by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:02 am
by Jetan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:05 am
by L Ron Cupboard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:06 am
by Risottia » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:06 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The EU's attempt to woo over the FSU states like Ukraine was a blatant attempt at interference in Putin's sphere of influence.
by The balkens » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:08 am
Risottia wrote:Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The EU's attempt to woo over the FSU states like Ukraine was a blatant attempt at interference in Putin's sphere of influence.
Because Putin has a personal right to a sphere of influence over other countries.
Or because Russia as a personal right to a sphere of influence over other countries.
Here's now a typical train of thought from Eurosceptics.
Stay tuned for more fun stories, I guess.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:08 am
Jetan wrote:A damn shame, this.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:11 am
Risottia wrote:Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The EU's attempt to woo over the FSU states like Ukraine was a blatant attempt at interference in Putin's sphere of influence.
Because Putin has a personal right to a sphere of influence over other countries.
Or because Russia as a personal right to a sphere of influence over other countries.
Here's now a typical train of thought from Eurosceptics.
Stay tuned for more fun stories, I guess.
by Jetan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:14 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Jetan wrote:A damn shame, this.
I'm not opposed to nations uniting under a regional framework, either politically or economically, however the framework must be inherently strong willed. The EU attempts to foster democracy and liberalism, thus it is a supranational organization which is a threat to a strong government of the type needed to see humanity through the 21st century.
by New Molsona » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:15 am
by Jetan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:16 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The EU should be happy with what they have and stop the expansionist attitude towards Moscow.
by Tubbsalot » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:16 am
New Molsona wrote:If Ukraine joins this, all their decisions will come from Brussels which has no idea what the people of Ukraine want.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:17 am
Jetan wrote:Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:
I'm not opposed to nations uniting under a regional framework, either politically or economically, however the framework must be inherently strong willed. The EU attempts to foster democracy and liberalism, thus it is a supranational organization which is a threat to a strong government of the type needed to see humanity through the 21st century.
Parliamentary democracy is one of the most important achievements of the Modern era. It has it's problems, but it's vastly preferable to a dictatorship. Europe should uníte into one nation.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:18 am
Tubbsalot wrote:New Molsona wrote:If Ukraine joins this, all their decisions will come from Brussels which has no idea what the people of Ukraine want.
I'm not sure whether you realise this, but national governments still exist after a country joins the EU. It's not like the continent is being run from Brussels.
by Jetan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:20 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Jetan wrote:Parliamentary democracy is one of the most important achievements of the Modern era. It has it's problems, but it's vastly preferable to a dictatorship. Europe should uníte into one nation.
Absolutely not. The "democracy" of the EU offers nothing but kleptocracy and political sloth.
See this article ( I posted it into OP, but maybe you missed it), it makes a very strong point for staying out of the EU.
http://rt.com/op-edge/eu-ukraine-russia-deal-130/
by The balkens » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:22 am
Tubbsalot wrote:New Molsona wrote:If Ukraine joins this, all their decisions will come from Brussels which has no idea what the people of Ukraine want.
I'm not sure whether you realise this, but national governments still exist after a country joins the EU. It's not like the continent is being run from Brussels.
by Tubbsalot » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:24 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Yeah, the idea that sovereignty is retained after joining the EU is BS, just look at Greece or Hungary. Brussels is always snooping in their affairs.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:24 am
The balkens wrote:Tubbsalot wrote:I'm not sure whether you realise this, but national governments still exist after a country joins the EU. It's not like the continent is being run from Brussels.
That's what the Belgian Imperialists want you to believe! Apparently...or something.
Wait, doesn't Germany have a tight hold of the EU since it's the largest economy. And even if Europe centralized even further (like say a super state) would it's participating states still have their own governments? Like the American united states as a model?
by Jetan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:27 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The balkens wrote:
That's what the Belgian Imperialists want you to believe! Apparently...or something.
Wait, doesn't Germany have a tight hold of the EU since it's the largest economy. And even if Europe centralized even further (like say a super state) would it's participating states still have their own governments? Like the American united states as a model?
Europe is a nation of dozens of ethnic groups and radically different cultures. The USA has been a single state for hundreds of years while Europe has never been united under one flag. The closest person to doing so was Hitler and we all know how that ended.
by The balkens » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:27 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:The balkens wrote:
That's what the Belgian Imperialists want you to believe! Apparently...or something.
Wait, doesn't Germany have a tight hold of the EU since it's the largest economy. And even if Europe centralized even further (like say a super state) would it's participating states still have their own governments? Like the American united states as a model?
Europe is a nation of dozens of ethnic groups and radically different cultures. The USA has been a single state for hundreds of years while Europe has never been united under one flag. The closest person to doing so was Hitler and we all know how that ended.
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:29 am
Tubbsalot wrote:Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Yeah, the idea that sovereignty is retained after joining the EU is BS, just look at Greece or Hungary. Brussels is always snooping in their affairs.
Except they can withdraw from EU organisations at any time; the EU has no binding authority over them and can't enforce decisions without the consent of national authorities. They'd be screwed by leaving the EU, but only because they'd be losing the advantages of EU membership.
by Mefpan » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:33 am
by Imperial Nilfgaard » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:36 am
Divair wrote:What a shame. I feel really sorry for the Ukrainians. I've been to the country about a dozen times, and it's in a really bad state. This could've helped the country a lot.
by Divair » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:38 am
Imperial Nilfgaard wrote:Divair wrote:What a shame. I feel really sorry for the Ukrainians. I've been to the country about a dozen times, and it's in a really bad state. This could've helped the country a lot.
Joining the EU will not solve the economic problems, not least because Putin will unleash retaliatory sanctions. Furthermore there are plenty of poor countries, like Romania, in the EU. It isn't some silver bullet.
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