, I'm pleased to see this passing. That out to put the kibosh on the 30 hour workweek crowd!"

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"At any rate, I'm pleased to see this passing. That out to put the kibosh on the 30 hour workweek crowd!"

If the small handful (if that) of nations pushing for a 30-hour workweek constitute a "crowd," I'd hate to see your reaction to a train station or superhighway during rush hour, Mr. Bell. Come to that, I'd love to get a sample of whatever gorgeous drug allows you to enter these, ummm, hallowed debating chambers when various delegations are up in a tizzy. The plain fact is that this resolution is unnecessary. If ever there's a resolution passed that would do anything this bill seeks to prohibit, you can be damn sure it'll have to be more broad-minded, nuanced, surgically targeted, and just plain flat-out friggin' better than the drivel the ambassador from Gruenfeld so reasonably castigates. And if it isn't so better, you can be just as damn sure I'll write my own repeal (or campaign for a better-written repeal).

Indeed, I must register our vote against the instant resolution in the (perhaps vain) hope that deliberate, modest steps to protect all nations' workers may be taken in the future, without spewing forth legislation to mandate WA bulls to invade sovereign nations' china shops. There is room, somewhere in the universe of possible legislation, for inter/supranational worker protections that don't hamstring what capitalist economies still insist on referring to as "liberty."

All that said, the opposition to the instant resolution is taking a needlessly hysterical tone. The only reason to vote against this is precisely that it is a blocker. We find ourselves in word-for-word agreement with Mr. Kelly's assessment. Since not a single line in our vast library of worker protection regulations has the sole effect of reducing individual liberty, we can live with some rightist-libertarian hooey pasted on top of the guarantee to our national right to now and forever keep ordinary workers enthroned as the rightful sovereign power deciding just what capital's responsibilities and limits can and cannot be. We can absolutely live with this resolution and have no reason to expend our precious energies campaigning against it when all it does is rule out future evangelism whilst leaving our own protections 100% intact.

The current resolution in the General Assembly is by far the most outrageous resolution that I have read.

Dear god, sir. Only the worst of the worst of the most obnoxious class of missionary/evangelical communist could say this line with a straight face. Or perhaps you're simply new here. This is probably the single mildest and best-written resolution our national delegation has ever voted against. Many others have been hot wet garbage. Rest assured, Ambassador, that there is far, far worse in the past and future. Welcome to the Snakepit; prepare to have your mind blown.

[Araraukar]

"At any rate, I'm pleased to see this passing. That out to put the kibosh on the 30 hour workweek crowd!"

If the small handful (if that) of nations pushing for a 30-hour workweek constitute a "crowd," I'd hate to see your reaction to a train station or superhighway during rush hour, Mr. Bell.

Once your superhighway rush hour crowd gets their asses off of their seats and drags themselves into this debate hall for a meaningful discussion, you'll have made your point. Until then, let Benjamin call the mad people a crowd.

[Jacobstein]

I am both a communist and new here and I hate this. It is disgusting. Read my while argument here. http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=298080

[Araraukar]

I am both a communist and new here and I hate this. It is disgusting. Read my while argument here. http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=298080

If you have something relevant to say, say it here.

[Jakuso]

*The Yakusan Ambassador hands the plunger to one of his interns.*

Yes ambassador, I understand what this resolution is trying to achieve, but I don't think it's our way of doing things. In theory this would be a magnet for those who are lazy to work, and a blessing for over-powerful trade unions, who having looked at the troubles in 1980s Britain, should not be allowed to hold too much power.

Um....

Did you even read past the title? This gives all the power to the EMPLOYER, not the trade unions. Your ignorance will never cease to amaze me....

Um....

Did you even read past the title? This gives all the power to the EMPLOYER, not the trade unions. Your ignorance will never cease to amaze me....

"Rather, it gives all the power to the government to hand out as it sees fit, but I do share your incredulity at the Jakusan ambassador's reading interpretation skills, Chester. Perhaps this will help?"

Bell hands another parcel to the Jakusan delegation, this one partially wrapped in brown paper and partially in scraps of a crusty "Jugs" magazine long abandoned by Senator Sulla, discovered under a desk during a glue-huffing binge.

"A standard C.D.S.P. high school primer on literature interpretation, ambassador. Focused on Fiction, I'm afraid, but the premise is the same. And, er, try not to touch that corner - yes that one there...there you are.

"At any rate, I'm pleased to see this passing. That out to put the kibosh on the 30 hour workweek crowd!"

*Carefully handing the pornographic material to a male intern, who seems to salivate on seeing it*

Hang on a minute! You lot actually want to give out all the power to the employer? How rich is that! You claim to be socialist nations yet you are doing something that is completely different! How sanctimonious is that? And of course we should be realising that giving the employer all the power isn't a good thing is it? Especially if he can find a way to exploit his work force and to effectively restrict the freedoms of his workers. And of course I'll expect you to say "ahh no it's covered in the smallprint" but what about things we don't know about?

Ambassadors, you never cease to amuse me.

[Araraukar]

Hang on a minute! You lot actually want to give out all the power to the employer?

Read. What. You. Quote.

"Rather, it gives all the power to the government to hand out as it sees fit

How rich is that! You claim to be socialist nations yet you are doing something that is completely different!

"You're doing something that is completely different" - from what, you? I should hope so.

How sanctimonious is that? And of course we should be realising that giving the employer all the power isn't a good thing is it?

I repeat: Read. What. You. Quote.

"Rather, it gives all the power to the government to hand out as it sees fit

If your government is powerless in the face of employers, then that's hardly the fault of the international community, now is it?

[Separatist Peoples]

*Carefully handing the pornographic material to a male intern, who seems to salivate on seeing it*

Hang on a minute! You lot actually want to give out all the power to the employer? How rich is that! You claim to be socialist nations yet you are doing something that is completely different! How sanctimonious is that? And of course we should be realising that giving the employer all the power isn't a good thing is it? Especially if he can find a way to exploit his work force and to effectively restrict the freedoms of his workers. And of course I'll expect you to say "ahh no it's covered in the smallprint" but what about things we don't know about?

Ambassadors, you never cease to amuse me.

"The C.D.S.P. is avowedly capitalist, ambassador. Your intelligence services are right on par with your reading interpretation. Perhaps I should have given you an elementary school primer instead. Especially considering that this gives power to governments, not employers. Governments get to dispense that power as they see fit. Try again.

"And, ambassador Zelweke, I'm afraid the C.D.S.P. government's first and foremost goal is to protect her citizens. A blocker serves to do this more effectively then holding my breath waiting for a proper resolution, and what other nations' choose to do with their workers is a distant second in our list of concerns."

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

I am both a communist and new here and I hate this. It is disgusting. Read my while argument here. http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=298080

If you have something relevant to say, say it here.

He already did, on the previous page. Why he chose to C&P it into a dispatch and then link to it as though we haven't read it already is beyond me.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

If ever there's a resolution passed that would do anything this bill seeks to prohibit, you can be damn sure it'll have to be more broad-minded, nuanced, surgically targeted, and just plain flat-out friggin' better than the drivel the ambassador from Gruenfeld so reasonably castigates.

You mean Gruenberg?