Discussion about R/D Game and RP Opting Out

[Coraxion]

New Bab. I do not hate you as I'm playing game called Nationstates. Why anyone should hate other Players?

Besides, I try my best for a roleplaying Difficult Role of Purist Extremist Raider Gameplayer.

[Mekhet]

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

A bit of a tip:

No RP as of today since this whole thing started has pranced around their victories. You guys have.

[Great Nepal]

We HAD that option and now Mallorea has declared war on it along with the support of many Raiders such as yourself. And many prominent Raiders too.

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

Yes because that is how wars work in reality, countries pretend regions are soldiers and send them to another country then steal the UN seat followed by spray painting over the work of the old government. Oh and lets not forget the fact that wars only happen at two times in a day and are over within seconds, minutes at tops.
Not that it is relevant. You dont like RP, guess what no one is forcing you to RP. Once the same thing can be said for R/D, I think everyone here goes home happy.

[Pollona]

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

That doesn't entitle Gameplay to force us into your fiction. Try again.

We cannot force you to get involved in our writing, we simply support extending that rule to the game mechanics.

[Vangaziland]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

RPers understand OOC vs IC. The only title we accept is pseudo-writer.. Which even then, we call ourselves RPers and not writers... RPing exists in more than just this website. It's not exploiting a loophole.

[New Babylonia]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

Guess what. I didn't say RP wasn't fiction. I said your little GP R/D game was fiction too. Doesn't matter where they came from, both are fiction, and in neither should a player be celebrated or celebrate themselves like a real war hero.

[Mekhet]

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

A bit of a tip:

No RP as of today since this whole thing started has pranced around their victories. You guys have.

That's because the differences, if we were to give a physical sense to it, R/D is like playing football or something, whereas RP is to writing a novel. Since we're grounded in mechanics it's physical in that context (not literally of course). Roleplay is never physical, except to actually write it.

That doesn't entitle Gameplay to force us into your fiction. Try again.

We cannot force you to get involved in our writing, we simply support extending that rule to the game mechanics.

Never said it did

[Nephmir]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

Yes because that is how wars work in reality, countries pretend nations are soldiers and send them to another country

You both literally just described RP

[Luziyca]

You missed the point there, Luzi... Why should a nation HAVE to defend itself? Nice job expressing your words against me with all that writing. Yet you missed the point.

A region should defend itself because if your only security is a password, and they find out and easily go in and raid, and all you got are those with little to no influence in your region, you are screwed. However, if you have an orderly succession, or make it so most of the native has high influence (which is most likely in cases such as Haven), it will be very difficult to banject or destroy the region. Sure, you can edit the factbook (it should be backed up), and close embassies, but it would be pretty difficult to do much else.

Well, the mods have decided that only the first one should be implemented. And it worked out pretty well until you guys started to complain about how they're behind. Relax. The staff are human. They are unpaid, they are like our collective parents. Our parents are human, they have lots of stress by raising their hellions that are children.

In this case, we, the users, are the children on NS. We should obey what our parents command us to do, for it builds character, maturity, and makes things less stressful for all parties involved. However, just like in real life, many of us are undergoing teenage rebellion. They don't want to follow the orders of our parents, for they think it is stupid, arbitrary, and foolish. We don't play that kind of game. The parents if they face whiny children should eventually STOP giving them what they want and start putting the hammer down.

You may call it censorship, but I call it justice. And if you object to the proposal, if it gets to the floor, vote no, and encourage others to do the same.

Besides, if you guys are scared and want advice for the future regarding the regions, take this advice. I will post what I think in this quote to show why.

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

*nods*

-snip-

Ah, no. This has been a problem since the move to Jolt according to many RPers who have been around since before then.

I suppose. But it was only in the past couple years did I see these threads rise, all demanding change to how NS works. Well, it is best to keep NS as is.

Really. You guys are all asking for special privileges here.

No, it's the raiders -- by insisting that they must be able to force their version of the game onto the rest of us, although nobody can force any other aspect of the game onto them in return -- who are doing that.

So what should we do? Shut down the game? Great idea.

What a bunch of condescending twaddle.

Must second this, with apologies to Luz. Good effort, but the tone in there is...off-putting, to say the least.

Yes, I acknowledge it may be off-putting to some. Point is, what I'm trying to get at is that the mods need to stop acquiescing to the demands. However, I'm personally on the side of "keep calm and carry on," which is why I'm defending the mods, the R&Ders and the roleplayers. But the only acceptable solution is to keep calm, and carry on. If you don't like Liberate Haven, just vote no.

