The Rejected Times

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Offsite stuff is offsite, and the identity of the person behind an account on an offsite forum cannot conclusively be connected to a moderator or player. I could register on an offsite forum as "Todd McCloud" and write all kinds of things that would then be attributed to you.

Quoted from the OSRS, emphasis mine:

Impersonation: Any attempt to maliciously impersonate another nation or region, including employing a similar name or attempting to hack nation or region passwords, is illegal according to the FAQ. Passing nations from one player to another is legal, but inadvisable as the receiver also inherits any warning history attached to the nation. Impersonation of moderators can lead to immediate deletion.

It more or less says the same thing in the FAQ, but with less words. Based on the wordage, it seems it'd be illegal to maliciously impersonate another nation / region on the off-site forums as well.

And how, pray tell, would they enforce it?

[Todd McCloud]

Quoted from the OSRS, emphasis mine:


It more or less says the same thing in the FAQ, but with less words. Based on the wordage, it seems it'd be illegal to maliciously impersonate another nation / region on the off-site forums as well.

And how, pray tell, would they enforce it?

With magic. The usual. Or be presented enough information where they're convinced such an event occurred and feel compelled to make a call, I guess.

[The Blaatschapen]

Offsite stuff is offsite, and the identity of the person behind an account on an offsite forum cannot conclusively be connected to a moderator or player. I could register on an offsite forum as "Todd McCloud" and write all kinds of things that would then be attributed to you.

Quoted from the OSRS, emphasis mine:

Impersonation: Any attempt to maliciously impersonate another nation or region, including employing a similar name or attempting to hack nation or region passwords, is illegal according to the FAQ. Passing nations from one player to another is legal, but inadvisable as the receiver also inherits any warning history attached to the nation. Impersonation of moderators can lead to immediate deletion.

It more or less says the same thing in the FAQ, but with less words. Based on the wordage, it seems it'd be illegal to maliciously impersonate another nation / region on the off-site forums as well. Any mod can jump in and provide feedback here - I'm only trying to interpret and obviously don't have any sort of clout behind my words.

The FAQ and OSRS pertain to this site.

[Todd McCloud]

Quoted from the OSRS, emphasis mine:


It more or less says the same thing in the FAQ, but with less words. Based on the wordage, it seems it'd be illegal to maliciously impersonate another nation / region on the off-site forums as well. Any mod can jump in and provide feedback here - I'm only trying to interpret and obviously don't have any sort of clout behind my words.

The FAQ and OSRS pertain to this site.

AH, okay. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Port blood]

Haven't you heard? Gruenberg has had ties to Antarctic Oasis and that means he can be selected to do anything

Seriously though, is there anything in his reporting that you found inaccurate?

I only got partial problems with the article in question;I was more questioning his qualifications as it's a complex problem which should be reported from several expert viewpoints,while this article comes across as random biased crap only worsening things

Does he have programming knowledge so he can offer insight on ethics? a degree in psychology to properly explain the effects it had with the lemming effect? or any knowledge even remotely helpful to add to the conversation?

I expect better from a news outlet

[Glen-Rhodes]

Eh, there were posts in the neutral ground discussion thread about a 'raider mod' where his name came up. He's active in the GA too. It was maybe a little surprising, but I can see the method to the madness so to speak.

It is very easy to see the "method to the madness," once you realize how biased the mods are in choosing their own buddies to join the team. There are plenty of people to chose from in that group of players.

Perhaps he has a speckled past, but many of us do, and how they play the game isn't really an indication as to how they'd manage it.

This, I think, is fairly defeatist. A couple people I talked to hold the same views. While they never would have chosen Mallorea and Riva, and they may think there is some connection between the mods and Antarctic Oasis, they don't think it's a big deal about how the new mods were chosen, as long as they moderate well. However, the truth is that there's no objective way to determine how moderation will change. We cannot see the secret discussions that dictate interpretations of the rules. We are not privy to private conversations or the mod selection process. It is an incredibly opaque area of the game. I think those who assume the worst will generally be more right than those who don't.

I suspect Mallorea and Riva will try to be perceived as a neutral arbiter of justice. It would be crazy for the newly selected mods to come out swinging with massive changes to the way moderation works in the General Assembly. We won't perceive anything particularly damning, because these changes will be slow and unnoticeable until looked at in the aggregate. How these two were chosen, and more important why, is a good indicator of what the impact will be. We should be more skeptical about this process. People see corruption when a businessman meets with a politician, so why should we not see it when Ardchoille gets three people in her friend-group pushed into the mod team?

Source on this? Color me uninformed, but I don't often hear this as a common complaint with the mods.

