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Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.

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Premislyd
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Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Premislyd » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:40 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
Premislyd wrote:
Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Password-protect your regions. Simple.


Then the ebil raiders will have to use the Security Council, another in-game mechanic, to get rid of the passwords :ooooooo
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The Orson Empire
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Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The Orson Empire » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:40 pm

Registug wrote:
South Pacific Belschaft wrote:Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.

And I will take all 3000 pages of RMB posts with me

Get an offsite forum then.
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Esternial
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Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:42 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
Registug wrote:And I will take all 3000 pages of RMB posts with me

Get an offsite forum then.

Don't worry. We'll find a solution right here. No need to go that far.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The North Polish Union
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Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:42 pm

I sincerely hope that the mod team will not implement exceptions for RP regions (or any regions, for that matter), as this could do serious damage to the R/D Game, which is just as much a legitimate part of NS as RPing is, and NS as a whole.

Its unfair to those who want to play a game if other players wish to opt out of part of it because they don't like it. In Civilization, for example, one can attempt to win either through conquest, cultural achievements, or space colonization. Even if one wishes to attempt to gain victory through one of the latter two means without any military conflict, some military conflict will be unavoidable due to the nature of the game, which would suffer immensely if even one of the paths to victory were removed.

The interplay of R/D and RP in NS is quite similar to what I described in Civ. In fact, since NS (unlike Civ) has no concrete set of goals for "victory," instead leaving it to the individual player to decide what constitutes "victory," no one's criterion for victory in NS are any more or less legitimate than any other person's (providing those criterion stay within site rules). This is the same as achieving the victory criteria for winning Civ via space ship constitutes just as legitimate a victory as winning Civ via reaching those for conquest. The fact that RP and R/D have different means to achieving their respective "victories" does not, and should not, delegitimize one way of playing the game over another any more than the fact that achieving the various types of victory in Civ requires different means to achieve each type of victory (admittedly, the means to each end in Civ are somewhat more similar to each other than the ones here are).

In short, I would say that restricting the scope of R/Ders to act towards their specific ends is not just damaging to part of the game, but to the entirety of the game (imagine how dull Civ would be for warhawkish players if their ability to make war in-game was seriously restricted). The same would apply to a proposal to seriously restrict the ability of RPers to achieve their specific ends. Furthermore, these sorts of proposals attempt to give one section of the NS population (in this case, RPers) a greater legitimacy as opposed to other sections of NS (in this case, R/Ders). This sort of caste-esque distinction between two types of player groups can only lead to further polarization and distrust between the communities and would eventually certainly damage NS as a whole. Therefore, as someone who has (and still does) participated in both RP and R/D, I would implore the Moderation team to consider upholding the status quo, so to speak, and not implementing any changes of this sort which would damage NS as a whole.
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South Pacific Belschaft
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Ex-Nation

Postby South Pacific Belschaft » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:43 pm

Premislyd wrote:
South Pacific Belschaft wrote:Oh, for the love of God, just refound your bloody regions already and make use of the mechanism that already exists for this purpose. You're not special, you don't get to opt out of game mechanics, stop moaning and demanding the mods hold your hands and do something you're too lazy to do for yourselves.


Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.
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GUARDIAN OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

With the cooperation of Federation Forces, all of your bases now belong to us.

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Vanhania
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Founded: May 03, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vanhania » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:44 pm

Oh, here is a idea. Why don't RP regions with out founders just found a new region with a founder that way they can't be raided. I say this as someone against raiding and as a roleplayer. If you don't want to be part of the R/D game then get a region with a founder.
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The Republic of Lanos
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Founded: Apr 17, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby The Republic of Lanos » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:44 pm

South Pacific Belschaft wrote:
Premislyd wrote:
Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.

But does the site revolve around R/D? ;)

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Vanhania
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Founded: May 03, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vanhania » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:45 pm

The Republic of Lanos wrote:
South Pacific Belschaft wrote:Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.

But does the site revolve around R/D? ;)

It doesn't revolve around RP either.
My political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -8.50

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.26
WA delegate and High Chairman of The Coalition of Governments
Long live Vanhania! Long live Lerodas! Long live the Coalition!

I enjoy helping people so if you are a new player or just want some help or advice in anything (including role plays) I would be more than willing to help. Just send a telegram my way.



My nation is a advanced post modern tech/primitive future tech nation. It is a nonhuman humanoid race which is highly religious and aggressive towards outsiders which have "wronged the race" we are stellar nomads of sorts which span a vast swath of space and are united in one large empire called the Vahric Empire.

