Nowadays most countries aren't run by His Laws - attempting to change our current laws (or keep them) to His laws simply for the sake of them being His laws is just wrong to me.
Advertisement
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:34 pm
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:34 pm
Resora wrote:Arcadonisia wrote:
Hmm..I always thought that the old laws were abolished when Jesus came..Besides the Bible says nothing about homosexuality anyways.Leviticus 20:13 wrote:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Sure, a lot of Christians argue that these old laws were "nailed" to the Cross. That doesn't change the fact that the supposedly benevolent, omniscient God commanded this shit in the first place. You don't really get a do-over for that shit, especially if you're supposed to know everything.
by Natair » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:36 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Caecuser wrote:
This viewpoint of one sexuality being completely legitimate and the other being heinous is odd to me. There is functionally no difference between the two when they are used for pleasure (despite basic anatomical differences, they are essentially the same thing; sexual acts) and heterosexual sex can be performed without the intention or requirement of creating new life.
There just doesn't seem to be any reason to make one morally illegal and the other be fine. Especially considering both are consensual (when they are actually consensual).
There need not be a functional difference. God has created sexuality, and He has rights to determine how it may be properly used. God, as the source of all Goodness, has set down that certain sex acts are permitted and blessed, and all others are sinful.
Your claim is that the agents involved are irrelevant; but the commandment of God is precisely otherwise, that the agents, and the situation, are in fact highly relevant to the morality of the case.
by Old Tyrannia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:37 pm
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:37 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Haflin wrote:I disagree. The same god had us kill men that worked on Sunday.
The Jewish Sabbath was Saturday (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown) not Sunday.
And this was commanded in the societal law of the Jewish state. It is no longer operable.
The moral law is eternal, and not one word of it shall ever pass away.
by Liriena » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:37 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:It does indeed make sense. God values our free will, because only a freely chosen act can possibly have moral consequences. This includes the consequences of these freely chosen actions, and so, by our own sinful acts, creation remains fallen.
The Tovian Way wrote:You may call it that. I call it the epitome of mercy and love. Were we not to learn to value God more than anything else, we could not become the kind of people capable of experiencing God in His full glory, which is heaven, and we would consign ourselves to the hell of being forever separated from God by our own choice. Since God desires our good, He calls us to learn to value Him above all, that we may become this kind of being.
The Tovian Way wrote:He enables it only in the sense that He does not prevent it. He does not prevent it because this fallen creation is a consequence of human sin, of men's own free choices, and He values our free will too highly to deprive us of it.
The Tovian Way wrote:It is not God's mess, it is our own. We are the ones who mired ourselves in sin, such that even now we rebel and rail against the good in preference for our sins, further miring ourselves and drawing us further away from God. And He does not demand that we take responsibility and clean the mess ourselves; He has done that on His own, in the atoning sacrifice of Christ. This sacrifice enables us, through His grace, to begin to choose God and reform our lives, to be an active partner in our own salvation.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Natair » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm
Old Tyrannia wrote:Strange, I was under the impression that American liberals believed in freedom of speech. It appears that some of them don't, however, at least not when the speakers are espousing a view they disagree with.
As far as the group in question go, I don't necessarily agree with their point of view. However, I would not like to live in a society where they were not free to express it.
by Haflin » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:38 pm
Caecuser wrote:The Tovian Way wrote:
They are sinful because God, the source of all Goodness, as commanded us in His moral law, not to perform them.
Nowadays most countries aren't run by His Laws - attempting to change our current laws (or keep them) to His laws simply for the sake of them being His laws is just wrong to me.
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:39 pm
by Resora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:39 pm
Menassa wrote:Resora wrote:
Sure, a lot of Christians argue that these old laws were "nailed" to the Cross. That doesn't change the fact that the supposedly benevolent, omniscient God commanded this shit in the first place. You don't really get a do-over for that shit, especially if you're supposed to know everything.
Yes you do, if you look at the The Law at the time period it was, it was necessary for the children of Israel to not practice homosexuality... but when the children of Israel stopped being (Hebrews 8:13) the Law agaisnst homosexuality was a mere anachronism.
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:39 pm
Resora wrote:Menassa wrote:Yes you do, if you look at the The Law at the time period it was, it was necessary for the children of Israel to not practice homosexuality... but when the children of Israel stopped being (Hebrews 8:13) the Law agaisnst homosexuality was a mere anachronism.
Why on earth would it be "necessary" to not practice homosexuality?
by The Truth and Light » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:40 pm
Old Tyrannia wrote:Strange, I was under the impression that American liberals believed in freedom of speech. It appears that some of them don't, however, at least not when the speakers are espousing a view they disagree with.
As far as the group in question go, I don't necessarily agree with their point of view. However, I would not like to live in a society where they were not free to express it.
by Natair » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:40 pm
by Wisconsin9 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:40 pm
Old Tyrannia wrote:Strange, I was under the impression that American liberals believed in freedom of speech. It appears that some of them don't, however, at least not when the speakers are espousing a view they disagree with.
As far as the group in question go, I don't necessarily agree with their point of view. However, I would not like to live in a society where they were not free to express it.
by Liriena » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:41 pm
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Lithosano » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:41 pm
Haflin wrote:Lithosano wrote:
That man is using his power to protect people's rights. The fact that the majority is not composed of bigots is antecedent.
Sorry if I offended it was not my intention, But I would say that they are tyranny of majority (sorry if I may be using that phrase incorrectly.) I would also like to say that I never stated the majority was full of or composed of bigots. I was merely suggesting they were using the democratic process to suppress a generally unsupported group.
by Resora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:41 pm
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:43 pm
Resora wrote:Menassa wrote:In the interests of Procreation?
Shouldn't they be offing childless couples then, to prevent wasting resources on people that aren't popping out babies?
And wouldn't restrictions on sexual behavior, like no premarital sex (on penalty of death), run contrary to promoting procreation?
by Lithosano » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:45 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Caecuser wrote:
Nowadays most countries aren't run by His Laws - attempting to change our current laws (or keep them) to His laws simply for the sake of them being His laws is just wrong to me.
Indeed they are not, and under the New Covenant, the dietary and social laws are no longer operable. The punishment for committing homosexual sex acts is within this law, and is abolished.
The moral law, however, is eternal, and will never pass away. The prohibition against homosexual sex acts is within this law, and remains.
Unfortunately, I have to leave for today. If anyone has any further questions for me, please do send me a telegram and I will try to address them to the best of my ability when I have time.
by The Truth and Light » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:46 pm
by Rocopurr » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:46 pm
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:47 pm
Lithosano wrote:The Tovian Way wrote:
Indeed they are not, and under the New Covenant, the dietary and social laws are no longer operable. The punishment for committing homosexual sex acts is within this law, and is abolished.
The moral law, however, is eternal, and will never pass away. The prohibition against homosexual sex acts is within this law, and remains.
Unfortunately, I have to leave for today. If anyone has any further questions for me, please do send me a telegram and I will try to address them to the best of my ability when I have time.
[...]
Menassa, confirm/deny?
by Pastor Visser » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:48 pm
Advertisement
Users browsing this forum: Azassas, Free Toast, Gaybeans, Turenia
Advertisement