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What should Obama do Since Russia Didn't give back Snowden?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What should Obama and the US do in retaliation to Russia?

-Boycott G-20 Summit
16
3%
-Boycott the Olympics
36
6%
- Cut communication and place sanctions on Russia
53
9%
- Nothing
443
73%
-other (explain)
63
10%
 
Total votes : 611

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God Kefka
Senator
 
Posts: 4546
Founded: Aug 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby God Kefka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:02 am

New Aerios wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
No major world power can survive without spying on everyone (domestically and internationally). USA just did what the British Empire was doing before it...

Also, no major world power can survive if people can regularly betray their country and leak top secret information to the public. This is what Snowden did.

How can you fight terrorism without getting as much info as you can on everyone? Spying is something every major country does anyway. If you think America is doing something so extraordinarily out of the norm with PRISM... you are naive.

If America goes soft on Snowden, what's top stop future leaks? We cannot tolerate traitors.


Of course, because the British Empire was tapping everyone's phone calls and monitoring their internet history...

Seems legit.


They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.
Art thread
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=261761


''WAIT?! Do I look like a waiter to you?''

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New Aerios
Minister
 
Posts: 2250
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Aerios » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:08 am

God Kefka wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Of course, because the British Empire was tapping everyone's phone calls and monitoring their internet history...

Seems legit.


They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.


The USA will fall when the very values it was founded on are destroyed. Like freedom - which you seem to dislike.
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 16522
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:09 am

God Kefka wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Of course, because the British Empire was tapping everyone's phone calls and monitoring their internet history...

Seems legit.


They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.

Who was that guy again... I can't remember his name. Somehwere, he said
"Who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and loses both"
Gee, who was that again...
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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New Aerios
Minister
 
Posts: 2250
Founded: Apr 19, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby New Aerios » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:31 am

Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.

Who was that guy again... I can't remember his name. Somehwere, he said
"Who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and loses both"
Gee, who was that again...


Now now, I'm sure Benjamin Franklin is a traitor and an enemy of the Free Democratic People's Republic of America™ (Extra Freedom™ Edition), and deserves to be executed by Glorious Leader Chairman Obama (Praise be upon him, the mighty one, the saviour of America, the bringer of Freedom™, the giver of life, the destroyer of traitors).
Last edited by New Aerios on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
-------------------------------I--M--P--E--R--I--V--M----N--O--V--A----A--E--R--I--O--S---------------------------------
"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong"

"Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

User avatar
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States
P2TM RP Mentor
 
Posts: 16522
Founded: Feb 20, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:40 am

New Aerios wrote:
Great Confederacy Of Commonwealth States wrote:Who was that guy again... I can't remember his name. Somehwere, he said
"Who would give up a little liberty for a little security deserves neither and loses both"
Gee, who was that again...


Now now, I'm sure Benjamin Franklin is a traitor and an enemy of the Free Democratic People's Republic of America™ (Extra Freedom™ Edition), and deserves to be executed by Glorious Leader Chairman Obama (Praise be upon him, the mighty one, the saviour of America, the bringer of Freedom™, the giver of life, the destroyer of traitors).

Agreed. Franklin and his foul satanic accomplices, traitors of the first hour! They deserve the guillotine. All shall fall before the mighty sword of comrade Alexander. Only enemies of FREEDOMTM fear the NRA.
Last edited by Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
The name's James. James Usari. Well, my name is not actually James Usari, so don't bother actually looking it up, but it'll do for now.

Lack of a real name means compensation through a real face. My debt is settled


Part-time Kebab tycoon in Glasgow.

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DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:45 am

God Kefka wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Of course, because the British Empire was tapping everyone's phone calls and monitoring their internet history...

Seems legit.


They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.

BBQ pl0x.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
@Iseabbv Don't @ me

User avatar
God Kefka
Senator
 
Posts: 4546
Founded: Aug 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby God Kefka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:48 am

DesAnges wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...

Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.

BBQ pl0x.


Take your random comments elsewhere please... At least the poster above you is SOMEWHAT related to the topic... even though his post is written in a style that's pretty incoherent too.
Last edited by God Kefka on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Art thread
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=261761


''WAIT?! Do I look like a waiter to you?''

User avatar
DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:48 am

God Kefka wrote:
DesAnges wrote:BBQ pl0x.


Take your random comments elsewhere please...

I was asking for some sauce to go with the pork you're speaking.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
@Iseabbv Don't @ me

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God Kefka
Senator
 
Posts: 4546
Founded: Aug 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby God Kefka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:50 am

DesAnges wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
Take your random comments elsewhere please...

I was asking for some sauce to go with the pork you're speaking.


What are you ten years old? That would explain some of it...
Last edited by God Kefka on Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Art thread
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=261761


''WAIT?! Do I look like a waiter to you?''

User avatar
DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:53 am

God Kefka wrote:
DesAnges wrote:I was asking for some sauce to go with the pork you're speaking.


What are you ten years old? That would explain some of it...

Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
@Iseabbv Don't @ me

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Luveria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:53 am

God Kefka wrote:
New Aerios wrote:
Of course, because the British Empire was tapping everyone's phone calls and monitoring their internet history...

Seems legit.


They did plenty of spying. So the USA can do it too...


So because gays are executed in Iran, the USA can do it too by your consistent logic? Someone else doing something doesn't inherently make it okay do to the same thing.

God Kefka wrote:Countries that don't spy enough on their own people and everyone else don't last very long... countries that allow traitors to get away (like Snowden) also don't last long because discipline breaks down.

Source? Or is this just your personal opinion devoid of any evidence, as usual?

God Kefka wrote:I don't want the USA to fall... Snowden must be dealt with.

You're implying the USA will fall if Snowden isn't 'deal with'? Do further elaborate upon this and enlighten me upon how the USA will fall if Snowden isn't "deal with."

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Luveria
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Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:00 am

God Kefka wrote:
DesAnges wrote:I was asking for some sauce to go with the pork you're speaking.


What are you ten years old? That would explain some of it...

That's an interesting way of avoiding providing sources for your claims. Call the other poster a ten year old and hope they get so upset they forget they asked you to provide a source? That's a truly brilliant tactic for debating, and I applaud you for coming up with it. I'm sure that strategy will catch on among other summer posters.

DesAnges wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
What are you ten years old? That would explain some of it...

Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?

If you've seen anything he's posted in other threads, you'd know he not once has provided sources.
Last edited by Luveria on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:06 am

Luveria wrote:
DesAnges wrote:Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?

If you've seen anything he's posted in other threads, you'd know he not once has provided sources.

Gotta give a man a chance though, right? Everybody gets one.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
@Iseabbv Don't @ me

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Brigands Bitchs
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Feb 26, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Brigands Bitchs » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:08 am

Mkuki wrote:Keep "condemning" Russia for being freedom haters. Seriously, though, there's already a thread on Snowden Asylum-gate.


Snowden is a minor nuisance. More important is fixing the system that so easily allowed him to disperse all the national secrets.

I understand the importance of him being punished though. To fail to do so in some way would be a moral hazard. His exile in Russia is punishment almost as good or perhaps better than him being tried and imprisoned in the USA. So just leave him there.

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Luveria
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Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:09 am

DesAnges wrote:
Luveria wrote:
If you've seen anything he's posted in other threads, you'd know he not once has provided sources.

Gotta give a man a chance though, right? Everybody gets one.

That's why I continue kindly requesting him to provide sources. I'm not sure it's acceptable on a debating forum to repeatedly and consistently post opinions while refusing to ever provide sources to back it up, but I'm probably only ten years old so what would I know.