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Aurora Confederacy
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Founded: May 14, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aurora Confederacy » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:46 pm

Premislyd wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Password-protect your regions. Simple.


Then the ebil raiders will have to use the Security Council, another in-game mechanic, to get rid of the passwords :ooooooo


given your current flag that to me says you're more into the gameplay, fair do to that, however what proposal have you got that is hereby constructive that you can bring to the table that helps move this discussion along in a civilised manner that helps bring a solution to the current problem we have of enavling RP regions and RD regions to coexist in harmony with eachother without RD regions wanting to trash RP regions??
Last edited by Aurora Confederacy on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Esternial
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Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:46 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:I sincerely hope that the mod team will not implement exceptions for RP regions (or any regions, for that matter), as this could do serious damage to the R/D Game, which is just as much a legitimate part of NS as RPing is, and NS as a whole.

Its unfair to those who want to play a game if other players wish to opt out of part of it because they don't like it. In Civilization, for example, one can attempt to win either through conquest, cultural achievements, or space colonization. Even if one wishes to attempt to gain victory through one of the latter two means without any military conflict, some military conflict will be unavoidable due to the nature of the game, which would suffer immensely if even one of the paths to victory were removed.

The interplay of R/D and RP in NS is quite similar to what I described in Civ. In fact, since NS (unlike Civ) has no concrete set of goals for "victory," instead leaving it to the individual player to decide what constitutes "victory," no one's criterion for victory in NS are any more or less legitimate than any other person's (providing those criterion stay within site rules). This is the same as achieving the victory criteria for winning Civ via space ship constitutes just as legitimate a victory as winning Civ via reaching those for conquest. The fact that RP and R/D have different means to achieving their respective "victories" does not, and should not, delegitimize one way of playing the game over another any more than the fact that achieving the various types of victory in Civ requires different means to achieve each type of victory (admittedly, the means to each end in Civ are somewhat more similar to each other than the ones here are).

In short, I would say that restricting the scope of R/Ders to act towards their specific ends is not just damaging to part of the game, but to the entirety of the game (imagine how dull Civ would be for warhawkish players if their ability to make war in-game was seriously restricted). The same would apply to a proposal to seriously restrict the ability of RPers to achieve their specific ends. Furthermore, these sorts of proposals attempt to give one section of the NS population (in this case, RPers) a greater legitimacy as opposed to other sections of NS (in this case, R/Ders). This sort of caste-esque distinction between two types of player groups can only lead to further polarization and distrust between the communities and would eventually certainly damage NS as a whole. Therefore, as someone who has (and still does) participated in both RP and R/D, I would implore the Moderation team to consider upholding the status quo, so to speak, and not implementing any changes of this sort which would damage NS as a whole.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. There are possible solutions that won't significantly impact R/D.

You'll have to realise that leaving it as it is now is also damaging NS as a whole, and also creating fractures between communities. A lot of your arguments, NPU, can be used both ways.

The current status quo might work for you and your peers, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Vanhania wrote:
The Republic of Lanos wrote:But does the site revolve around R/D? ;)

It doesn't revolve around RP either.

Which means both should be equally represented and fairly treated.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Premislyd
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Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Premislyd » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:47 pm

South Pacific Belschaft wrote:
Premislyd wrote:
Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.


Do you have any proof that proves that it doesn't revolve around me?

The Republic of Lanos wrote:
South Pacific Belschaft wrote:Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.

But does the site revolve around R/D? ;)


Nope. And it certainly doesn't revolve around RP either.

Aurora Confederacy wrote:
Premislyd wrote:
Then the ebil raiders will have to use the Security Council, another in-game mechanic, to get rid of the passwords :ooooooo


given your current flag, that to me says you're more into the gameplay, fair do to that, however what proposal have you got that is hereby constructive that you can bring to the table that helps move this discussion along in a civilised manner that helps bring a solution to the current problem we have of enavling RP regions and RD regions to coexist in harmony with eachother without RD regions wanting to trash RP regions??


I'm not into gameplay.
Just a heads up, I suffer from [insert stereotypical internet illness here], and will use it as an excuse instead of taking responsibility for my actions.
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South Pacific Belschaft
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Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby South Pacific Belschaft » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:48 pm

The Republic of Lanos wrote:
South Pacific Belschaft wrote:Are you fucking serious? RP regions are now so special that they shouldn't have to have founders if they want to be secure?

Who the bloody hell do you people think you are? This site does not revolve around you.

But does the site revolve around R/D? ;)

Of course not. R/D is a marginal aspect of the game that I personally dislike.

