A Modern World (AMW) Applications Center

[Hibernordia]

Now, unless Councordia decided to claim the rest of Northern Italy, I propose expanding the borders of the WRE to encompass the remaining areas. As far as the military technology that Italy, well, I'm pretty set on Spanish kit. That, and, just in case something should change, I'd not want to write all that into my factbook only to have to remove it later on. Of course, such an expansion would increase population, so any necessary economic adjustments would be made.

Should you do so, can I lay claim to the Italian military stuff?

[Chrinthania]

I think that I'm not going to expand into all of Northern Italy. 23 million odd persons is too much, now that I've done all the math.

[Amerique]

I wonder if we can bother Kyr into restarting his Kingdom of Lombardy idea.

[United Kongo]

The Socialist Federation of the Congo (SFC)

Ideal Claims: Preferably the Democratic republic of the Congo as well as the Kongo speaking areas of Angola and the Republic of Congo

GOVERNMENT:
The SFC is officially a federal state, in that it is broken down into several Socialist republics that have some degree of autonomy from the central government. Politically the idea was that each of the Republics would be made to represent a home for the Congo’s vast array of ethnic groups and would be able to better address the needs of the local region better then a central government. However is reality each republic still has a multitude of different ethnic groups and the only real autonomy held by the republics is what official languages they use for government.

The Parliament of the Socialist Federation is made up of two chambers, the Peoples Congress with representatives being made in proportion with the population and the Nationalities Congress, made up from representatives from the Republics. All members of government must be a part of the only legal political Party, the United Congo Communist Party (UCCP). All true power in the Congo however, lies within the Executive, that is the Peoples Council. Made up of several high ranking UCCP members and Premiers of the Republics, the Peoples Council is headed by the Chief Premier of the State, who is supposed to act as a figurehead for the state and the council.

The Current Chief Premier of the State is Dawoud Nkandu, one of the original embers of the UCCP and a veteran from the civil war that saw the SFC created.

HISTORY
Human habitation on the area that makes up the Congo can be traced back thousands of years to the earliest human remains. For most of it’s history the area has been home to numerous hunter-gatherer tribes with the human population being limited by dense jungle and tropical diseases. During the 8th and 9th century AD saw the large scale migrations of the Bantu people from the north into the Congo area. This would have a large impact on the area as the Bantu’s would mostly display the local population from their greater numbers and iron working skills. This allowed them to take up successful farming and fishing along the Atlantic coast and Congo river system.
By the early 13th century, Islam had begun to arrive in the region. Arriving from traders from the east, the new religion would soon have a large impact on the shape of the Congo states as it proved popular among the larger kingdoms that were forming at the time. The influx of traders also helped increase the rate of technological growth in the region and saw the development of more complex state along the river system.

European Contact arrived during the 15th in the Form of Western traders and explorers. Although conquest of the interior was not a priority, many of them established trading posts in which to trade valuable African goods such as Ivory, diamonds and slaves in return for Guns and other European technologies. This would have a huge impact on the history of the Congo as it gave rise to the Bakongo speaking country, the Sultanate of the Kongo. Because of it’s geographic location at the mouth of the Congo river, The Sultanate of the Kongo was best able to exploit the European traders.

From the late 15th century to the early 19th century was period of dominance for the Sultanate of the Kongo which rapidly expanded along the Congo river trade network with the help of Guns and advanced technologies, which saw them gain a monopoly over many resources. Many of these conflicts were also known as the ‘’River Jihads” as religion was also a major catalyst for expansion. By the 19th century, the Sultanate of Kongo covered a large portion of the modern day SFC. An Islamic Revolution in the 1830s saw the removal of the hereditary monarchy in favour of a quasi Oligarchic/Theocratic/Monarchy system. During this time also saw the Kongo fall behind the West in terms of technologies. Increased Western interest in the region and it’s resources lead to the disastrous battle of Loango in 1884. The Kongo was reduced to a European colony in all but name.

European control of the Congo would come to an end during the 1950s with the Rise of many independence movements in the colony. They ranged from restoring the old Sultanate system, to a modern republic to ethnic separatists but all wanted to end European foreign rule. Faced with such opposition, the European cut their losses and granted the Colony independence in 1957. Almost immediately the country ran into trouble and was plunged into a vicious multi sided civil war from 1964-1976 with the victory of the Communist factions and the creation of the Socialist Federation of the Congo.