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Luveria
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Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:16 am

Brigands Bitchs wrote:
Mkuki wrote:Keep "condemning" Russia for being freedom haters. Seriously, though, there's already a thread on Snowden Asylum-gate.


Snowden is a minor nuisance. More important is fixing the system that so easily allowed him to disperse all the national secrets.

I understand the importance of him being punished though. To fail to do so in some way would be a moral hazard. His exile in Russia is punishment almost as good or perhaps better than him being tried and imprisoned in the USA. So just leave him there.

If you've been paying any attention at all to recent events, you would already know there have been proposed new security changes such as no longer hiring civilian contractors for such sensitive work.

Moral hazards? What's that? Is it like the moral decay of society? I thought convicting people of crimes was to enforce laws because that's the point of a legal system. What's this talk about punishment, using the word three times already in such a short post? Are you a sadist or something like that?
Last edited by Luveria on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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God Kefka
Senator
 
Posts: 4546
Founded: Aug 05, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby God Kefka » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:32 am

DesAnges wrote:
God Kefka wrote:
What are you ten years old? That would explain some of it...

Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?


Use your common sense.

If a country doesn't spy while everyone else is spying... sooner or later it loses ground in the information war and other nations will be able to take advantage of covert information to undermine it.

Simple really.

All Snowden has done is weakened the USA's operations.

I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.
Art thread
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=261761


''WAIT?! Do I look like a waiter to you?''

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DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:37 am

God Kefka wrote:
DesAnges wrote:Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?


Use your common sense.

If a country doesn't spy while everyone else is spying... sooner or later it loses ground in the information war and other nations will be able to take advantage of covert information to undermine it.

Simple really.

All Snowden has done is weakened the USA's operations.

I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.

Common sense dictates that you back up the claims you are making with hard evidence.

Which countries have fallen because they haven't been spying on their own citizenry enough? Not the rest of the world, because fuck knows everyone does that, but their own citizens. Provide evidence. That's all I'm asking. Back up your claims of nations tumbling from existence because they didn't tap little Timmy's phone?

As for the last part: :lol: I may not be American but why on earth would I want to see it fall? As much as I dislike its position in world politics it's kinda an important cog in the machine.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
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Luveria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:37 am

God Kefka wrote:
DesAnges wrote:Ad hominem straight off the bat? Cool. Ok, lemme put this another way.

What nations do you personally know of that have fallen precisely because they weren't snooping on their own citizens enough? Can you prove this? Can you back up your comments in any substantial way that will stand up to scrutiny?

Or are you in fact just making a supposition in order to posture over your unpopular opinion of agreeing with the PRISM initiative?


Use your common sense.

If a country doesn't spy while everyone else is spying... sooner or later it loses ground in the information war and other nations will be able to take advantage of covert information to undermine it.

Simple really.

All Snowden has done is weakened the USA's operations.

I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.

Okay so this is your second attempt at dodging a request to source your claims. Now you're insisting Des use common sense? I don't see the connection here. Perhaps I should say if you had common sense you'd be backing up your opinion with something.

God Kefka wrote:If a country doesn't spy while everyone else is spying... sooner or later it loses ground in the information war and other nations will be able to take advantage of covert information to undermine it.

Please do provide an example of this, anything. Until then, you're continuing to be a fountain of unsubstantiated claims.

God Kefka wrote:All Snowden has done is weakened the USA's operations.

That's all he's done, and nothing more? He hasn't revealed to the public how pervasive government surveillance is? If you say so... I mean... you did just say right now all he's done is weaken the USA's operations...and nothing more... so...there's really nothing more Snowden accomplished other than weakening the USA' operations, yup yup.

God Kefka wrote:I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.

What's this now. I wasn't aware I need to be a citizen of any country other than the USA to have a right to be against mass surveillance? How does that work?

Being opposed to PRISM means wanting to see the USA fall? Wut. I don't even...
Last edited by Luveria on Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shimon-Zhivago
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1299
Founded: Jun 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shimon-Zhivago » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:50 am

I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.