The game revolves around regional management, principally via WA mechanics. R/D is tied into that, but peripherally.
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GUARDIAN OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

With the cooperation of Federation Forces, all of your bases now belong to us.

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Registug
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Founded: Feb 25, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Registug » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:48 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
Registug wrote:And I will take all 3000 pages of RMB posts with me

Get an offsite forum then.

And what, put 3000 pages of RMB on that?

the exact number of pages in sapphire is 2990. 25 posts per pages, that comes out to 74, 750 posts on the RMB

what a fucking easy move. Just one click of a mouse and it all appears safe and sound on an offsite forum of my choosing, with no issues of transfer, connection speed, loading times or storage space

Being serious now, I've tried to archive all of that. It won't fit on my computer, it took a year to get 100 pages of 2990 into thirty different word documents, and in the end it was all too big for my google drive.

I don't think you quite understand how immense all those pages are.
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Aurora Confederacy
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Founded: May 14, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aurora Confederacy » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:49 pm

however, my question hereby remains, Premislyd, what can you put on the table that helps move the discussion along in a civilised manner?.

after all you have already been reported for spam
Last edited by Aurora Confederacy on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All storefronts can be found here In my factbook
Factbook: new factbook under construction
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To Pony, off-world and fantasy nations, note; alien beings, fantasy beings can't cross into this universe and write from their perspective, as it's based on a MODERN TECH HUMAN ONLY SETTING SORRY!! This also includes Cloned humans as M/T technology has not progressed in cloning entire humans yet. PS I don't do war RP's either.
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The Floating Island of the Sleeping God
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Founded: Oct 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Floating Island of the Sleeping God » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:51 pm

The Orson Empire wrote:
Premislyd wrote:
Then you'd be forcing them into a game they don't want to play.

Password-protect your regions. Simple.

It's like you're not even trying to pay attention. Haven doesn't want to participate in R/D. It has a password. Mall's proposal wants to remove Haven's password for no reason other than to let raiders in. This would be a precedent for making passwords useless to defend from raiders.
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Esternial
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Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:51 pm

Premislyd wrote:Do you have any proof that proves that it doesn't revolve around me?

Premislyd, please, if you've got nothing interesting to say, don't say anything at all.

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Great Nepal
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Nepal » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:51 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:I sincerely hope that the mod team will not implement exceptions for RP regions (or any regions, for that matter), as this could do serious damage to the R/D Game,

All other aspects of the game have managed just fine under same system.

The North Polish Union wrote:which is just as much a legitimate part of NS as RPing is, and NS as a whole.

Yes which means they should be equal: just like how you can choose not to take part in II, others should be able to choose not to take part in R/D.

The North Polish Union wrote:Its unfair to those who want to play a game if other players wish to opt out of part of it because they don't like it.

So when are you going to get that post up in P2TM or II? I mean if not forcing people to play aspect of game they dislike is unfair then surely it stands to reason that everyone should be forced into RP, General and F7 just like they currently are forced into R/D.
Alternatively we could not do that because its silly, if people want to opt out of an aspect of the game then they should be able to and those with interest in said aspect can continue to play that aspect. This already exist for every aspect of game but R/D and every other aspect of the game has managed to survive and thrive without forcing everyone to participate: why can not R/D do the same?
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Euroslavia
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Postby Euroslavia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:52 pm

I'm heading off of the forums til tomorrow evening, but all I ask is that discussion remain civil and for everyone to exercise extreme caution with taking things personal or throwing out personal attacks. If we can keep this civil, it'll ultimately be a win-win for everyone in sorting things out and determining our best course of action from here on, in keeping this game that we all enjoy innovative and open to the ideas of the community.

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Last edited by Euroslavia on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BRAVE ENOUGH

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South Pacific Belschaft
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Founded: Jun 04, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby South Pacific Belschaft » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:53 pm

The Floating Island of the Sleeping God wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Password-protect your regions. Simple.

It's like you're not even trying to pay attention. Haven doesn't want to participate in R/D. It has a password. Mall's proposal wants to remove Haven's password for no reason other than to let raiders in. This would be a precedent for making passwords useless to defend from raiders.

Which is a great reason to vote against the proposal. It would never have passed.