CULTURE
The SFC remains a very ethnically divided nation with hundreds of Nationalities of varying sizes laying scattered across the large country. The Largest and most dominant of these being the Bakongo, Luba and Mongo. As a result of this, the SFC has attempted to create a unique sense of nationalism, where one is aware and proud of their ethnicity but also their Congo identity as well. This helps to prevent smaller minorities from being oppressed and also prevent the country from being Balkanized. Despite attempts to remove it’s role, Religion still remains an important life with Islam being the biggest followed by local religions and Christinaity. Heavy emphasis is put on the community and the family rather than the individual so that generally it is seen better to burden oneself to help others then act out of selfishness and it is considered ones duty to raise a large family of children.

ECONOMY
The economy of the SFC is officially a state run economy with it running on means such as state controlled means of production, collectivization, industrial manufacturing and centralized administrative planning. This is seen as the only way by many to bring the Congolese economy up to strength with the West and make it self reliant. The Congolese Economy still remain heavily dependent on agriculture (such as Rubber, Coffee, sugar, maize, rice), Fishing, Mining (diamonds, Cobalt ore, Coltan, Copper) and forestry. However their has been a pick up in Manufacturing of cheap electronic and industrial goods.


MILITARY:
The Armed forces of the SFC are divided mainly into three branches, the Army, Navy and Air force. The Army currently is the largest of all branches generally also seen as the most prestigious. It maintains a large standing force and even larger reservist pool due to the countries large population. Low level in insurgencies in the country and a large military tradition has helped create an experienced and well trained force. The major drawback in all branches is the chronic lack of technology with many logistical vehicles, armour and weapons being long ago out of use in many western states. Tropical and rugged conditions also mean that the military will often choose reliability over new technology and has lead to a military culture of scoring more high tech weapons. The Navy currently only consists of a few old vessels, although a large supplement of patrol boats for the river system and the air force even smaller with just a few helicopters and ancient recon planes.

[Iansisle]

The SFC looks pretty solid to me. And not just because I'm a supplier of low, low priced reliable goods or because the Gull Flag Republic is looking to move inventory left over from the Empire in order to increase its global influence! That would be a cynical assumption.

I suppose the main question is one of socialism. Would the SFC look more to the Kursoites or the Igovians? Or would they prefer a third, more moderate path?

[United Kongo]

The SFC looks pretty solid to me. And not just because I'm a supplier of low, low priced reliable goods or because the Gull Flag Republic is looking to move inventory left over from the Empire in order to increase its global influence! That would be a cynical assumption.

I suppose the main question is one of socialism. Would the SFC look more to the Kursoites or the Igovians? Or would they prefer a third, more moderate path?

Are those both AMW strains of thought?

If so could I please have some more information on the two to better make my decision thanks

oh, and cheap guns are always good

[Chrinthania]

SFC gets a hearty yes from me! Looks good! Nice to see a player interested in having an African nation. Kurosite and Igovian are AMW strains of thought. Beddgelert can probably give you some information on that, or Walmington-on-Sea/Dra-pol.

Again, solid application. I'm looking forward to you becoming an AMW member!

[Beddgelert]

Looks reasonable to me, Kongo chap.

(I suppose in theory the general collapse of Islamic power outside of Turkic Central Asia in AMW's middle ages could throw a spanner in the works, but hopefully someone will eventually come along in the remaining southern portion of Arabia, or in northern/eastern Africa to keep things ticking over, and if all else fails I suppose we can always just assume that Central Africa is simply where a few refugees ended up starting again or something of that sort.)

As to the Igovian vs. Kurosite (AKA Chaoist) strains of Communist thought in AMW, now...

This originates with Graeme of the Cornitouti Clan Igo, in Geletia (today Beddgelert), in south-eastern Europe.
I've never pinned it down exactly, but most likely Graeme began to publish fairly cohesive theories in the 1960s, first at small illegal presses (at the time, Geletia was under a highly unpopular minority Christian Principality) and later perhaps through foreign publishers.
The Igovians, as they became known, were one of the most active resistance movements facing the Principality during the 1970s and early 1980s, and took part in the May Revolution of 1982, which over-threw the Principality and created Beddgelert. However, they represented a minority concentrated in the thinly-populated south of the country, and the new Federal Democratic Republic would not be Communist.
Today, the (Igovian) League of Communists is the opposition party in Beddgelert, and is facing increasing persecution. Only the small republic of Cornitoutia (IRL: Turkish Thrace excluding Istanbul; one of nine constituent republics in Beddgelert) has a Communist-lead local government, under Graeme's son, Sopworth Ap Graeme, who has also travelled abroad as a teenager in the 1980s, just after the democratic revolution in Geletia, to take part in foreign anti-colonial resistance movements, notably in Ceyloba (part of RL Sri Lanka ruled by Walmington on Sea), where he was not successful.