People like you give America a bad name. I mean, yes, America is far from perfect, but like most countries, in the end, it's alright. People like you who insist what they insist on the internet give people of the world the perception that all Americans are blind, complacent pig waiting to be slaughtered.

You're doing more damage to your country than Snowden, just so you know. Stop making us look bad!
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DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 am

Shimon-Zhivago wrote:
I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.


People like you give America a bad name. I mean, yes, America is far from perfect, but like most countries, in the end, it's alright. People like you who insist what they insist on the internet give people of the world the perception that all Americans are blind, complacent pig waiting to be slaughtered.

You're doing more damage to your country than Snowden, just so you know. Stop making us look bad!

I would suggest that a better method of PR would to be the outstanding light of debating perfection as opposed to shouting down someone whose opinion you view as damaging.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
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Luveria
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31339
Founded: Feb 22, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Luveria » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:53 am

Shimon-Zhivago wrote:
I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.


People like you give America a bad name. I mean, yes, America is far from perfect, but like most countries, in the end, it's alright. People like you who insist what they insist on the internet give people of the world the perception that all Americans are blind, complacent pig waiting to be slaughtered.

You're doing more damage to your country than Snowden, just so you know. Stop making us look bad!

I'm not getting that perception from him. The perception I'm getting is someone saying "you don't support intrusive government surveillance? YOU HATE AMERICA! YOU WANT US TO FALL!"

Shimon-Zhivago wrote:
I never knew so many people here supported betraying the American government... but then I guess, most of you are not Americans and would rather see the nation fall.


People like you give America a bad name. I mean, yes, America is far from perfect, but like most countries, in the end, it's alright. People like you who insist what they insist on the internet give people of the world the perception that all Americans are blind, complacent pig waiting to be slaughtered.

You're doing more damage to your country than Snowden, just so you know. Stop making us look bad!

He isn't making America look bad. He's only making himself look bad. Us civilized foreigners can tell the difference between a teen fascist, and the rest of the American populace.
Last edited by Luveria on Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Helltank
Diplomat
 
Posts: 838
Founded: Jun 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Helltank » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:46 am

The issue I have with God Kefka is not his lack of sources, or his wild claims that there is some sort of secret information war going on and that every country is secretly tapping their citizens' phones and internet history to get information for the information war and America is just the first one that got caught. Nor his confident statement that if America loses this information war, the whole nation will crumble into dust forever as the other countries presumably nuke it to the ground.

All I want to know is why he thinks Snowden has single-handedly betrayed America and doomed it to fail forever. I mean, you're essentially writing him as such a powerful and influential man that he can roflpwn the United States by a few whispers in the right ears and some posts on some websites.
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DesAnges
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31732
Founded: Nov 02, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby DesAnges » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:52 am

Helltank wrote:The issue I have with God Kefka is not his lack of sources, or his wild claims that there is some sort of secret information war going on and that every country is secretly tapping their citizens' phones and internet history to get information for the information war and America is just the first one that got caught. Nor his confident statement that if America loses this information war, the whole nation will crumble into dust forever as the other countries presumably nuke it to the ground.

All I want to know is why he thinks Snowden has single-handedly betrayed America and doomed it to fail forever. I mean, you're essentially writing him as such a powerful and influential man that he can roflpwn the United States by a few whispers in the right ears and some posts on some websites.

Duhdoy, don't you know anything? Snowden knows every single national secret in the bank. He could end the world with one whisper in Putin's ear.

Then be arrested for homosexuality for whispering intimate secrets into Putin's ear.
My name is Kim-Jong Ayatollah, and I'm a big boy. I'm ten and three-quarters. I have high levels of respect for this man. <3<32 NSG, two pages into a debate
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Dumb Ideologies
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Founded: Sep 30, 2007
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:54 am

Obama should pull on his big-boy panties and get the hell over it.
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