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Copyright Question [split]

Who needs it, who got it, who hands it out and why.
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Arkolon
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Copyright Question [split]

Postby Arkolon » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:14 am

I wish to post a thread in NSG, but it would require copying out a good portion of Chapter 9 of Anarchy, State, and Utopia (1974). I'm unsure what the rules are on copyright and all that, so I'd like to check here (if it's even the right place) just to, you know, be on the right side of legality here.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Farnhamia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:21 am

You should plaster copyright information all over your post, of course, but the best people to ask are the publishers of the book. I'm sure they have a standard canned answer to questions like this.

I think this is the place to start: http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/subsid ... rmissions/
Last edited by Farnhamia on Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Arkolon
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Postby Arkolon » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:20 am

Farnhamia wrote:You should plaster copyright information all over your post, of course, but the best people to ask are the publishers of the book. I'm sure they have a standard canned answer to questions like this.

I think this is the place to start: http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/subsid ... rmissions/

Yeah, you have to pay or something. I'd rather not, and perhaps sum up the content in my own words instead. Thanks for helping, though.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:20 am

Arkolon wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:You should plaster copyright information all over your post, of course, but the best people to ask are the publishers of the book. I'm sure they have a standard canned answer to questions like this.

I think this is the place to start: http://www.perseusbooksgroup.com/subsid ... rmissions/

Yeah, you have to pay or something. I'd rather not, and perhaps sum up the content in my own words instead. Thanks for helping, though.

Sure, no problem. You can always make specific page references. I don't know how much of the book is available on-line but I did see a browsable version at Amazon. You could refer people there and they could even buy it! Profit!
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Libertarian Police State

Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:49 pm

Arkolon wrote:I wish to post a thread in NSG, but it would require copying out a good portion of Chapter 9 of Anarchy, State, and Utopia (1974). I'm unsure what the rules are on copyright and all that, so I'd like to check here (if it's even the right place) just to, you know, be on the right side of legality here.


Actually, I believe if you simply site it, and put quotes around the entire thing, it SHOULD be acceptable, or am I wrong?
The beatings will continue. Regardless of morale.

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Farnhamia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Farnhamia » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:56 pm

Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Arkolon wrote:I wish to post a thread in NSG, but it would require copying out a good portion of Chapter 9 of Anarchy, State, and Utopia (1974). I'm unsure what the rules are on copyright and all that, so I'd like to check here (if it's even the right place) just to, you know, be on the right side of legality here.


Actually, I believe if you simply site it, and put quotes around the entire thing, it SHOULD be acceptable, or am I wrong?

Maybe, maybe not. For short passages, yes, that's probably fine, but he wants to quote most of an entire chapter. Publishers allow the quoting of short passages for reviews and for papers but to allow large passages to be quoted goes against the idea of protecting their right to copy the work.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Arkolon
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Founded: May 04, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Arkolon » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:01 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Actually, I believe if you simply site it, and put quotes around the entire thing, it SHOULD be acceptable, or am I wrong?

Maybe, maybe not. For short passages, yes, that's probably fine, but he wants to quote most of an entire chapter. Publishers allow the quoting of short passages for reviews and for papers but to allow large passages to be quoted goes against the idea of protecting their right to copy the work.

Well, "large". It's not that large. I can trim it down, too. There's a Wikipedia bitesize synopsis on it, but I feel as if it doesn't have the same authentic grasp as Nozick's pen does. I could use that, though.
"Revisionism is nothing else than a theoretic generalisation made from the angle of the isolated capitalist. Where does this viewpoint belong theoretically if not in vulgar bourgeois economics?"
Rosa Luxemburg

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Die Erworbenen Namen
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Founded: Feb 12, 2014
Libertarian Police State

Postby Die Erworbenen Namen » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:08 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Die erworbenen Namen wrote:
Actually, I believe if you simply site it, and put quotes around the entire thing, it SHOULD be acceptable, or am I wrong?

Maybe, maybe not. For short passages, yes, that's probably fine, but he wants to quote most of an entire chapter. Publishers allow the quoting of short passages for reviews and for papers but to allow large passages to be quoted goes against the idea of protecting their right to copy the work.


Alright. Makes sense
The beatings will continue. Regardless of morale.

Hurtful Thoughts wrote:Also, nominating DEN as ATLAS's Chef Ramses.
The United Remnants of America wrote:I'm collecting friends. Hate to say it, but you qualify.

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Swith Witherward
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Founded: Feb 11, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Swith Witherward » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:01 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Arkolon wrote:Yeah, you have to pay or something. I'd rather not, and perhaps sum up the content in my own words instead. Thanks for helping, though.

Sure, no problem. You can always make specific page references. I don't know how much of the book is available on-line but I did see a browsable version at Amazon. You could refer people there and they could even buy it! Profit!

It's sound advice, Farn.

If you all don't mind me adding some commentary? (If you do, just smack me so I refrain the next time around! *g*)

It would fall under Fair Use if it's being used as a discussion topic, if person using it isn't claiming the work for his own, if the author is cited, and if it's presented as part of a discussion.

"Fair Use is an “affirmative defense”—the defendant copier has the burden of proof to show that Fair Use applies. Essentially he says, “Yes, I copied the work—but I am allowed to because my copying is “Fair Use.”...In fancy words, “It [fair use] was created to allow use of copyright (sic) material for socially valuable purposes such as commentary, parody, news reporting, education and the like, without permission of the copyright holder.” Friedlander, Joel, "What Every Writer Ought to Know about Fair Use and Copyright", The Book Designer, February 8, 2010.

Fair Use is determined on a case-by-case basis. In referencing, it's good habit to not only cite the work and author (as well as page references) but also the source the data was pulled from. Typing passages straight out of the book in front of you needs only the basic citation (Author, book title, publisher, publish date, chapter etc), but if the work is pulled from another source (such as a view from Amazon's 'See Inside'), it's polite to also cite that additional source directly because Amazon has paid for the right to publish excerpts.

Fair Use is only as good as the person's efforts. This means that a person can get squeak by with directly copying material if the reason is backed up. Arkolon or any NSer is capable of dropping in a portion of Chapter 9 of Anarchy, State and Utopia, but they must expand upon the thought. It can't be the copied block of text followed by a simple "I agree. What say you NSG?" Instead, he should make every effort to pad it with discussion points which refer to the copied work, otherwise there's no actual reason to reproduce the work. This can be done a variety of ways.

QUOTE
NS OP's opinion
QUOTE
NS OP's opinion

Or

QUOTE1 QUOTE 2
1. NS OP's opinion
2. NS OP's opinion

or

ENTIRE QUOTE
NS OP's opinion which cites (whatever above). Another statement citing (whatever above). This can be accomplished by something as simple as "[Author] states [quoted passage] and I [agree/disagree] because..."

Even then, an author or publisher can take offense to the reproduced work. Copyright extends beyond words to protect the author's concept as well. That's why things are decided on a case-by-case basis.

edit: fixed code.
Last edited by Swith Witherward on Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Euroslavia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Euroslavia » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:36 pm

Very sound advice, Swith. It's much appreciated. Added this to The One Stop Rules Shop, under the Copyright section:

Additional advice/commentary on "Fair Use" located here.
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