THIS IS NOT SUFFICIENT PREPARE FOR LEGALLY ENFORCES SUFFOCATION.
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by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:06 pm
Menassa wrote:The Tovian Way wrote:
It does indeed matter if they commit sin!
Everyone (except for Our Lady and Our Lord) was born in a state of original sin, the fallen nature of man which leads us toward sin.
Beyond original sin, there is also actual sin, the commission of sinful acts, which cause grave damage to a person's soul.
How can it? Regardless of how many sins a person commits, if they are not saved it does not matter, and if they are saved... they are saved!
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:07 pm
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:08 pm
by Arcadonisia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:08 pm
Resora wrote:The Tovian Way wrote:
Neither disemboweling a practicing sodomite nor stoning a non-virgin bride are teachings of Christianity. Indeed, both would be sinful.
You might want to tell that to ol' Moses.Good old Mosey, Deuteronomy 22:20 and 21 wrote:If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young [bride]’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Though yes, you technically are correct. Stoning, not disembowelment, is the proscribed sanction for having gay sex.
by Menassa » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:09 pm
Arcadonisia wrote:Resora wrote:
You might want to tell that to ol' Moses.
Though yes, you technically are correct. Stoning, not disembowelment, is the proscribed sanction for having gay sex.
Hmm..I always thought that the old laws were abolished when Jesus came..Besides the Bible says nothing about homosexuality anyways.
by Resora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:09 pm
by Arcadonisia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:10 pm
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:11 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Sexual orientation is largely outside of our control, and thus cannot result in moral culpability.
Our actions are within our control, and thus can result in moral culpability.
Those with a tendency toward sinful actions, such as those born with a homosexual orientation, are never morally culpable for this tendency, but are morally culpable for actually engaging in these actions. One with a homosexual orientation who did not ever engage in homosexual sexual activity would be completely blameless as regards this particular sin.
by Condunum » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:11 pm
by Resora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:11 pm
Arcadonisia wrote:Resora wrote:
You might want to tell that to ol' Moses.
Though yes, you technically are correct. Stoning, not disembowelment, is the proscribed sanction for having gay sex.
Hmm..I always thought that the old laws were abolished when Jesus came..Besides the Bible says nothing about homosexuality anyways.
Leviticus 20:13 wrote:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
by Intaglio » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:12 pm
by Condunum » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:13 pm
Intaglio wrote::eyebrow: Why do people like this exist? I'm grown so bored of the obsession over gay marriage some people have
by Liriena » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:14 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:It is not forced. If it were forced, it would have no moral value. It must be chosen, that is, one must learn to value God more than they value the expression of their sexuality.
The Tovian Way wrote:It may indeed be difficult, and my heart goes out to those who are in such a position, but that is the state of things. It is no different for any other fallen human being subject to a natural tendency to a sinful act; we are all called to learn how to deny our tendencies toward some particular act and to value God more.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:14 pm
by Magna Libero » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:15 pm
by Arcadonisia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:15 pm
Resora wrote:Arcadonisia wrote:
Hmm..I always thought that the old laws were abolished when Jesus came..Besides the Bible says nothing about homosexuality anyways.Leviticus 20:13 wrote:13 If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Sure, a lot of Christians argue that these old laws were "nailed" to the Cross. That doesn't change the fact that the supposedly benevolent, omniscient God commanded this shit in the first place. You don't really get a do-over for that shit, especially if you're supposed to know everything.
by TBA Field Marshal » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:15 pm
by Liriena » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:15 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Resora wrote:
He acted as commanded directly by God, and God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Unless you're arguing that God is a fickle ass that thought stoning brides was justified in the BC but not the AD.
God is indeed the same, yesterday, today, and forever.
Humanity is not the same, however, and since humanity is changeable, God's interaction with us is as well.
God's moral law is involate, and has been laid down from the beginning. Not one jot or tittle shall ever pass away.
God's dietary and social laws for the Jewish people are formational in nature, and have served their purpose now that we are under the New Covenant.
I am: A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist An aspiring writer and journalist | Political compass stuff: Economic Left/Right: -8.13 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92 For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism, cynicism ⚧Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know gender and sex aren't the same thing.⚧ |
by Graknopia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:17 pm
by Resora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:18 pm
The Tovian Way wrote:Resora wrote:
He acted as commanded directly by God, and God is the same yesterday, today and forever.
Unless you're arguing that God is a fickle ass that thought stoning brides was justified in the BC but not the AD.
God is indeed the same, yesterday, today, and forever.
Humanity is not the same, however, and since humanity is changeable, God's interaction with us is as well.
God's moral law is involate, and has been laid down from the beginning. Not one jot or tittle shall ever pass away.
God's dietary and social laws for the Jewish people are formational in nature, and have served their purpose now that we are under the New Covenant.
by The Tovian Way » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:18 pm
Liriena wrote:The Tovian Way wrote:It is not forced. If it were forced, it would have no moral value. It must be chosen, that is, one must learn to value God more than they value the expression of their sexuality.
Value a deity, one that tells us that our perfectly natural actions and inclinations are wrong, more than our loved ones on Earth?The Tovian Way wrote:It may indeed be difficult, and my heart goes out to those who are in such a position, but that is the state of things. It is no different for any other fallen human being subject to a natural tendency to a sinful act; we are all called to learn how to deny our tendencies toward some particular act and to value God more.
Value god more than the natural inclinations he knowingly gives us? Okay...
by New Frenco Empire » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:20 pm
Graknopia wrote:Last time I checked Levicus says not to where polyester aswell.. so.
by Magna Libero » Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:20 pm
Haflin wrote:I would have to say being intolerant of the intolerant leads to intolerance and then violence. They should be allowed to do what they please with their ideas. Even if its generaly unsupported.
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