The movement also has some traction in tiny Wyclyfe, also in Eastern Europe, one of the successors to the Grand Empire of the Shield, but that dirt-poor state of less than a million people isn't wholly committed to Igo's ideas, and is also influenced by the Chaoists and probably other ideas besides. There's something of a competition there, and the Chaoists probably have the better of the Igovians.

Igo's ideas put much stock in worker self management, and if the USSR existed in AMW they'd probably call the Igovians 'Council Communists' or something more derogatory. Generally, the movement is socially liberal and favours direct democracy where practical, with layer upon layer of popular councils, and representatives subject to recall votes at any time.

The Igovians view the Chaoists as authoritarian, and Graeme believes that Chaoism is really a Drapoel-nationalist movement that by necessity features an anti-colonial element, but is not necessarily interested in personal liberty.

This arose in Dra-pol (Burma and part of Thailand) in the mid 20th century when the country was under colonial rule, mostly that of Walmington, with a small Franco-American concession, and was initially devised by a rebel fighter called Chao Shih-an, who later took on the [cadre name? Party name? Nom de guerre?] Kurosian.

It's probably closer to stereotypical views of authoritarian Communism, dominated by the Party. Chao's dead, assassinated by an unidentified Christian fanatic while on a foreign tour in the late 1970s, but his successor, Wang Kuo-fang, AKA Hotan, continues his legacy. After a partially successful liberation war, the Chaoist People's Republic of Dra-pol rules RL Burma, while the RL Thai portion of the nation is still under capitalist control, supported by the old colonial powers and their allies.

Back in Eastern Europe, a portion of Geletia that was the last hold-out of the Principality eventually fell to a Chaoist-inspired revolution lead by a Colonel Kezo (also a pseudonym; I don't think the Chaoists even believe in military rank structures) who was politically educated in the CPRD. The Socialist Union of y Berfeddwlad covers IRL Moldova, and is muscling in to tiny adjacent Wyclyfe so as to secure access to the high seas and receive much needed food and fuel aid from Dra-pol.

So, in short-

Igovian Communism arose in the 1960s in South Eastern Europe, and is a fairly liberal, council-based, almost utopian movement. It does not have control of any national governments, but is a somewhat influential force in Beddgelert and Wyclyfe. The Igovians in Cornitoutia (part of Beddgelert) are politically under siege, but still try to support revolutionaries abroad in what limited fashion they can, typically by sending a tiny team of well-educated partisans to teach and/or fight.

Chaoist/Kurosite Communism arose in South East Asia in the 19(40s/50s?), and is more authoritarian, often associated with the brutal Drapoel Wars of the second half of the last century. It holds sway in the CPR Dra-pol (Burma) and Y Berfeddwlad (Moldova) and is increasing its footprint in Wyclyfe (south-western Ukraine). The Chaoists also support guerrillas in the National Republic of Drapol, where they are fighting some of the world's most powerful empires, and appear to be essentially unconcerned about what enemies they make around the world.

[Cassanos]

First off, a belated hello and welcome to Councordia. I don't look into this thread for a week and get a new neighbour. I like that .
Hi, I'm Cass and I'm playing Nibelunc, your northern neighbour.

Just to clarify the border issue here, will you be taking all of southern Germany up to the Danube, or a smaller part? Either one is fine with me, but if you choose the latter, I will probably expand southward so we don't have a 50km-sliver of land between us which nobody is ever going to claim . Would that be okay for everybody?
As for possible shared history (you have German-Catholic Suabinc to your north and Celtic Bohaemia to the north-east), I think it might be best to take that to the IRC.

[Iansisle]

Ah, yes, thank you BG. Heh, forgot those aren't commonly known terms outside of my little world.

[United Kongo]

well it seems to me that the SFC would most likely have adopted a Chaoist/Kurosite communist ideology for number of reasons, mainly because the Congolese Communist movement would have a appeared around the same time as the Chaoists in Dra-Pol and so would have probably been influenced by them.

