NS infantry discussion thread. Mark II

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Here's an interesting bit on the FN303 they seem to praise it TBH.

In practice it seems to be too powerful for short ranges and too inaccurate for long ranges . . . but really, let's get over with it.

You make or hard when you advocate using less lethal weapons in ways that will increase their chance of killing someone and think that that's okay because at least you aren't giving them a heart attack.

What? I don't understand.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

I hope someone in the squad has a more powerful weapon, but it is an attractive idea on paper.

Worry not, each squad maintains an *HK21, *MSG90 and PAW20. Too, near everyone carries an RPG22.

A big part of the microcaliber switch is to lighten the rifleman's load, to allow for the carrying of more MG and GL ammunition.

*Each in 7.92mm Mauser

[Aqizithiuda]

You make or hard when you advocate using less lethal weapons in ways that will increase their chance of killing someone and think that that's okay because at least you aren't giving them a heart attack.

What? I don't understand.

You advocate shooting someone in the abdomen, where the chance of internal injury is highest, over the thorax, where the chance of internal injury is comparatively low, because you don't want to induce Tachycardia Arrythmia.

I hope someone in the squad has a more powerful weapon, but it is an attractive idea on paper.

Worry not, each squad maintains an *HK21, *MSG90 and PAW20. Too, near everyone carries an RPG22.

A big part of the microcaliber switch is to lighten the rifleman's load, to allow for the carrying of more MG and GL ammunition.

*Each in 7.92mm Mauser

Carry on, then.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

Carry on, then.

Alright then.

[Aqizithiuda]

Carry on, then.

Alright then.

I would advise airgaps in FMJ rounds and spoontips in AP rounds, though, to maximise terminal effects.

[The Archangel Conglomerate]

I would advise airgaps in FMJ rounds and spoontips in AP rounds, though, to maximise terminal effects.

The current plan is to use solid brass projectiles with spoon tips for the standard ball. AP was going to be either an MK318 SOST style bullet with WC core, or APCR style bullet with WC penetrator, alu outer core and brass jacket.

What specific gravity would you suggest for brass bullets? Wiki claims between 8.73g/cm and 8.04g/cm.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

What? I don't understand.

You advocate shooting someone in the abdomen, where the chance of internal injury is highest, over the thorax, where the chance of internal injury is comparatively low, because you don't want to induce Tachycardia Arrythmia.

Worry not, each squad maintains an *HK21, *MSG90 and PAW20. Too, near everyone carries an RPG22.

A big part of the microcaliber switch is to lighten the rifleman's load, to allow for the carrying of more MG and GL ammunition.

*Each in 7.92mm Mauser

Carry on, then.

I understand that the phenomenon is relatively rare, but is it the only way cardiac arrest may occur as a result of a less lethal projectile hitting the heart or are there others?

Really, once you take everything into account, the legs are the best to aim for. If you miss an individual's upper arms or upper torso you're relatively close to his (or others', assuming he's in a crowd) neck & head area.

[Rich and Corporations]

understand that the phenomenon is relatively rare, but is it the only way cardiac arrest may occur as a result of a less lethal projectile hitting the heart or are there others?

Bloodloss.

And really, in stressful situations, guns are terribly inaccurate, or rather the shooter is.
A small percentage of soldiers are responsible for the majority of kills.

[Kouralia]

You advocate shooting someone in the abdomen, where the chance of internal injury is highest, over the thorax, where the chance of internal injury is comparatively low, because you don't want to induce Tachycardia Arrythmia.



Carry on, then.

I understand that the phenomenon is relatively rare, but is it the only way cardiac arrest may occur as a result of a less lethal projectile hitting the heart or are there others?

Really, once you take everything into account, the legs are the best to aim for. If you miss an individual's upper arms or upper torso you're relatively close to his (or others', assuming he's in a crowd) neck & head area.

But what if you miss his legs and then he stabs you? After all, the legs of a moving target are harder to hit than the torso.

[Sediczja]

This seems quite interesting and relevant to the discussion.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/train ... l-training

Don't know how much water it holds though.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I understand that the phenomenon is relatively rare, but is it the only way cardiac arrest may occur as a result of a less lethal projectile hitting the heart or are there others?

Really, once you take everything into account, the legs are the best to aim for. If you miss an individual's upper arms or upper torso you're relatively close to his (or others', assuming he's in a crowd) neck & head area.

But what if you miss his legs and then he stabs you? After all, the legs of a moving target are harder to hit than the torso.

I was under the impression we were discussing use on unarmed (or at most, armed with something to throw or a stick) targets at safe ranges, where the policemen are "picking out" targets in a crowd, not a self defense scenario. And of course brandishing a knife warrants lethal force.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

I think we could use these as an alternative to horses for the smaller mounted officers

[Kouralia]

Query: What are people's special infantry? By this I don't mean 'Special Forces', I mean the nearly Special Forces. So, for the US I don't mean Force Recon or Delta Force, I mean the USMC (erreh marine a rifle marine amirite?) and the Rangers. For the UK I don't mean the SAS or SBS, I mean the Paras and the Royal Marines. People who still fight in battalion formations etc. in the line, but who are regarded as considerably more elite than the usual infantry regiments (i.e. the Paras are more elite than the Royal Regiment of Scotland).

