NYT: Jeep Cherokee, culturally insenstive??

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

I never realized it was. The same thing applies, it was culturally insensitive for VW to do it as well.

No one there complained or cared.

And? It doesn't change the fact that using the name without consulting them about it was a culturally insensitive act.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

[New Maldorainia]

No one there complained or cared.

And? It doesn't change the fact that using the name without consulting them about it was a culturally insensitive act.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

If they thought they should have been consulted, they should have said so like the Cherokee did.

[Vitaphone Racing]

"anyone who disagrees with me must be a privileged white, hetero male from a middle class family"

Holy shit bro, you're not a bigot at all....

Mighty defensive aren't you?

I don't like bigots and people who make stereotypes. I'm not apologizing for that fact.

It's quite easy to declare from your position of privilege

Yes, this position of privilege which you just assume I have even though you literally know not one thing about me and only assume I'm arguing from a position of privilege because I'm arguing against you...

that "we" shouldn't care what they think of the use of their name.

We shouldn't. We aren't legally obligated to for starters.

So, oui, one of us is demonstrably bigoted, however, it isn't me.

Yes it is.

[Mushet]

Mighty defensive aren't you?

I don't like bigots and people who make stereotypes. I'm not apologizing for that fact.

It's quite easy to declare from your position of privilege

Yes, this position of privilege which you just assume I have even though you literally know not one thing about me and only assume I'm arguing from a position of privilege because I'm arguing against you...

that "we" shouldn't care what they think of the use of their name.

We shouldn't. We aren't legally obligated to for starters.

So, oui, one of us is demonstrably bigoted, however, it isn't me.

Yes it is.

Is your sense of what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing dictated by what is legal and what isn't? You don't think that if a member of the dominant culture wants to use the name of an indigenous people for their branded consumer product that it isn't right to consult the community about the use of their name? And this is a big car company we're talking about they have the resources. You don't think we should care about their opinion on the appropriation of the name of their indigenous nation or take any steps regarding it merely because we're not legally obligated to?

[Occupied Deutschland]

I don't like bigots and people who make stereotypes. I'm not apologizing for that fact.

Yes, this position of privilege which you just assume I have even though you literally know not one thing about me and only assume I'm arguing from a position of privilege because I'm arguing against you...

We shouldn't. We aren't legally obligated to for starters.

Yes it is.

Is your sense of what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing dictated by what is legal and what isn't? You don't think that if a member of the dominant culture wants to use the name of an indigenous people for their branded consumer product that it isn't right to consult the community about the use of their name? And this is a big car company we're talking about they have the resources. You don't think we should care about their opinion on the appropriation of the name of their indigenous nation or take any steps regarding it merely because we're not legally obligated to?

I'm just not seeing the connection. (Not to speak for Vitaphone here)

If a company decides to name their product after a group of people (be it the Cherokee, Scottish Highlanders, or German master hunters) I don't see how this is automatically insensetive or objectionable. It might be if the group actively DOESN'T like the connection, but I don't see how using group names for products is automatically insensitive to that culture. If a drink is called an 'Irish coffee' for example, I'm not seeing the insensitivity until or unless one connects that somehow and uses it in the context of 'those dirty irishmen being incapable of even waking up without hitting the hooch'. The name itself is merely a label that may bear some or absolutely no relation to the group the label references. In such instances these group titles are part of the public lexicon and perfectly open for use as labeling components.

Now, when or if something is labeled in a way that actively causes offense then there begins to be reason to be concerned. As in the aforementioned example, when the term 'irish coffee' becomes less a descriptor of a drink consisting of whiskey and coffee and becomes more attached to 'all irishmen are drunk layabouts' you have a problem, but not before.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

"anyone who disagrees with me must be a privileged white, hetero male from a middle class family"

Holy shit bro, you're not a bigot at all....

Mighty defensive aren't you?
It's quite easy to declare from your position of privilege that "we" shouldn't care what they think of the use of their name. So, oui, one of us is demonstrably bigoted, however, it isn't me.

All "check your privilege" is, as said by others, is "you don't know because of your background". It furthermore implies that because of your background, that you are therefore infallibly correct.
There is no actual basis in it.

It's kind of some new-age, advanced reverse racism.
It's pretty fucking shameful as a "debate tactic".

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Mighty defensive aren't you?
It's quite easy to declare from your position of privilege that "we" shouldn't care what they think of the use of their name. So, oui, one of us is demonstrably bigoted, however, it isn't me.

All "check your privilege" is, as said by others, is "you don't know because of your background". It furthermore implies that because of your background, that you are therefore infallibly correct.
There is no actual basis in it.

It's kind of some new-age, advanced reverse racism.
It's pretty fucking shameful as a "debate tactic".

I'm not right because of my background, I'm right because using something, like a name, from another culture with no concern about the effect of doing so is literally the definition of cultural insensitivity.

[Saruhan]

All "check your privilege" is, as said by others, is "you don't know because of your background". It furthermore implies that because of your background, that you are therefore infallibly correct.
There is no actual basis in it.

It's kind of some new-age, advanced reverse racism.
It's pretty fucking shameful as a "debate tactic".

I'm not right because of my background, I'm right because using something, like a name, from another culture with no concern about the effect of doing so is literally the definition of cultural insensitivity.

Tell me then, what possible repercussions could this have? I mean having a car named after them isn't exactly a bad thing considering what native are usually known for

[Hathradic States]

All "check your privilege" is, as said by others, is "you don't know because of your background". It furthermore implies that because of your background, that you are therefore infallibly correct.
There is no actual basis in it.

It's kind of some new-age, advanced reverse racism.
It's pretty fucking shameful as a "debate tactic".