Luziyca, I get what you're doing. You're trying to seem moderate and reasonable and like the Devil's advocate and you're maybe even trying to pander favor with Moderation. But you're just coming off as someone who hasn't read anything and is backbiting against his own community. So knock it off.

First off, I am trying to be reasonable, compared to the unleavened masses who have complained about the status quo and wish to see it change. However, I am not pandering favor with moderation.

Agreed.

Luz, several problems with your 'survey'. A) I don't entirely believe it happened. But for the most part, I assume you did. B) You assume these people knew anything about the situation, or anything about either side. C) You have no way of knowing if telegrammed 200 separate people, or nations. You may tged 200 nations, but only 15 people because you hit their puppets.

And, lastly, I don't believe the percentages either. As you can see, quite a damned sizable percent of the NS community is more than a little displeased right now.

Personally, I'd be interested to see the question used....

The questions "Should the status quo continue?" and "What is wrong with the current situation?"

-snips-

I don';t think this is about people complaining a lot in the past couple of years.

This issue, in particular, needs to be discussed because it is obvious, if the proposal is approved, that a big sector of the population of this forum who has stated time and time again that they wish to remain out of the childish game of raiding and have passworded their regions, will be forced to cater to another sector of the NS population that thinks they have a right to raid regions, even when members of said regions do not want to be raided, just because it ''spices'' up the game and some of these regions are founderless now.

Nope, not cool at all.

Uh, people have. More mods, mods "protecting" certain groups, et cetera.

Also, if it is approved, there is an obvious choice, and that is to vote no, since there is no way in hell or high water will that resolution ever pass. However, the chance of this "proposal" ever getting quorum to get on the floor is nil. And if in the event it somehow passes, it is doubtful that Haven can be raided due to the high influence of the members, meaning it is next to impossible to destroy the region.

I think that what we need to do is end the discussion now, wait at least a few months, then let the cooler heads decide.

[New Babylonia]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

Yes because that is how wars work in reality, countries pretend nations are soldiers and send them to another country

You both literally just described RP

No...
You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

[Stevid]

If that is The case I stand in The Line with Mall. Your behavior and rage is something hardly ever encountered in a GamePlaying Spheres, where unlike you Roleplayers, players use their WA-nations as a 'Soldiers', being personally involved to actions taken, not only in Imagination but also in The Reality of The Game environment.

Reality comes before imagination.

Errr.... this is a game. Not real life. We're all playing on the same medium but have different perspectives of the 'game'. RPers write about a make-believe country and write politics and, well indulge in a bit of creative writing. R/D players have make-believe countries and use them to have fun using game mechanics. It's still a game. A make believe world where pretend nations exist in a social network.

You want reality? I challenge you with this:

Go somewhere public, I dunno, a playing field or beach or something. Find a group of people playing, say, football (or soccer for our American friends). You prance over to them with your American Football and insist to these bunch of strangers, that they play your game. When they say "no thank you" you impose it on them any and throw the ball at them, tackle them etc etc.

In your "reality", what do you think would happen? I'm going to say - at worst....... a savage beating.

[Mekhet]

You both literally just described RP

No...
You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

That's the politics and the propaganda of gameplay.

[Fartsniffage]

The questions "Should the status quo continue?" and "What is wrong with the current situation?"

And that was the entire content of the TG? No context to the questions?

[Nephmir]

You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

Cute

Just because we act like it doesn't mean we think we are. Same with IC, you act like war heroes. But do you think you are? No. Your argument is invalid no matter how many flavors you add to it. Choose a different counter.

[The Grey Wolf]

You disgust me. You are literally comparing clicking buttons on a screen to being a soldier in war. Disgusting. Shame on you. You clearly do not understand what war is. Your little 'wars' are no more reality than our roleplays. Your 'wars' are a fiction you all made up, to create a game. Just like our Roleplay. Actions? By actions, you mean, click buttons? So heroic of you. Such bravery and glory earned.

That's why I hate raiders, they think they deserve then title of a glorious conqueror because they 'conquered' a virtual place by clicking a mouse. Stop that, its ridiculous, and a disgusting comparison.

And please do tell me what in the fuck a RP War is? IIRC, it's fiction you made up, to write a story. The difference is, our "fiction" is grounded into the game's mechanics while your "fiction" is grounded in the written word from the imagination.