A few people not within Antarctic Oasis know about the forums. I have seen the threads and have my own archive of them. I have personally known about these threads since 2012, but decided against publishing any of them for the last two years. I was an active author in the World Assembly, and I didn't want to face extra scrutiny from the mods, and I believed people would brush it off as a bitter author angry about a legality decision. However, I'm no longer an active author and I have no plans of becoming one unless the game admins decide to clean house in the mod team. So I have no reason to hold back on publishing them.

Since I mentioned the Auralia thread in particular, here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/view/e35austtbsa28d7/Auralia_(AO).pdf

Offsite stuff is offsite, and the identity of the person behind an account on an offsite forum cannot conclusively be connected to a moderator or player. I could register on an offsite forum as "Todd McCloud" and write all kinds of things that would then be attributed to you.

That would be one way to skirt around the issue. Just deny the account belongs to a moderator, even though it's been used for years and everybody knows it belongs to a moderator.

[Yelda]

Could the OP please change the thread title to "AO Discussion Thread"? Thanks.

[Shadow Afforess]

Haven't you heard? Gruenberg has had ties to Antarctic Oasis and that means he can be selected to do anything

Seriously though, is there anything in his reporting that you found inaccurate?

I only got partial problems with the article in question;I was more questioning his qualifications as it's a complex problem which should be reported from several expert viewpoints,while this article comes across as random biased crap only worsening things

Does he have programming knowledge so he can offer insight on ethics? a degree in psychology to properly explain the effects it had with the lemming effect? or any knowledge even remotely helpful to add to the conversation?

I expect better from a news outlet

You are brandishing skepticism as a weapon, and rather unfairly. One does not need a degree in computer science to evaluate the usefulness of software. Nor does one need a degree in psychology to understand basic phenomena. If only experts could give opinions, no one would be able to say anything.

As a tangent, the lemming effect was not in play in the NS++ survey. Users were not allowed to see the results until after they had submitted the poll.

I'm sure Glen-Rhodes could share his sources with you, Todd. I suspect there is probably a "Todd McCloud" rant thread (I remember a pretty brutal "Kandarin" rant thread). But I'd rather those sources not be brought up here in public - thanks!

If there's not a rant thread on me, I'm clearly not trying hard enough.

[SkyDip]

Two invaders attempted to repeal Commend the Nationstates Community, ergo all invaders hate fun. - Unibot logic

I just gave my last bottle of Bias-Off away.

[Todd McCloud]

-snip-

Oh. Oh those threads. Took a while to jog the memory a little.

This, I think, is fairly defeatist. A couple people I talked to hold the same views. While they never would have chosen Mallorea and Riva, and they may think there is some connection between the mods and Antarctic Oasis, they don't think it's a big deal about how the new mods were chosen, as long as they moderate well. However, the truth is that there's no objective way to determine how moderation will change. We cannot see the secret discussions that dictate interpretations of the rules. We are not privy to private conversations or the mod selection process. It is an incredibly opaque area of the game. I think those who assume the worst will generally be more right than those who don't.

I suspect Mallorea and Riva will try to be perceived as a neutral arbiter of justice. It would be crazy for the newly selected mods to come out swinging with massive changes to the way moderation works in the General Assembly. We won't perceive anything particularly damning, because these changes will be slow and unnoticeable until looked at in the aggregate. How these two were chosen, and more important why, is a good indicator of what the impact will be. We should be more skeptical about this process. People see corruption when a businessman meets with a politician, so why should we not see it when Ardchoille gets three people in her friend-group pushed into the mod team?

Does moderation need to change? I suspect things change slowly over time as new mods are brought in and old ones retire / fade away, but I guess what kind of changes does there need to be? Gameside changes are initiated by Max I think, so not those changes. I haven't really seen a lot of calls about mod bias these days either. If they pick these guys and they (actively) do a good job, then what else needs to happen? Perhaps picking different people then? Maybe diversity will aid in formulating opinion, but the OSRS seems to cover most of that stuff, so... eh. Plus I don't think Sedge or CG was a part of the AO crowd, for instance. Frankly as long as they're active and don't go crazy / use it in game to their advantage and remain relatively unbiased, well, what else?

[Unibot III]

Does moderation need to change? I suspect things change slowly over time as new mods are brought in and old ones retire / fade away, but I guess what kind of changes does there need to be? Gameside changes are initiated by Max I think, so not those changes. I haven't really seen a lot of calls about mod bias these days either. If they pick these guys and they (actively) do a good job, then what else needs to happen? Perhaps picking different people then? Maybe diversity will aid in formulating opinion, but the OSRS seems to cover most of that stuff, so... eh. Plus I don't think Sedge or CG was a part of the AO crowd, for instance. Frankly as long as they're active and don't go crazy / use it in game to their advantage and remain relatively unbiased, well, what else?