In Kouralia we have three main regiments that fulfill this role: the Royal Guard, the Silverfin Guard Commandos and the North Altonian Airborne Regiment (aka the 'Snowflakes'). The Royal Guard fulfill the role of the Guards Division in the UK - guarding royal palaces with bayonets fixed and magazines fitted while wearing fancy uniforms. However, they're not merely regular soldiers like in the UK: on top of the usual training, the Royal Guards receive their two weeks drill and ceremonial training, and then an additional month and a half's law enforcement training. Every Royal Guardsman has the office of Constable and is expected to perform policing actions with as much skill as he would perform a bayonet assault. The Silverfin Guard Commandos don't make up all of the Kouralian Amphibious forces, however they provide all of the Fleet Protection Group elements, and are all trained as Commandos on top of their usual training. The Silverfins' claret beret is universally acknowledged in Kouralia as the symbol of the Army Commando Division, and all Commando-trained forces are authorised to wear it with their usual cap-badge. Finally, the 'Snowflakes' are the 'original' Paras in the Kouralian army, a mountain-warfare regiment (it was believed they'd have the most ability to deal with extreme heights) selected to be the first unit to train in deployment from aircraft in the '20s and '30s. By the time they were solidified as the designated air-borne forces their entire regiment was trained in parachuting, and their white beret became synonymous with the airborne forces. All paratroopers in Kouralia either originate from the North Altonian, or wear the white beret with their usual cap badge if they are para-trained Engineers, for example.

[Imperializt Russia]

Do you train your grunts in ambidextrously firing their rifles? I keep on hearing about it and realize its' benefits (firing around corners on your dominant side, if losing dexterity in one b/c of injury or whatever, etc) but is it something that's really mastered and used in actual combat? It just sounds like a hard thing to pull of consistently, that's all.

This struck me while I was contemplating chest-mounted knife sheaths (pic related)

(Image)

for my grunts, and seeing how that setup could prove uncomfortable (rifle stock sits on knife instead of shoulder), I was going to make right-handed grunts place the knife on the left side of their torso and vice versa. But it would still get in the way for this ambidextrous firing I'm hearing about.

probably the easiest solution would be to place the knife on the off shoulder. allowing for ambidexterity during use would require your rifles to have either a bottom ejection or a mechanism to switch the side the ejector is on that is able to be used mid-firefight. If you don't have one of those two, someone is gonna get a face full of hot casings.

Pretty sure this discussion has come up before, and there turned out to be no benefit to having your knife way up there. It's difficult to grab there. Why not just have it on your belt? The only real reason you'd put it there is because you think you'd look imposing.

[United states of brazilian nations]

so people, turns out i really had screwed up with calculations. i made some other quick calculations, some rough estimates on compressed powder etc. and reached a result, i guess.

so, as this thing uses compressed powder, hot loads, i'll sure have to make its walls ticker, but whatsoever. i managed to get some good estimates while basing it around the 6.8 SPC that would be a very close counterpart to mine.

the result is here.

i'm a ballistics illiterate so i really don't know how to "read" these numbers. for a STANAG-compatible, 5.56x45mm NATO based cartridge, is this performance good, acceptable, meh, sub-par or utter crap?

It's pretty decent round. What are the dimensions of the case and the projectile?

well, that's where it gets complicated: all my attempts to accurately calculate its case capacity have failed, and as such i had to take a shot in the dark and estimate it based in other rounds. then i decided to use compressed-powder hot loads in order to achieve decent muzzle velocity. again, i estimated this. i do know i'll have to make the walls ticker in order to stand the higher pressures, though.

here are the dimensions: (you'll notice that the case diameter is 0.4 mm bigger than the 5.56mm NATO's case, but it is such a small difference that i think it will still be able to be fed through STANAG magazines)

base and rim diameter: 10mm
rim tickness: 1mm
"straight" case part lenght (from the extractor groove to the shoulder base): 30mm
shoulder case part lenght: 5mm
shoulder base diameter: 10mm
shoulder top diameter: 8mm
neck lenght: 5mm
neck diameter: 8mm
overall case lenght: 41mm

bullet diameter: 7mm
bullet lenght: 25mm
moar info on boolit (WARNING: not-metric to avoid bugs with calculator)
moar info on boolit, metric
i decided to go with a lead core, yeah.


overall cartridge lenght: 57.40mm

[Kouralia]

probably the easiest solution would be to place the knife on the off shoulder. allowing for ambidexterity during use would require your rifles to have either a bottom ejection or a mechanism to switch the side the ejector is on that is able to be used mid-firefight. If you don't have one of those two, someone is gonna get a face full of hot casings.

Pretty sure this discussion has come up before, and there turned out to be no benefit to having your knife way up there. It's difficult to grab there. Why not just have it on your belt? The only real reason you'd put it there is because you think you'd look imposing.

