Traveller's Café 2: Discussion, tea, brainstorming & advice

[The Broken Russian States]

BAck from getting shot in the ass! Wow, a lot happened (Not really).

What about that one Cod? Back when the series was actually interesting?

That wasn't the whole game though; only half of it.

That was World War two, and really, the Soviet Union won the war, not the United States and what would soon be NATO

Oh here we go again. Lets say it was the Soviet Union all by their lonesome that won the war. They certainly did not have a lot of help from the US.

It would again be the USSR + PRC, and NATO would lose horribly.

That's because the bad guy always loses.

1: Doesnt involve me
2: They did have that Murican assistance, but the actual victory goes to Russia
3: I guess

[Altito Asmoro]

In 1824, the Ottoman Empire crushes the Greek War of Independence, setting up ripples through European, — and soon, world — history.

For its help in the war, Egypt gains Morea and Crete but not Syria. Wins the First Egyptian-Ottoman War, but stops at Konya after British gunboat diplomacy. Thousands of Greek slaves are deported to Egypt and replaced with Arab settlers. Syria chafes under Egyptian modernisation.

Egypt forced to give up Syria and the Hejaz in Second Egyptian-Ottoman War after European threat of military intervention. Keeps Morea, Crete, gains Cyprus and several freedoms, including the ability to contract foreign loans. France, which initially intervened on Egypt's behalf militarily for Greece and Syrian Catholics, gets a dose of British gunboat diplomacy, backing down and compelled by treaty never to intervene in Egyptian affairs again.

The Suez Canal is not constructed. Egyptian floating debt butterflied, replaced by foreign loan of several million in modernisation costs. Britain remains apprehensive.

***

Now, are there any problems with this hypothesis? Where do I go from here? What are the possible ramifications? Without the Suez Canal, how would the Scramble for Africa have turned out? Is there enough squeeze room for a French-backed Shogun victory in the Boshin War? How about a Belgian invasion of the Philippines during the Carlist Revolutions?

More importantly, how do I get to the WWI-era endgame where a British-German-Ottoman Triple Alliance faces a French-Russian-Italian Entente? Would it have been the Ottomans or Austria on Germany's side? Would Italy have committed to this new Entente?

Aren't Belgian still part of Netherlands? They split up on 1830

[The Tiger Kingdom]

You know the Soviets and PRC hated each other, right?

They hated the USA more

No, they actually didn't. Russia and China got in an actual shooting war (well, border skirmishes, but still). China made the decision to actually warm up to the US as a direct response to these conflicts in the 70s instead of trying pan-Communist friendliness and make nice with Russia, hence Nixon going to China and the US opening relations. Mao's China would have literally preferred being friends with the USA than attempt the same with Russia.
The Russians and the Chinese hated each other from the word go. Neither of them trusted the other at all, and were almost always at each others' throats.

1: Doesnt involve me
2: They did have that Murican assistance, but the actual victory goes to Russia

Russia owes a massive part of their victory to US and British aid. Russians don't like to admit it, but we handed them a shitload, no payment needed, when they were losing left and right. Meanwhile, the West pinned down most of the Luftwaffe, crippled German industry, drew off a massive fraction of the German Army, crippled the German Navy, and tangled with the majority of elite SS/Fallschirmjaeger units as well (to be fair, these did move around a bit, but not much).
It was the definition of a collaborative victory. The Allies couldn't have won (without the bomb, anyway, at least for the foreseeable future in 1942 or so) without the USSR. The reverse also applies.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

In 1824, the Ottoman Empire crushes the Greek War of Independence, setting up ripples through European, — and soon, world — history.

For its help in the war, Egypt gains Morea and Crete but not Syria. Wins the First Egyptian-Ottoman War, but stops at Konya after British gunboat diplomacy. Thousands of Greek slaves are deported to Egypt and replaced with Arab settlers. Syria chafes under Egyptian modernisation.

Egypt forced to give up Syria and the Hejaz in Second Egyptian-Ottoman War after European threat of military intervention. Keeps Morea, Crete, gains Cyprus and several freedoms, including the ability to contract foreign loans. France, which initially intervened on Egypt's behalf militarily for Greece and Syrian Catholics, gets a dose of British gunboat diplomacy, backing down and compelled by treaty never to intervene in Egyptian affairs again.