The main appeal of Communism in the Congo is that it could be used to unite it's various ethnic groups, so the Igovian ideology probably would be viewed as Chaotic and incapable of holding the country together

Also, the authoritarian element of Chaoism would be seen as necessary to speed up the Congo's development to the rest of the world so yeah

[Chrinthania]

Okay, to accomplish an idea, I had thought about expanding to meet Councourdia, but, that's going to be an expansion of monumental proportions. I don't want 23 million more people, but, honestly, I haven't been able to stop thinking about Venice.

So, having ideas on Venice, I put forth a proposal to expand the Western Roman Empire to include a portion of the Region of Veneto, specifically the Province of Rovigo and the Province of Venezia. Together, that would add 1,087,207 to the population of the Western Empire, leaving the rest of Northern Italy for someone else. There isn't much, if any, important Italian defense builders there, but, whatever is there can go to whomever takes the remainder of Italy.

[United Kongo]

so how should I proceed?

[Cassanos]

Write up a factbook on the offsite forums and we can work out any remaining issues there. After that, feel free to shake up AMW .

[Councordia]

Regarding geography, what my population realistically be? I'm looking for around ten million.

[Hibernordia]

Ideal Claims: Preferably the Democratic republic of the Congo as well as the Kongo speaking areas of Angola and the Republic of Congo

Much of those land is actually free. Any specifics so far on the areas you'll claim? So I can color you into the map.

Regarding geography, what my population realistically be? I'm looking for around ten million.

Well, from some of the whisperings that I hear, you can't really afford all of those high-tech stuff with just a small population. A small population means a smaller production and more limited income. Even Israel (pop 8 million) can only afford to develop a few stuff and is not exactly the big weapons seller that (from what I gather), your nation is. My advice is to take Austria + Bavaria south of the Danube + Liechtenstein (pop 14 mil). However, I will not object to you having the rest of northern Italy (pop 22.8 mil), with its good manufacturing base, the Italian military industry (Fincantieri shipyards are in Trieste, Agusta (of AgustaWestland) and Aermacchi are based in Lombardy, Fiat is in Turin (Piedmont)), and sources for grain and foodstuffs.

[Beddgelert]

My impression is that the remains of Austria and Germany (and Liechtenstein) makes sense, since Councordia was aiming for a lower population than even this gives, landlocked, and mountainous. And then we've still one good-sized Central European plot left for new recruits. Taking all that would make Councordia more than three times bigger than planned.

I'm afraid though, in my estimation at least, it's highly unlikely that Councordia is going to be an arms exporter on the scale desired, partly because it's a small country as mentioned, partly because there's simply not the market at the moment, and partly because nobody's going to buy a pimpmygun sniper rifle with the scope mounted nearer the muzzle than the shooter, or a light VTOL supersonic transport that can't really do anything that an aircraft millions of pounds cheaper couldn't do significantly better Aiming to take the place of a Sweden-like defence manufacturer might be viable in the long term, I'd imagine.

[United Kongo]

Ideal Claims: Preferably the Democratic republic of the Congo as well as the Kongo speaking areas of Angola and the Republic of Congo

Much of those land is actually free. Any specifics so far on the areas you'll claim? So I can color you into the map.

Ok well it would consist of all of the modern day Democratic Republic of Congo and the Republic of the Congo, as well as the Provinces of Cabinda (exclave), Zaire, Uige, Bengo, Luanda and Cuanza Norte of Angola. If this is to big I can cut down on my claim on the Republic of Congo

[United Kongo]

also if it's not to much, then the Nyanga province of Gabon

[Chrinthania]

I have been wanting to include Northern Italy in the Western Roman Empire. I had, prior to placing the application on the thread, had attempted to include the whole of Italy in the WRE. Of course, Beddgelert's objection was well-founded and, in the option of keeping a spirit of compromise with Beddgelert (whose opinions are highly valued in AMW), I omitted Northern Italy. The problem is that this has played on my mind since day one.

But, I'm not done toying with borders. I'd like to drop the claim on the Canary Islands. It's rather out of place for the Western Roman Empire and, really, I don't want it. It's only use is a holiday destination for Romans, and, quite frankly, we've enough of that. So, the population sans Canary Islands would drop to around 104 million (I will get a final number if this is approved).

So, I submit to the community the option of the Western Roman Empire expanding to encompass it's current borders with the addition of the remainder of Italy. That would bring the total WRE population to around 106 million people. For those needing a listing, that would mean the addition of Aosta Valley, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, Liguria, Lombardy, Piedmont, Trentino-Alto Adige, and the parts of Veneto already not in my claim. That's a large expansion population-wise, and I understand objections based on fears of wanting to become a superpower.