Kouralian soldiers either have it attached to their webbing between their first and second triple-mag pouches, or attached on top of their rear utility pouches. The former is typically used by the Infantry, and the latter by other people who perform trades where having a ten-inch blade and scabbard would be detrimental to performing their jobs (e.g. an Engineer might not like it getting in his way).

[United states of brazilian nations]

Query: What are people's special infantry? By this I don't mean 'Special Forces', I mean the nearly Special Forces. So, for the US I don't mean Force Recon or Delta Force, I mean the USMC (erreh marine a rifle marine amirite?) and the Rangers. For the UK I don't mean the SAS or SBS, I mean the Paras and the Royal Marines. People who still fight in battalion formations etc. in the line, but who are regarded as considerably more elite than the usual infantry regiments (i.e. the Paras are more elite than the Royal Regiment of Scotland).

though i still have to mess with my military organization, there are already a few groups i've been thinking of that would fullfil this.

we would have the Fuzileiros Navais (Naval Fusiliers, AKA Marines), Infantaria Pára-Quedista (paratrooper infantry), and some others i still have to think of.

one of them is got to be called the HUEHUE regiment. but i guess these will be true special forces.

speaking of which, have a USBN soldier.
i know, i suck at hand-drawning.

i know, i know, i drawn him with the brazilian flag instead of the USBN flag. why? i had intended to make a little... backstory on this.

"that day, when we got word the argentinians attacked, we immediately jumped in the APCs and started to ride towards the western frontline. while passing through a highway, some platoons - including ours - were ordered to dismount from the APCs in order to scout for possible enemy positions. we then got word by radio that an enemy position had, indeed, been spotted. i looked at my right and i saw the platoon commander at the top of a small hill, yelling, pointing at the enemy position and holding the brazilian flag. he was fearless, as if he didn't care if he took a bullet or not, calling us to charge towards the enemy position. when i saw that, i felt something warm in my heart - a feeling of hope - and was certain that this country wasn't lost yet. we still have patriots."

[Sediczja]

Belt kit? Belt kit.

No yoke because Sketchup is pretty frustrating for stuff like that.

EDIT: Added spoiler tag

[Kouralia]

one of them is got to be called the HUEHUE regiment. but i guess these will be true special forces.

"As we lay in our MG positions I saw a hostile Officer stand heroically upon a hill, waving the Brazilian flag towards us like the enemy dog he was, calling his men to charge. I prepared to open up on him with my MG when a rustle in the jungle nearby made me look around in shock. All of my section lay dead, and there was only one thing to suggest what it was that had killed them - a combat knife through the heart of my Corporal, pinning a cap badge to his chest. I don't know why, and I'm ashamed to say it, but I surrendered right off. There was something just... Even to this day I see the image of my section, killed without a sound - and I'll forever be haunted by the six letters on the cap-badge: "

H.U.E.
-
H.U.E.

[United states of brazilian nations]

one of them is got to be called the HUEHUE regiment. but i guess these will be true special forces.

"As we lay in our MG positions I saw a hostile Officer stand heroically upon a hill, waving the Brazilian flag towards us like the enemy dog he was, calling his men to charge. I prepared to open up on him with my MG when a rustle in the jungle nearby made me look around in shock. All of my section lay dead, and there was only one thing to suggest what it was that had killed them - a combat knife through the heart of my Corporal, pinning a cap badge to his chest. I don't know why, and I'm ashamed to say it, but I surrendered right off. There was something just... Even to this day I see the image of my section, killed without a sound - and I'll forever be haunted by the six letters on the cap-badge: "

H.U.E.
-
H.U.E.

man, this gotta go to my sig. i HUE'd.

EDIT: sig'd.

AHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE now seriously, a fine piece of text. if you allow me to, i'll include this in the description when i decide to art such regiment. full credit to you, of course.

[Purpelia]

Random question time.

As you may remember, I have inquired before about bullets made completely out of steel. And the conclusion we reached is that they would suck because they would be too light for their own good (light = inaccurate) and the lack of a copper jacket means a lack of lubrication in the barrel meaning bad things.

So here is a related question. Say I wanted to make my projectile light for what ever reason. The exact reason does not matter but I do. How would a copper jacketed all steel bullet perform? As in you have a copper jacket and a solid chunk of steel inside without any lead.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

probably the easiest solution would be to place the knife on the off shoulder. allowing for ambidexterity during use would require your rifles to have either a bottom ejection or a mechanism to switch the side the ejector is on that is able to be used mid-firefight. If you don't have one of those two, someone is gonna get a face full of hot casings.

Pretty sure this discussion has come up before, and there turned out to be no benefit to having your knife way up there. It's difficult to grab there. Why not just have it on your belt? The only real reason you'd put it there is because you think you'd look imposing.

it's supposed to be a matter of IC tradition or something, and I don't see any reason why it would be harder to grab than with a belt sheath. The blade will be pointing upwards (so you cross-draw downwards).

[Imperializt Russia]

Then that just takes up lots of grenade space. Or minor things that you might otherwise keep in those pockets. Things you could carry easily if you left the knife on your belt.

[Ea90]

lol it's only a prototype

best
post
ever

[Kouralia]

lol it's only a prototype

best
post
ever

Unfortunately I missed the joke, what's it referencing?