The Rejected Times

[Mallorea and Riva]

Your suggestion that we deliberately pull mods off of important GA legality decisions is a terrible idea.

Why? That's how it's been done before! There was a point in time when there were mods who didn't participate in every single legality decision. There's no rule that all mods must be involved in all decisions. Because that makes appeals impossible, there should actually be an internal rule against it.

Also, Ardchoille's post is BS. There have always been appeals to WA rulings. Her logic doesn't even make sense, because legality rulings do impact whether or not somebody can play the game. You get kicked out of the WA for submitting illegal proposals.

Why would we deliberately weaken our ability to make an informed ruling? It makes more sense to try and prevent bad rulings in the first place. At this point we've strayed sufficiently far from the point of the thread that I'm just going to bow out. If you actually wish to constructively push this point you know what to do, or you can continue to discuss it piecemeal throughout various threads.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Why would we deliberately weaken our ability to make an informed ruling? It makes more sense to try and prevent bad rulings in the first place.

Why does every single mod need to be involved for you guys to make an informed ruling? A single mod should be able to do that. If your process is making appeals impossible, you need to change your process.

At this point we've strayed sufficiently far from the point of the thread that I'm just going to bow out. If you actually wish to constructively push this point you know what to do, or you can continue to discuss it piecemeal throughout various threads.

Or you could do you damn job, or resign if you don't want to. But, hey, I never expected you to change your mind in the first place.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

This is nothing more than a continuation of an age old defender sphere strategy. We're losing so we have to change the game. Can't stop raids at update anymore? We have to change the game. Can't overcome piling? We have to change the game. Can't win the the WA? We have to change the game. Mod requests aren't going our way. We have to change the mod staff.

Just play the damn game. You don't need to worry about moderation because you are not a damn moderator or an admin. You are a player. Play. You will win some. You will lose some. Bitching and moaning every time you lose doesn't make you some kind of genius watchdog. It makes you a lazy, cowardly pussy.

The reason you keep ending up on the short end of the stick is that instead of spending their time crying, your opponents are coming up with newer and better ways to beat you. Try it just one time.

QFT.

Late to the party, I know, but people should check their Doomsday clocks, as one of TRT's issues is going to be pinned to AO's WFE. More for Gruen's article than anything else, but the news on Isis is also interesting.

[Unibot III]

So tempted to quote you on that for TRT's OP.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Eh. What's stopping you?

[The Dourian Embassy]

Why would we deliberately weaken our ability to make an informed ruling? It makes more sense to try and prevent bad rulings in the first place.

Why does every single mod need to be involved for you guys to make an informed ruling? A single mod should be able to do that. If your process is making appeals impossible, you need to change your process.

At this point we've strayed sufficiently far from the point of the thread that I'm just going to bow out. If you actually wish to constructively push this point you know what to do, or you can continue to discuss it piecemeal throughout various threads.

Or you could do you damn job, or resign if you don't want to. But, hey, I never expected you to change your mind in the first place.

What your suggesting, essentially, GR is a process by which moderator rulings you don't like can be overturned. That doesn't work in practice and here's why: It makes little sense for the mods to go through all of the trouble of doing a legality review and then, if the players aren't satisfied with it, allow a single other mod to overturn it. That makes no sense at all. Why not just have a consensus and move on?

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Isis wouldn't fit the sinker theme of mythological figures raised from the dead. It makes more sense to believe that it is simply being squatted on so a region promoting ISIS can't be created.

[Kringalia]

Isis wouldn't fit the sinker theme of mythological figures raised from the dead. It makes more sense to believe that it is simply being squatted on so a region promoting ISIS can't be created.

But Isis was created before ISIS made headlines (or at least like it does now) and while there was a thread about a female-named GCR in Technical. Besides, there are ISIS-themed regions out there.

[The Dark Star Republic]

Isis wouldn't fit the sinker theme of mythological figures raised from the dead.

I don't think the new "female GCR" was definitively said to be a sinker? There was some talk of making another "catcher".

[Tano]

Isis wouldn't fit the sinker theme of mythological figures raised from the dead.

I don't think the new "female GCR" was definitively said to be a sinker? There was some talk of making another "catcher".

I was under the impression that it hadn't even been announced as official. A player (Escade if I recall correctly) proposed it, it was debated, but there was no official ruling on if it was gonna happen. I could be wrong though.

*trawls through forums to find the thread again*

Edit: Having looked through the thread again, I did not seem to find any official admin comment on a new GCR. Some of the mod team seamed to be for it, others against it.

So yeah, guess it doesn't have any substance to it

[Unibot III]

I still think Persephone would be a beautiful name. Testlandia however had founded one of those suggested names which caused a lot of commotion.

[Tano]

I still think Persephone would be a beautiful name. Testlandia however had founded one of those suggested names which caused a lot of commotion.

Aye, or the Roman variant of Proserpina.

[Glen-Rhodes]

What your suggesting, essentially, GR is a process by which moderator rulings you don't like can be overturned.

What I'm "suggesting" is an appeals process that is already supposed to exist. You're free to have the opinion that appeals "make no sense at all." The fact is that appeals have been happening for 6 years, at the very least. A simple forum search shows you've sought an appeal before, too, because you wanted to overturn a moderator decision you didn't like. So your continued attempts to characterize me as some unreasonable guy with sour grapes is just a bit hypocritical.

[The Dourian Embassy]

What your suggesting, essentially, GR is a process by which moderator rulings you don't like can be overturned.

