AMW Big Discussion Thread

[The Crooked Beat]

For what it matters, I would definitely encourage Quinntonia, if he intends to keep going with AMW, to downsize his claim somewhat. There's no need to remain wedded to the whole of the United States, and I think the absence of any clear-cut superpowers would be very refreshing for the community as a whole. After all, Quinntonia wouldn't have to worry about competing with a communist India and its hundreds of millions of people, and a smaller USQ would allow room for other players to move-in and help to create a kind of political situation in the Americas that we've never seen before in AMW. The final decision, though, is of course up to Quinntonia. Likewise I strongly support Mac's Spanish proposal. France, Italy and Greece are powerful enough each on its own, and the three of them together, allied with Kievan Rus, will allow the Monarchists to dominate the European continent. If Quinn decides to adopt a smaller claim in the Americas, all the more reason for Rome to downsize along similar lines, although again it will be up to Vecron.

Also, it is very nice to hear from you, Tias, after such a long absence. I hope everything turns out alright in the real world, and that you start RPing again sooner rather than later.

Regarding the second world war in the pacific, would it make sense for us to work off the idea that ABDA Command was more successful, and that the Japanese advance was halted in the Dutch East Indies, or even in Malaya? That might serve to set us up for a more limited, not quite as passionate conflict fought mainly in China and Southeast Asia, where the allied powers were more willing to sue for a conditional surrender and where Quinntonian support might not have been so vital in averting total disaster. Those are just my two cents anyway. It certainly looks like Christian Japan is fitting snugly into our little community after all.

As for myself, I think I'm going to claim Iran, minus Sistan and Baluchistan, as my nation, along with the highly-negotiable overseas possessions of the Socotra and Prince Edward islands, and the small town of Bekdash/Garabogaz in Turkmenistan. Total population is in the region of 68 million people. How does that sit with everyone?

[Beth Gellert]

If you're happy with it, and have ideas to run with in Iran et cetera, I'm behind your claim in full, of course, TCB. I'll have a go at colouring in my rough map to include that. What's the deal with this claim? I mean, what's it called, and so on?

Minor note, we should be careful about referencing such things as the Dutch East Indies, as currently there's no such thing as the Dutch, right? We might end up with the Low Countries Spanish, Celtic, or Hunnic, yet Similar for unclaimed parts of the world that Japan might have attacked during the war. A lot has to remain vague until they're actually claimed.

[The Crooked Beat]

Indeed, sorry for getting ahead of things there.

I'm sure Dra-pol and Skeelzania are perfectly capable of hashing-out their shared history without my half-baked input. :/

Anyway, regarding Iran. All aspects of that claim are of course extremely tentative, and subject to perhaps radical change in order to better suit the AMW environment or the demands of practicality.

This state, which, pending a more creative name, I'll call Parsistan, will most likely be populated by a mix of different ethnic groups in much the same style as Iran in real life, principally Azeris, Kurds, and the majority Alavars, with a relaxed form of Ismaili Islam as the majority faith. Strong Zoroastrian, Buddhist, Christian and Jewish communities will also possibly be in evidence, although I'd imagine that Quinntonian missionaries would be highly unwelcome, perhaps even barred from entering the country. Parsistan would be a multilingual nation, without any recognized official language, although government business would most likely be conducted in Turkish or Arabic. The Alavars, probably a Turkic people and originally semi-nomadic, might speak what is basically a Turkic language, but one that draws heavily on ancient Greek and other Indo-European influences.

As for government, Parsistan will most likely follow Ceylon's example, namely a Federal-Parliamentary system, although with a system of proportional representation added and a slightly more involved executive. I'll try to have a factbook up with the bare facts at least within the next few days.

[Beth Gellert]

Updated map on first page. Look about right? I have put on the islands and Garabogaz, but of course they barely show up on this little rough project.

I just noticed that I haven't put Strathdonia on, but I wasn't sure of his decision just yet.