We're talking about the General Assembly, where the mods are months behind rulings - and the rulings are making less and less sense. Some of the leaks suggest there are personal politics involved in the rulings. We were told there would be new GA Mods, and lord and beyond, they all came from the same circle of cronies once again.

[Yelda]

Does moderation need to change? I suspect things change slowly over time as new mods are brought in and old ones retire / fade away, but I guess what kind of changes does there need to be? Gameside changes are initiated by Max I think, so not those changes. I haven't really seen a lot of calls about mod bias these days either. If they pick these guys and they (actively) do a good job, then what else needs to happen? Perhaps picking different people then? Maybe diversity will aid in formulating opinion, but the OSRS seems to cover most of that stuff, so... eh. Plus I don't think Sedge or CG was a part of the AO crowd, for instance. Frankly as long as they're active and don't go crazy / use it in game to their advantage and remain relatively unbiased, well, what else?

We're talking about the General Assembly, where the mods are months behind rulings - and the rulings are making less and less sense. Some of the leaks suggest there are personal politics involved in the rulings. We were told there would be new GA Mods, and lord and beyond, they all came from the same circle of cronies once again.

I'm going to work on getting Douria and Kenny modded next. Be patient.

[Solorni]

Is it legal to talk about moderation like this?

[Unibot III]

Well shit, I'm a trilogy. Like the hell I know, I only write the news.

[Coraxion]

Well shit, I'm a trilogy. Like the hell I know, I only write the news.

Ok. Folks! Endo the Pointman. He need get started in his new job!

@Fratt: You Must introduce Uni to secrets what its be as an Executive Delegate. More smoother transition.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Is it legal to talk about moderation like this?

Somebody's already reported the latest edition of TRT for 'not being news' ... I'm sure the mods are reluctant to close a newspaper thread, or dish out warnings, over an article criticizing them.

[The Rejected Times]

Thread closed

[Benevolent Thomas]

If TR Times becomes the go to place for UDL conclave news, you will lose me as a reader. I may be one of the few satisfied readers left. I loved the prior issue by the way. So much opinion and outrage. That's the TR Times we all love to read.

[Alyekra]

I believe I have approval to officially deny any intention of holding another conclave.

[Unibot III]

If TR Times becomes the go to place for UDL conclave news, you will lose me as a reader. I may be one of the few satisfied readers left. I loved the prior issue by the way. So much opinion and outrage. That's the TR Times we all love to read.

Ha, we're unlikely to print leaks. Given the Conclave is done closed doors, the story will be silent for some time.

Thanks. You're not the only one. The moderator discussion and the NS++ discussion, plus the coverage of The North Pacific Elections seems to have hit a nerve. It's good to see some old-timers in the General Assembly coming out too and agreeing with Glen's piece (honestly I thought I was the only one upset with the latest appointments). We've been stuck with a lot of nepotism for years in GA and it's getting downright frustrating - AO can be a hateful little bunch (I mean who really has rant threads...) and the fact that they are way over-represented on our moderation staff is worrying.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Well I didn't say that I did not see any conclave leaks I just do not want TR Times to waste their time reporting on the status of the smoke every goddamn day.

[Unibot III]

Well I didn't say that I did not see any conclave leaks I just do not want TR Times to waste their time reporting on the status of the smoke every goddamn day.

Oh christ that would be boring.

[BadNewsBarrett]

Well I didn't say that I did not see any conclave leaks I just do not want TR Times to waste their time reporting on the status of the smoke every goddamn day.

You thought tRR's newspaper was going to be solely on tRR news? Well I'm afraid I have some bad news...

[Benevolent Thomas]

Well I didn't say that I did not see any conclave leaks I just do not want TR Times to waste their time reporting on the status of the smoke every goddamn day.

You thought tRR's newspaper was going to be solely on tRR news? Well I'm afraid I have some bad news...

Is that what I said?

[Shadow Afforess]

Well I didn't say that I did not see any conclave leaks I just do not want TR Times to waste their time reporting on the status of the smoke every goddamn day.

Bah. I hope this newspaper ignores the fickle passions of a few and continues their current course. It would be a tragedy to see TRR succumb to populism.

The moderator discussion and the NS++ discussion, plus the coverage of The North Pacific Elections seems to have hit a nerve.

I'm firmly in the belief that 98.5% of the people who dislike me and NS++ are upset because they couldn't hope to match my success, and even if they could, would want to corrupt it for their ends. How it galls them that I give the common user information and with it, the truth.