What I'm "suggesting" is an appeals process that is already supposed to exist. You're free to have the opinion that appeals "make no sense at all." The fact is that appeals have been happening for 6 years, at the very least. A simple forum search shows you've sought an appeal before, too, because you wanted to overturn a moderator decision you didn't like. So your continued attempts to characterize me as some unreasonable guy with sour grapes is just a bit hypocritical.

I appealed and got a warning overturned. Not the ruling itself. I accepted the ruling once it was made(disagreed with it thoroughly though), but I didn't accept that I deserved a warning for it. Trying to frame it as anything else but is kinda dishonest.

That said, what you're wanting will weaken the rulings that ARE made. Why is an appeals process on rulings required at all? What is the virtue of it? It will require recusals of moderators on decisions... which makes no sense to me. They ought to be involved from the start and the BEST ruling ought to be handed down from the start, rather than some artificial appeals process because you just assume it'll be better.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I appealed and got a warning overturned. Not the ruling itself. I accepted the ruling once it was made(disagreed with it thoroughly though), but I didn't accept that I deserved a warning for it. Trying to frame it as anything else but is kinda dishonest.

You contested the ruling. Your warning was for submitting an illegal proposal. Therefore, your appeal is linked to your contestation that the ruling was wrong. Ergo, you appealed a ruling.

That said, what you're wanting will weaken the rulings that ARE made.

Um, no, I'm not. I'm saying mods need to do their job the way they used to do it. Rulings weren't "weakened" by the appeals process that has, by the way, existed for years. (Since apparently I have to keep reminding you that appeals aren't new.)

Why is an appeals process on rulings required at all?

Because mods fuck up, and it's a lot easier to reach a bad conclusion when you don't have the benefit of extensive appeals arguments on specific queries.

That's kind of why we have appeals courts in real life, too.

[The Dourian Embassy]

*snip*

Hi. I'm the guy who submitted the actual appeal for my warning. I know what it contained. Are you my doppleganger with full memories of everything I've ever done before? If so, we should have more inside jokes.

Seriously. We're going to go back and forth on this for a while. You've answered a question about "why do appeals improve the process" by saying that extensive appeals arguments improve the process. That's not answering the why.

And if the only answer you have is "mods fuck up" I'll point you to my earlier statement about how they're less likely to do so if everyone is involved from the start.

[Glen-Rhodes]

That's not answering the why.

No, that's not answering to your specific satisfaction, and you will never be satisfied with any answer. But whatever, I'll repeat myself in more words for you.

Appeals benefit the moderators by giving them more debate on specific queries. With more information, they are able to come to a better conclusion than the faulty ruling that was appealed.

It's the same reason why we have appeals courts in the real life.
It's the same reason why you write a draft paper and then do peer editing.
It's the same reason why WA convention is to draft proposals on the forums, so that faults can be found and fixed.

More information = better informed decisions.

[PrussianEmpire]

So TEP elections...the Viceroy just closed the votes and votes are being tallied...thoughts on whos going to win?

[Shadow Afforess]

So TEP elections...the Viceroy just closed the votes and votes are being tallied...thoughts on whos going to win?

The Rejected Times, of course. Newspapers always win, no matter the outcome.

[The North Polish Union]

So TEP elections...the Viceroy just closed the votes and votes are being tallied...thoughts on whos going to win?

It doesn't matter who technically won. We all know that Durk will end up in power no matter what.

[Unibot III]

So TEP elections...the Viceroy just closed the votes and votes are being tallied...thoughts on whos going to win?

Pretty sure it's Rama by my count. Unless some voters are discounted.

[The Rejected Times]

Unofficial Results Project A Ramaeus Win


Supporters of LOOPCOUP 2014™ are lost, dazed and confused. "Where's the Purge?" asks one admirer.

The people of The East Pacific await the official results of the election, standing outside of the palace gates of the Embassy District, nervously clutching their banners and cheering on their candidates. This election will decide the next delegate of The East Pacific.

Jurisdictions, a senior member of the Conclave, has totaled the results of the tight East Pacific race and has projected a win for Ramaeus, 21-18, against Old Federalia. This would mean that Ramaeus narrowly secured a simple majority, but narrowly lost an “absolute majority” (which includes the five abstentions). Ramaeus would be elected delegate under these circumstances.

However, if no candidate secures a simple majority, Jurisdictions has suggested the Magisterium would have to decide the next delegate, which would be an unprecedented event in The East Pacific’s history!

Do note: any election results are not official until the Viceroy, Aelitia, posts the final results and declares the winner which might take as long as twenty-four hours or less than an hour, depending on which way the wind blows… the grass grows… the water flows… or whatever type of divination you choose.

[Nierr]

I'm saying mods need to do their job

A job is usually something you're paid to do.

[The Dark Star Republic]

I'm saying mods need to do their job

A job is usually something you're paid to do.

If I handed out poisoned tins of food at the food bank, I would be criticised, even though I don't work there, I just volunteer. I used to volunteer in a school, but I've never been a paid teacher; still, I had to undergo a CRB check to make sure I wasn't a kiddie-fiddler. "Eh, I'm not being paid, it's ok if I molest them" probably wouldn't have been a very good defence. No one is unappreciative of the time the moderators volunteer but the simple act of volunteering does not make them immune from criticism.

[Misley]

Comparing the actions (or inactions, or whatever) of the moderators in the situation in question and kid-fuckers in schools is about the most ridiculous thing I've seen on this forum.