Except writing paragraph long post where you have to do research (in some cases.) is a whole lot different than clicking buttons for a few minutes and thinking it makes you a big man all of a sudden. I have never see any rper compare themselves to a soldier, either.

[Vangaziland]

Again there, Luzi... Why should we have to? Raiding shouldn't be an issue. Not everyone wants to be subjected to it and I think that's fair. Don't tell us we need to defend ourselves from a silly game. If people want to play it, I guarantee nobody here has a problem with that. But talking about them as if it's something that needs to be safeguarded against, as if it's their right to violate a password in the first place is wrong... I don't care how condescending you get with it.

[New Babylonia]

You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

Cute

Just because we act like it doesn't mean we think we are. Same with IC, you act like war heroes. But do you think you are? No. Your argument is invalid no matter how many flavors you add to it. Choose a different counter.

When you do it OOC, yes, it does. When we do it IC, its for our nations. Maybe some people still think they are. In reality I find war to be a tragic, glory less conflict that never ends in the cycle of humanity. But I pretend its like all great when I'm IC.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A bit of a tip:

No RP as of today since this whole thing started has pranced around their victories. You guys have.

That's because the differences, if we were to give a physical sense to it, R/D is like playing football or something, whereas RP is to writing a novel. Since we're grounded in mechanics it's physical in that context (not literally of course). Roleplay is never physical, except to actually write it.

And some of us don't fucking like football, some of us like writing.

You can't force us to play football when we don't fucking want to.

[The Grey Wolf]

You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

Cute

Just because we act like it doesn't mean we think we are. Same with IC, you act like war heroes. But do you think you are? No. Your argument is invalid no matter how many flavors you add to it. Choose a different counter.

You have made the mistake of assuming IC and OOC are the same thing. Rping a war hero is not the same as acting like you are one.

Some people don't even do that. My soldiers usually surrender faster than the stereotypical Italian WW2 soldier for example.

[Fartsniffage]

You want reality? I challenge you with this:

Go somewhere public, I dunno, a playing field or beach or something. Find a group of people playing, say, football (or soccer for our American friends). You prance over to them with your American Football and insist to these bunch of strangers, that they play your game. When they say "no thank you" you impose it on them any and throw the ball at them, tackle them etc etc.

In your "reality", what do you think would happen? I'm going to say - at worst....... a savage beating.

Poor analogy. A better one would be a high school american football team approaching a couple of kids quietly reading/writing during lunch hour, telling them to play with them and then stamping on their books/notepads if they refuse.

All with the teacher watching on from the sidelines nodding in approval.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You guys act like war heroes in OOC. That's disgusting. We do it in IC. Kthxbai.

Cute

Just because we act like it doesn't mean we think we are. Same with IC, you act like war heroes. But do you think you are? No. Your argument is invalid no matter how many flavors you add to it. Choose a different counter.

IC is different than OOC; but please, keep spouting the same tripe.

[Delmonte]

You want reality? I challenge you with this:

Go somewhere public, I dunno, a playing field or beach or something. Find a group of people playing, say, football (or soccer for our American friends). You prance over to them with your American Football and insist to these bunch of strangers, that they play your game. When they say "no thank you" you impose it on them any and throw the ball at them, tackle them etc etc.

In your "reality", what do you think would happen? I'm going to say - at worst....... a savage beating.

Poor analogy. A better one would be a high school american football team approaching a couple of kids quietly reading/writing during lunch hour, telling them to play with them and then stamping on their books/notepads if they refuse.

All with the teacher watching on from the sidelines nodding in approval.

Good analogy. Hilarious as well.

[New Babylonia]

You want reality? I challenge you with this:

Go somewhere public, I dunno, a playing field or beach or something. Find a group of people playing, say, football (or soccer for our American friends). You prance over to them with your American Football and insist to these bunch of strangers, that they play your game. When they say "no thank you" you impose it on them any and throw the ball at them, tackle them etc etc.

In your "reality", what do you think would happen? I'm going to say - at worst....... a savage beating.

Poor analogy. A better one would be a high school american football team approaching a couple of kids quietly reading/writing during lunch hour, telling them to play with them and then stamping on their books/notepads if they refuse.

All with the teacher watching on from the sidelines nodding in approval.

Now this, this is a good analogy.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This begs the question: do all raiders want this proposal to pass or is it only one particular group of raiders? I still find the proposal in bad taste and I know it will cause even more division in an already divided forum but other than Coraxion, what's the take of the raiders?