It is an awful reason to demand special treatment.
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Aurora Confederacy
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Founded: May 14, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aurora Confederacy » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:54 pm

euro can you put that gif in a spoiler please, its making me dizzy,

ps, have a good day :)
All storefronts can be found here In my factbook
Factbook: new factbook under construction
RP'sLife in Barentsburg RP ooc
PLEASE telegram me after you place an order with Order at [ENTER STOREFRONT] please
To Pony, off-world and fantasy nations, note; alien beings, fantasy beings can't cross into this universe and write from their perspective, as it's based on a MODERN TECH HUMAN ONLY SETTING SORRY!! This also includes Cloned humans as M/T technology has not progressed in cloning entire humans yet. PS I don't do war RP's either.
Aurora Confederacy is proud to be a member of the Astyria Region

related nations: Aurora Confederacy State of The Khayr Var Region. - Greater Orcadia

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Premislyd
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Posts: 10456
Founded: Feb 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Premislyd » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:54 pm

Aurora Confederacy wrote:however, my question hereby remains, Premislyd, what can you put on the table that helps move the discussion along in a civilised manner?.


Status quo is fine enough. It's worked since Jolt's days. Just 'cause you younguns got your knickers twisted and feel the need to bitch about it doesn't mean that you should get any special treatment over the non-RP regions.

Esternial wrote:
Premislyd wrote:Do you have any proof that proves that it doesn't revolve around me?

Premislyd, please, if you've got nothing interesting to say, don't say anything at all.


You should heed that comment yourself then, buddy.
Just a heads up, I suffer from [insert stereotypical internet illness here], and will use it as an excuse instead of taking responsibility for my actions.
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Euroslavia
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Posts: 7743
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Euroslavia » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:54 pm

Aurora Confederacy wrote:euro can you put that gif in a spoiler please, its making me dizzy,

ps, have a good day :)

Whoops, good point. Done!
BRAVE ENOUGH

BRAVE ENOUGH

BRAVE ENOUGH

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Aurora Confederacy
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7249
Founded: May 14, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aurora Confederacy » Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:55 pm

thanks. :) Euro
All storefronts can be found here In my factbook
Factbook: new factbook under construction
RP'sLife in Barentsburg RP ooc
PLEASE telegram me after you place an order with Order at [ENTER STOREFRONT] please
To Pony, off-world and fantasy nations, note; alien beings, fantasy beings can't cross into this universe and write from their perspective, as it's based on a MODERN TECH HUMAN ONLY SETTING SORRY!! This also includes Cloned humans as M/T technology has not progressed in cloning entire humans yet. PS I don't do war RP's either.
Aurora Confederacy is proud to be a member of the Astyria Region

related nations: Aurora Confederacy State of The Khayr Var Region. - Greater Orcadia

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Aurora Confederacy
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7249
Founded: May 14, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aurora Confederacy » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:09 pm

The Floating Island of the Sleeping God wrote:
The Orson Empire wrote:Password-protect your regions. Simple.

It's like you're not even trying to pay attention. Haven doesn't want to participate in R/D. It has a password. Mall's proposal wants to remove Haven's password for no reason other than to let raiders in. This would be a precedent for making passwords useless to defend from raiders.


therefore I believe the best option is to bring in an invite system as well as possibly a swearing in of a WAD, this will remove the need for passwords altogether among player founded regions but at the same time stop raiding as in order to get into a region, you first ask the WAD or Founder (or both), they then invite you in and you accept as the WAD/Founder have to un-ban you from a region, this however resets itself to the default when you leave.

Gameplay founded regions and founderless regions will remain unaffected, and so retain the passwords, thus keeping the present status quo, regions where the founder is alive but non resident are still branded under the invite system as just because a founder is non resident doesn't mean he/she is not interested in it, for a regional founder may have moved in order to participate within an RP.
All storefronts can be found here In my factbook
Factbook: new factbook under construction
RP'sLife in Barentsburg RP ooc
PLEASE telegram me after you place an order with Order at [ENTER STOREFRONT] please
To Pony, off-world and fantasy nations, note; alien beings, fantasy beings can't cross into this universe and write from their perspective, as it's based on a MODERN TECH HUMAN ONLY SETTING SORRY!! This also includes Cloned humans as M/T technology has not progressed in cloning entire humans yet. PS I don't do war RP's either.
Aurora Confederacy is proud to be a member of the Astyria Region

related nations: Aurora Confederacy State of The Khayr Var Region. - Greater Orcadia

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The Dark Star Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4339
Founded: Oct 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dark Star Republic » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:15 pm

Premislyd wrote:
Aurora Confederacy wrote:however, my question hereby remains, Premislyd, what can you put on the table that helps move the discussion along in a civilised manner?.


Status quo is fine enough. It's worked since Jolt's days.

That doesn't make any sense. The situation being discussed here only came about a year after the move from Jolt: Liberations weren't introduced until 2009.

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