[Cassanos]

Maybe we have another solution for the Spanish problem: We could of course retcon the whole thing. Thus, Spain would not have been Roman for a long time and there would not be any need to rebel.
Since Spain so far has not been featured on AMW extensively, this would not evn be much of an effort. I see the implications for Vec, of course, but France, Italy and Greece combined are still a formidable powerbase, and I think that the Roman empire we have right now might be a little overblown as it is. Some cutting and trimming might not be the worst way to handle things.

[Quinntonian Dra-pol]

Dammit, I posted two days ago and it is not here.

Well, to sum up:
I am not a fan of the breaking up of the US, mainly because I have a lot of storyline, time, effort, and factbook invested in the whole thing. (Man, that was a lot longer the first time) That being said, I am totally willing to gove up Canada if there is a legit claim. If not, I am willing to continue to play out the internal machinations and push/pull/Canada playing Britain and the USQ off eachother that I had already started.

I am also very, very hopeful taht we would find many nieghbours for me, I would welcome a Canada, a Mexico, Central American and Gulf neighbours, even I think it is abysmal that we don't have any players in South America.

But yeah. Vecron has flown today to Ontario to get married, so I am guessing that he may not see this as a very high priority right now, but I will speak to him and see if he can get on here. I know that he has been reading and keeping up, but hasn't had time to post.

So....I would love to have some nieghbours. If you could find some for me, that would be exciting, the more the merrier.

[Tahuantinsuyu Empire]

It's not quite Costa Paz, but I've got a lot more information and ideas for this nation than I seem able to muster for that one, and it's still in the Americas. I don't want to end up flaking out again, so this appeals to me a lot more than Costa Paz or Al Khals.
I'm not sure it'd offer a counterweight to the USQ, but I'm just bored of getting nuked or having RP's die when newbies leave, so I wouldn't mind somewhere for Tahuantinsuyu to actually develop beyond its start point.

As you can probably see, Tahuantinsuyu, AKA the Inka Qhapaq, is the Inca empire survived to modern times. If moved to AMW, I'd take the history I established 'on the outside', which I think would mostly fit here.

History

It starts in the first half of the sixteenth century, departing from the real timeline during the civil war between half-brothers Atahualpa and Huáscar. In reality, Atahualpa won and executed Huáscar, only to be captured and murdered by Pizarro, leaving the empire without clear leadership to unite behind and condemning it to reliance on Spanish puppets and so on. In my alteration, Atahualpa becomes one of the earliest American victims of smallpox, which is spreading ahead of the Europeans, leaving his half brother to a quick and relatively inexpensive victory.

History records that Huáscar was mad, and terribly cruel, which of course may just have been his victorious rival's opinion but for my purposes I assume it to be true (perhaps because so many of his ancestors were brother and sister). He is captured in Atahualpa's place, but instead of offering to pay a ransom for his freedom, he tells his army to attack the compound where he is being held, and offers the 'ransom rooms' of gold and silver to a handful of Spaniards and their native allies, along with safe passage out of the empire, if they will hide him during the battle. Of course the upshot is that tens of thousands of Huáscar's warriors over-run the Conquistadores, Huáscar does not keep his promise to those who sheltered him during the battle, Vincente de Valverde is the one who gets set on fire, along with his bible, and Pizarro has his hands and feet cut off and is cast from a clifftop.

Huáscar gains a fierce reputation after dispatching Atahualpa and Pizarro in quick succession, as well as Spanish horses enough to start a breeding programme, and some armour and weapons for his elite noble bodyguard unit. The empire is still hit badly by disease, but after Pizarro's end and a myth of Huáscar as something of a devil incarnate, the Spanish are hesitant in following up their early aggression (and the Portuguese don't exist, right? Or they don't last, anyway), and with a shorter and less bloody civil war the Inka are in a better shape to resist when the Europeans do come back. In the interim, they begin to trade in a limited way with other Europeans and develop their understanding of iron and steel, as well as establishing a strong cavalry corps under Huáscar. The people no longer wonder if the Spaniards might be god-like and are confident in the strength of Huáscar and his offspring, and Inka armies of up to 40,000 warriors stand firm against later Catholic expeditions.