The Suez Canal is not constructed. Egyptian floating debt butterflied, replaced by foreign loan of several million in modernisation costs. Britain remains apprehensive.

***

Now, are there any problems with this hypothesis? Where do I go from here? What are the possible ramifications? Without the Suez Canal, how would the Scramble for Africa have turned out? Is there enough squeeze room for a French-backed Shogun victory in the Boshin War? How about a Belgian invasion of the Philippines during the Carlist Revolutions?

More importantly, how do I get to the WWI-era endgame where a British-German-Ottoman Triple Alliance faces a French-Russian-Italian Entente? Would it have been the Ottomans or Austria on Germany's side? Would Italy have committed to this new Entente?

Aren't Belgian still part of Netherlands? They split up on 1830

Belgium was too important to British interests, so they would have split off like the OTL, yes.

EDIT: But a Dutch Benelux ruling the East Indies sounds cool.

[Benuty]

I do wonder...are the moderators still uptight about how violent a role play can be?

[Constaniana]

I do wonder...are the moderators still uptight about how violent a role play can be?

There are limits on gore, yes.

[Grenartia]

What about that one Cod? Back when the series was actually interesting?

That was World War two, and really, the Soviet Union won the war, not the United States and what would soon be NATO

The Soviet Union only won the Eastern Front in the European Theater And even then, they'd have had a much harder time of it had the Western allies not opened up that second front.

As for the Pacific, that was almost singlehandedly the US.

That was World War two, and really, the Soviet Union won the war, not the United States and what would soon be NATO

Not...really!

You know the Soviets and PRC hated each other, right?

They also didn't have any kind of Navy back then, really, much less one capable of getting past Japan (much less Hawaii)...

Pretty much the only way the USSR and PRC (assuming they could actually work together in the first place) could invade would be through Alaska. And they'd be facing fierce resistance the whole damn way. And almost certainly nukes.

They hated the USA more

No, they actually didn't. Russia and China got in an actual shooting war (well, border skirmishes, but still). China made the decision to actually warm up to the US as a direct response to these conflicts in the 70s instead of trying pan-Communist friendliness and make nice with Russia, hence Nixon going to China and the US opening relations. Mao's China would have literally preferred being friends with the USA than attempt the same with Russia.
The Russians and the Chinese hated each other from the word go. Neither of them trusted the other at all, and were almost always at each others' throats.

1: Doesnt involve me
2: They did have that Murican assistance, but the actual victory goes to Russia

Russia owes a massive part of their victory to US and British aid. Russians don't like to admit it, but we handed them a shitload, no payment needed, when they were losing left and right. Meanwhile, the West pinned down most of the Luftwaffe, crippled German industry, drew off a massive fraction of the German Army, crippled the German Navy, and tangled with the majority of elite SS/Fallschirmjaeger units as well (to be fair, these did move around a bit, but not much).
It was the definition of a collaborative victory. The Allies couldn't have won (without the bomb, anyway, at least for the foreseeable future in 1942 or so) without the USSR. The reverse also applies.

As always with regards to this subject, Tigger hits the nail on the head.

[Benuty]

I do wonder...are the moderators still uptight about how violent a role play can be?

There are limits on gore, yes.

Oh dear that may put a hamper on things. Now for the sake of decency it isn't mortal kombat gore I had in mind. Essentially I have been watching some movies the past few days especially the 1970s Wicker Man. I have slowly formed an arc in a chapter based roleplay which involves battling a human sacrificial cult in a plague ridden apocalyptic southern united states.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I do wonder...are the moderators still uptight about how violent a role play can be?

Somewhat.

You can do quite a lot as long as you don't do it unnecessarily (gore for the sake of gore) and don't cross an unwritten line. Basically, if you have some serious doubts about posting it, don't.

[The Grey Wolf]

I do wonder...are the moderators still uptight about how violent a role play can be?

Somewhat.

You can do quite a lot as long as you don't do it unnecessarily (gore for the sake of gore) and don't cross an unwritten line. Basically, if you have some serious doubts about posting it, don't.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure basically.

[Benuty]

Somewhat.

You can do quite a lot as long as you don't do it unnecessarily (gore for the sake of gore) and don't cross an unwritten line. Basically, if you have some serious doubts about posting it, don't.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure basically.