I'm not right because of my background, I'm right because using something, like a name, from another culture with no concern about the effect of doing so is literally the definition of cultural insensitivity.

Does that also make it culturally insensitive for us to call Irish made whiskey Irish? Or a French kiss a French kiss?

Using a derogatory term for something would be culturally insensitive, yes (example: Washington Redskins. God I hate them), but using a proper name? Not so much.

[Coffee Cakes]

All "check your privilege" is, as said by others, is "you don't know because of your background". It furthermore implies that because of your background, that you are therefore infallibly correct.
There is no actual basis in it.

It's kind of some new-age, advanced reverse racism.
It's pretty fucking shameful as a "debate tactic".

And the worst problem is it's EVERYWHERE lately.

I'm sorry... this is getting sigged.



*Not applying this to Makki, as I have not been involved in the debate*

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

I'm not right because of my background, I'm right because using something, like a name, from another culture with no concern about the effect of doing so is literally the definition of cultural insensitivity.

Tell me then, what possible repercussions could this have? I mean having a car named after them isn't exactly a bad thing considering what native are usually known for

How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in?
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

[The Grey Wolf]

Tell me then, what possible repercussions could this have? I mean having a car named after them isn't exactly a bad thing considering what native are usually known for

How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in?
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

The Cherokee didn't seem to give a damn.

[Samozaryadnyastan]

And you're using your background as argument to that point.
And that's fair enough, you claim to have been raised in the Culture, so you're obviously in a position to state whether or not you feel it is.
I personally disagree, but that's a personal thing.

My major objection is to the legitimisation of "check your privilege".

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in?
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

The Cherokee didn't seem to give a damn.

Which doesn't change the fact that using their name without consulting them is culturally insensitive.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

[Hathradic States]

The Cherokee didn't seem to give a damn.

Which doesn't change the fact that using their name without consulting them is culturally insensitive.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

You've mentioned that whole "culturally insensitive" =/= "offensive" thing at least twice now, Miss Makki, most of us get your point.

Now, why care if it isn't offensive? Name one good reason to.

[Vitaphone Racing]

I don't like bigots and people who make stereotypes. I'm not apologizing for that fact.

Yes, this position of privilege which you just assume I have even though you literally know not one thing about me and only assume I'm arguing from a position of privilege because I'm arguing against you...

We shouldn't. We aren't legally obligated to for starters.

Yes it is.

Is your sense of what is the right thing to do and the wrong thing dictated by what is legal and what isn't?

No.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Which doesn't change the fact that using their name without consulting them is culturally insensitive.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

You've mentioned that whole "culturally insensitive" =/= "offensive" thing at least twice now, Miss Makki, most of us get your point.

Now, why care if it isn't offensive? Name one good reason to.

Empathy.

[Hathradic States]

You've mentioned that whole "culturally insensitive" =/= "offensive" thing at least twice now, Miss Makki, most of us get your point.

Now, why care if it isn't offensive? Name one good reason to.

Empathy.

I said good reason. Empathy hardly is.

And, actually, I was referring to the Cherokee people, not to the guys making the car.

[Nazi Flower Power]

Which doesn't change the fact that using their name without consulting them is culturally insensitive.
"Culturally insensitive"=/="offensive".

You've mentioned that whole "culturally insensitive" =/= "offensive" thing at least twice now, Miss Makki, most of us get your point.

Now, why care if it isn't offensive? Name one good reason to.

Who said you were supposed to care?

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Empathy.

I said good reason. Empathy hardly is.

And, actually, I was referring to the Cherokee people, not to the guys making the car.

Empathy is a good reason for anyone who isn't a sociopath.

[Hathradic States]

I said good reason. Empathy hardly is.

And, actually, I was referring to the Cherokee people, not to the guys making the car.

Empathy is a good reason for anyone who isn't a sociopath.

Then I am a sociopath. Yay, I always knew it.

[Hathradic States]

You've mentioned that whole "culturally insensitive" =/= "offensive" thing at least twice now, Miss Makki, most of us get your point.

Now, why care if it isn't offensive? Name one good reason to.

Who said you were supposed to care?

Probably someone...somewhere...very likely with a neckbeard...I'm stopping this joke now, because it would offend sooo may people.

[New Maldorainia]

Going by the idea of consulting, companies would sit around trying to find the most boring and bland names just to ensure no one was offended. You can't please everyone, and using a historic nameplate makes sense, except to enthusiasts of the original not happy with the type of vehicle this is.

[Algonquin Ascendancy]

Going by the idea of consulting, companies would sit around trying to find the most boring and bland names just to ensure no one was offended. You can't please everyone, and using a historic nameplate makes sense, except to enthusiasts of the original not happy with the type of vehicle this is.

Why? Because asking people's permission to use their name is that difficult?
As is stated in your OP, the Cherokee aren't offended by the use of their name, so what would it have cost Jeep if they had just written a letter to tribal leaders saying "We would like to use your name for one of our vehicles, is that okay with you?"

[New Maldorainia]

Going by the idea of consulting, companies would sit around trying to find the most boring and bland names just to ensure no one was offended. You can't please everyone, and using a historic nameplate makes sense, except to enthusiasts of the original not happy with the type of vehicle this is.

Why? Because asking people's permission to use their name is that difficult?
As is stated in your OP, the Cherokee aren't offended by the use of their name, so what would it have cost Jeep if they had just written a letter to tribal leaders saying "We would like to use your name for one of our vehicles, is that okay with you?"

I am sure after using Grand Cherokee for so long without a peep, Chrysler never thought anyone would bring this issue up, which I do not blame them for.