I imagine that in the following centuries the empire, under a dynasty descended from Huáscar and following his somewhat un-Inkan levels of brutality and bloodlust, gains respect amongst the community of nations. It's less advanced than the European countries -and later Quinntonia- but copes reasonably well, importing small numbers of fire-arms and eventually producing its own in moderate quantities. If Japan was able to retain its independence and avoid Christianisation IRL (and not here!) perhaps it's not too far-fetched for the Inka Qhapaq to manage.

Modern society

The Inka Qhapaq, or Tahuantinsuyu, is still ruled by a Sapa Inka descended from Huáscar, and to begin with this shall be the aged Guacamaya Inka Tupac, an utter crackpot known as the parrot emperor. It will be obvious that he is not long for this world, and a succession crisis could be brewing. The state religion will be the same as it has ever been, with the inherent belief in the Sapa Inka as the only son of the sun. The economy will be based upon the mita obligation, a sort of labour tax, and accordingly will not be the most advanced, and largely agrarian. The empire will be highly suspicious of cash economies and alien -especially Christian (or perhaps 'especially Catholic')- religions but in no position to go waging war on them, having never embraced the high seas and lacking the infrastructure by which to support more than a tokenistic airforce. Despite its suspicion, Qusqu will trade with foreign states, exporting agricultural produce, handicrafts and textiles, and minerals and other raw materials in order to finance import of weapons and industrial capital. The army will stand at 0.65% of the population, but all able males will undergo basic training as part of their labour obligation. It will be predominantly a straight-leg force with a national defence doctrine based on popular resistance and guerrilla warfare in the mountains and jungles of the empire. With one of the worst navies/coastguards, a modest airforce, and relatively low rate of mechanisation, the empire will have some of the toughest and most skilled infantry in the world. Probably we have by now developed writing, incase you were wondering!

Territory and population

I propose to have the four quarters of the empire cover Peru and Ecuador entirely, plus: Pando, La Paz, Oruro, and Potosi in Bolivia; Arica, Iquique, and Antofagasta in Chile; Narino in Colombia; and Acre in Brazil. My preliminary estimates are that this would mean an area of 2,326,238 km2, and a population of approximately 50.9m people, give or take. That's about DR Congo size, and just over South Africa population.

[Somewhereistonia]

Sounds very interesting and as far as I can see, nothing would need to be changed (depending on what happens with Spain).

[CCA1]

I propose to have the four quarters of the empire cover Peru and Ecuador entirely, plus: Pando, La Paz, Oruro, and Potosi in Bolivia; Arica, Iquique, and Antofagasta in Chile; Narino in Colombia; and Acre in Brazil.

Keep in mind that Columbia and Ecuador used to be part of Neo-Anarchos. While I, of course, make no claim to any of the territories anymore, I doubt the Anarchans would want to be part of such an authoritarian system of government.

[Somewhereistonia]

I propose to have the four quarters of the empire cover Peru and Ecuador entirely, plus: Pando, La Paz, Oruro, and Potosi in Bolivia; Arica, Iquique, and Antofagasta in Chile; Narino in Colombia; and Acre in Brazil.

Keep in mind that Columbia and Ecuador used to be part of Neo-Anarchos. While I, of course, make no claim to any of the territories anymore, I doubt the Anarchans would want to be part of such an authoritarian system of government.

No offence but If you don't have a current claim on the map, your history can't be taken into account imo. Anarchans only exist as long as someone is playing them, otherwise it places unfair restriction on new claims.

[Spyr]

Ah yes, knew there was something we forgot to put on our tell-Tias-when-he-gets-back list!

A while ago, AMW went through a bit of a 'reset'... it was, at least for some of us, an attempt to make room for new players by brushing aside a lot of existing history left by now-departed AMW members (yourself, Bonstock, Nova Gaul, Marimaia, etc) and by player interactions with NPCs. Not an optimal solution, but it seemed few potential new players wanted to throw themselves into the depths of AMW's extensive history. It also meant we could finally use Google Earth for all our mapping needs, as I lost my little non-existent peninsula.