Perhaps, thankfully the roleplay isn't intent on be overtly violent. I admit the inspiration was more disturbing than it was violent when compared to that horrible remake.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

-Snips-

Considering that if we continue this thread shall devolve into a Russia v US argument, lets just agreeto disagree that you are wrong. Because you are. Commie.

[Alleniana]

What is everyone here's outlook on politics within RP? Being NS, politics pervades everything, but I often find it pays to keep it out of OOC, and to an extent, even use more effort and the like rather than realism for IC judgements on it.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

What is everyone here's outlook on politics within RP? Being NS, politics pervades everything, but I often find it pays to keep it out of OOC, and to an extent, even use more effort and the like rather than realism for IC judgements on it.

Do you mean a ban on politician discussion?

[Alleniana]

What is everyone here's outlook on politics within RP? Being NS, politics pervades everything, but I often find it pays to keep it out of OOC, and to an extent, even use more effort and the like rather than realism for IC judgements on it.

Do you mean a ban on politician discussion?

Not so much a ban as asking people to keep it out of the OOC; they generally do so.

Though it's often an issue, seeing as IC politics must be debated on, for realism. What is the P2TMer community's thoughts on this?

[Agritum]

What is everyone here's outlook on politics within RP? Being NS, politics pervades everything, but I often find it pays to keep it out of OOC, and to an extent, even use more effort and the like rather than realism for IC judgements on it.

Keep politics out of the OOC, but welcome it in the IC if it's discussed well and fits the setting. It makes for more depth.

[Alleniana]

What is everyone here's outlook on politics within RP? Being NS, politics pervades everything, but I often find it pays to keep it out of OOC, and to an extent, even use more effort and the like rather than realism for IC judgements on it.

Keep politics out of the OOC, but welcome it in the IC if it's discussed well and fits the setting. It makes for more depth.

But, especially in nation RPs, you have to discuss the political consequences of IC actions, and that, inevitably, leads to players disagreeing; sort of like armchair general issues ported to politics. It's a terrible problem.

p.s.
Just so people don't start offering sympathy or misunderstanding, I'm only bringing this up as an interesting topic, I don't actually have this as a major issue atm.

[Altito Asmoro]

Aren't Belgian still part of Netherlands? They split up on 1830

Belgium was too important to British interests, so they would have split off like the OTL, yes.

EDIT: But a Dutch Benelux ruling the East Indies sounds cool.

It will be interesting to see.

[Natair]

There's one problem though. I have no idea how to RP the sarge(whose name is Sarge) in a PG-13 manner.

This is the P2TM. PG-13 can have a very broad meaning.

Dude, that would be just... incredibly hilarious. If you're talking about the Sarge of such great fame...

[The Nation of Hay]

This is the P2TM. PG-13 can have a very broad meaning.

Dude, that would be just... incredibly hilarious. If you're talking about the Sarge of such great fame...

You just got Sarged?

[The Broken Russian States]

Keep politics out of the OOC, but welcome it in the IC if it's discussed well and fits the setting. It makes for more depth.

But, especially in nation RPs, you have to discuss the political consequences of IC actions, and that, inevitably, leads to players disagreeing; sort of like armchair general issues ported to politics. It's a terrible problem.

p.s.
Just so people don't start offering sympathy or misunderstanding, I'm only bringing this up as an interesting topic, I don't actually have this as a major issue atm.

That's why you make a party you can do whatever you want with and slowly get them into power >:D

[Alleniana]

But, especially in nation RPs, you have to discuss the political consequences of IC actions, and that, inevitably, leads to players disagreeing; sort of like armchair general issues ported to politics. It's a terrible problem.

p.s.
Just so people don't start offering sympathy or misunderstanding, I'm only bringing this up as an interesting topic, I don't actually have this as a major issue atm.

That's why you make a party you can do whatever you want with and slowly get them into power >:D

I am not into comprehend

[Zeinbrad]

I am for some reason getting the idea of making an idea based off those green and yellow toy soldiers, and the (Mostly sucky) 3DO games.

[Fraire]

What fi I made an RP where everything rhymes? Everyone has to post in rhymes and even the OP itself rhymes.....the rules will be so hard to make, though.....but I don't care

[The Nation of Hay]

What fi I made an RP where everything rhymes? Everyone has to post in rhymes and even the OP itself rhymes.....the rules will be so hard to make, though.....but I don't care

I do declare, for that I would care.