The process did actually bring in some new blood, who've made some excellent contributions to the reset AMW, but its brought troubles of its own, particularly in terms of how Drapoel-Quinntonian history carries through the reset (Dra-pol wants it and thought it ought carry through the reset, Quinn wants nothing to do with it and thought it ought vanish with the reset). That was one of the issues that prompted this particular thread, and it finally looks to have been resolved via a proposed Christian Japan.

What that means from your perspective, coming back in the aftermath, is that at present the presence of the Anarchans et al. in AMW has been lost to the reset, at least until you can come back and make a new claim.

[CCA1]

Somewhereistonia / Spyr>> Ah, I wasn't aware. Please carry on! The Anarchans never were that well-written anyway, I think. I had a lot of grand designs for playing them, but time and circumstances never allowed me to.

[Cassanos]

Nice to see you again, Tias. Hope things work out for you soon .

[Beth Gellert]

Updated preliminary map, again, to show how the world would look with Tahuantinsuyu. Now off to die of heatstroke or somethin. [/melodrama]

[Somewhereistonia]

*bump*

So, it would appear that most of the NS world is here, minus the african nations but with a few new recruits (always a good thing).

Tiurabo: Would you consider playing as Texans in Mexico? All of the ideas etc would still be there, just slightly further south (and that doesn't take much explanation). It could be called New Texas or South Texas or something similar and would essentially be the same thing.

Cat: Would you similarly take the low countries or part of north Africa to play Spain? They could have been displaced y the Moors or Galetians to explain the history of it, but essentially it would still be Spain (with an altered population level).

On to retcons; the Soil of Africa, relying on Talost, is obviously going to have to disappear/be explained away somehow. Other than this storyline I don't think theres anything major to change in AMW history.

Are we ready to move across from jolt and start posting again?

[Gurguvungunit]

Would it be possible for Mac to hold off until Vecron gets back? Depending on how long that is, it would allow us to definitively solve the Spain/Rome problem, since it depends largely on what he thinks of matters. As for Soil of Africa, I'm fine with a retcon. I really didn't like how that thread was going on my part, so I'm fine with cutting it.

Kiev, I know you wanted to back off from the Baltic crisis, but would you be amenable to a serious cooling of relations between the fascists and the west? I think it could lead to some interesting tensions, and it would certainly give us something to RP if Spizania's princely rebellion doesn't pan out. Might not be original, but at least it would be sort of cool.

[CCA1]

So, out of curiosity, are any of the old guard African territories taken by new players? I'm largely thinking of territories of the former African Commonwealth, Lusaka and sort-of allied territories (Zimbabwe, Zambia, Mozambique).

I'm asking because A) I could be a lot of help to players who want to integrate old AMW history in their new nations - even if they want to disregard it completely, a lot of cool hardware was designed that could inspire them in times of war, and B) Come autumn/winter I have a ton of time and would like to reboot Subsaharan Africa in a smaller and more unpleasant incarnation

[Beth Gellert]

No, not yet.

Lusaka had started a new nation that was sort of going to tell the story of Igomo's rise but in a different setting, and it was moved to Gabon and surrounds, but now Africa is quiet, with only Gurg's colonial holdings. I think the continent's basically a blank canvas, at the moment. Maybe I should have had the Geletians dominate the north coast or something... ah well!

[Crookfur]

I object to the insinuation that Mozambique was in anyway allied with the godless commies! under the Simba administration they were good little capitolists and when that went south they go split 3 or 4 ways (Strathdonian annexation zone, the free state (UE's hyper capitolists), TCB's northen bit and the rump down south who suddenly became everybody's bitch). This did lead to the Strathdonians suddenly going "feck we have a coast line! Better get some dirt cheap chinese firgates and then hyper inflate the cost by fitting our own systems!"

Ah good times, almsot as good as the border skirmihes over zimbabwe.

If you are really interested reinvograting SSA it would give me a lot more push to bring back strathdonia, if in a slightly larger size.

[CCA1]

I am, but I must stress that it will be at least 3 months before it happens. I'd rather wait and do something interesting than just leap in and have something that won't work.

Is Lusaka-p still around? I loved that guy

[The Crooked Beat]

We haven't heard from Lusaka for some time, unfortunately, or at least I haven't. It would be a terrible shame to lose him.

I'd also like to strongly support Tahuantinsuyu's membership, though I doubt anyone would do otherwise. I've also started a factbook for Parsistan, and here it is for review: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3045.

Perhaps we should try and get an RP going, if anyone is interested. If Spizania is still interested in an Indian civil war, that would be a great place to start, but, if he's not around, maybe we could do something with Moldova or the western Ukraine, provided Kiev is amenable.

[Vecron]

Alright, I see that I must respond, after looking at what is being discussed on this thread. First, my apologies for being so silent in the past few months. School has been hectic and I've been planning a wedding and got back from my honeymoon this Saturday. My apologies. Second, I must admit that I have been unimpressed with the reboot of AMW as well, mostly from the lack of activity, which seems to be a universal sentiment. The second is this preconceived notion that the monarchist must the instant bad guy, and the only one who can start a big showdown between nations. My character was a bit of a rebellion against this notion of monarch=bad guy that must initiate conflict. It annoyed me. It seemed like everyone was waiting from me or KR to do something that would set something off. Thinking back on it, I should have done more, and maybe I did not know how to deal with a superpower and how to throw my weight around. I hope that I can do better.

I would like to continue being a part of AMW, and I hope that we can work something out. There have been a lot of suggestions being cast about, and I would like to talk more about it. I can write about this more tomorrow.

[Gurguvungunit]

'grats on the wedding, Vecron.

Eh, thought I should probably drop in after... about a month. I dunno, I admit that like I said before, my enthusiasm for AMW has been sort of in abeyance, and seems pretty tied to activity. If something relevant to Britain goes on, I'll probably have something to say about it, but honestly I don't have any ideas as to a new RP. Um, so, I guess that was a pretty useless post. Oh well.

EDIT: I had a thought (shock! horror!). As Vecron and Kiev have variously pointed out, it seems that we've essentially given fascists the role of agent provocateur in this world of ours. While that may be justified, it does make for limited story options. So, I shall propose something unusual. To wit: two of our democratic nations go to war with one another. This will require some lead-in RP providing context, since up to now we've essentially roleplayed the democratic nations as a largely monolithic alliance. One interesting option (though perhaps not appealing) could be to emphasize the political and social differences between the US and UK, perhaps with regard to foreign policies. I'm not sure, given the historical (RL and OTL) co-operation between the anglophone states, if this would lead to a war. However, there's always the question of Canada. If Canada seemed to be moving away from the USQ and toward the British Empire, it might lead Quinntonians to believe that British agents were engaged in corrupting Canadian politics. This could even be true, to an extent, we'll have to see.

Now, it's likely that the US would crush the UK, even given my rearmament. I do, however, have a few submarine-related theories as to how this imbalance could be reduced. It would also allow me to have fun with total war, if things got bad enough, which has interesting domestic ramifications given a fairly lassez-faire economic system that frowns upon government control. This would also, I hope, force other players nominally in NATO to take sides, and provide states like Germany/Cassanos and the Baltic States some cool RP potential. It might even give Kiev and Rome the bizarre position of being peacemakers.

Obviously, this could also be applied to a Germany/Cassanos v. UK (or US) situation, although that's been rather done, twice and bloodily. And Baltic States v. UK or US would really just be sad. I mean, no offense, but you know what I mean. Thoughts?

[Vecron]

An interesting thought. It could even give the chance for Rome or Kiev to support a democratic power (shocker!) and get in their good books. Given the nature of the conflict, it could even divide the two monarch powers, each supporting opposite sides depending on their position and possible ramifications of either side winning the war. I think that would be a little more cool than having two or three massive power blocs staring down at each other with MAD being the only thing stopping them from letting loose on each other and having the smaller communist bloc looking on hoping they won't get caught in the crossfire.

I like the idea.

[Gurguvungunit]

Hmm, additionally, do you have any thoughts on Spain?