That being said, I do not wish to become a superpower, let alone a world power. Having the ability to be a regional power in the Mediterranean is the extent of Roman military might I'm interested in having. To that end, I am willing to forgo claims to Italian military kit en masse. I've already incorporated the Spanish military kit, and I really don't want to go around trying to suddenly add into the mix the Italian military kit. It can be left to the "ooh, I need this or that" of random and varied AMW nations if need be, or, in turn, given in whole to one player that could use it. Militarily, I just want enough power to protect the homeland from invasion and to keep peace in the Mediterranean.

We are all fine with Walmington being the world power that can project to any continent needed when the time arrives. We are all fine with Cassanos having the economic and demographic ability to have an even greater force, but, we also know he doesn't have all the means available to project it. Amerique and Valendia are also able to project internationally. There are plenty of nations that can, at this point, do the whole World Power job. There is even potential for new players to do the same (for good or evil). The WRE isn't interested in such matters.

To alleviate fears of some economic boom from this, I'm willing to keep the GDP per capita between 25,000-27,500. At 25K per capita, that would come out to a GDP of around 2.6 Trillion, not much of an increase over current GDP. This would keep us poor enough to prevent us from becoming some sort of world power. At 27,500 per cap, that bringss it to 2.85Tn. Several hundred billion more than current (which is around 2.5Tn already).

This, then, gives me a land border with Beddgelert, and Councordia. This assists in the mutual history with Councordia, giving me the ability to have him rebel against Imperial rule and carve his own nation, plus an easier way for the Celts to invade along with Valendians in the Great War. This also gives me extra border with Valendia for the same reasoning.

Finally, there is one other objection that could be raised. What if someone else wants a European nation? Certainly, that's a possibility. Now, as I see it, there's still the main British Isle remaining along with a sliver in the low countries for potential applicants. There is also plenty of room for North and South America to fill in along with Asia and Africa. There isn't a reason we can't expand the other continents with new applicants. Our applications process allows us some ability to direct someone to other places if their nation fits. There are, quite possibly, literally thousands of possible nation ideas that could work on the other 5 livable continents in AMW. Of course, some people want to be where most of the action is in AMW, and that, in general, is Europe. But, if we can get people into the Americas, Africa, or Asia, then the action will build in those continents as well. That isn't to say I want to dissuade someone from coming to Europe for a nation, but there is still room in Europe.

Anyway, that's my proposal.

[Walmington on Sea]

Any real opposition I might have felt towards such an expansion, Chrinthania, has faded since we've lost about as many players as we've gained in the latest age of AMW, and I think that even if future applicants want to play European states that either don't fit in Great Britain or the Low Countries or arrive after they've been claimed, parts of North Africa, Asia, and the Americas can probably be made to work, given how AMW's history and ethnic dispersal stands.


On a related note, the (predictable?) vanishing of NG promises to mess things up for WoS and Dra-pol, and while I shan't be surprised if he comes back within a few months, I think that I'd like to plant Godfrey's flag on Singapore, in an effort to retain some semblance of continuity.

I'm seriously thinking of extending Dra-pol down the Malay peninsula to cover what was Emesa ((which I may or may not be keen to return should NG ever do likewise)), probably with the NRD consuming the bulk of it, making the Nationalists seem a little more viable and important in the eyes of the world. If I do such, I may move the Walmingtonian enclave from Sittwe to Phuket or Penang, or simply have Singapore stand in and perhaps offer either or both of those up for further foreign concessions in Dra-pol ((in addition to those held by WoS and Amerique)), if anyone might be interested.

I think I'll try to reinvigorate Dra-pol by rolling the clock back a bit. The CPRD's become an aspiring Communist superpower, bristling with industry and fast jets. That's not where it started, and I might try to get going again with it being more like the Iron Age+ ((with added assault-rifles!)) that it was in AMW V1.0.

Lots more to say on this, but I may visit the discussion thread later.

I've also been mulling over an additional Pacific outpost to complete the globe-spanning of the English Empire, be it a colony ((Hawaii?)) or merely a base ((Wake Island?)) but that doesn't seem urgent so I might step away from it for now.


In short, I'm thinking of absorbing Emesa into the NRD, turning Singapore into an English colony, putting Sittwe back under Hotan's control, and offering up Phuket, Penang, or both as further European concessions in Dra-pol, and I'm okay with Chrinthania's proposal.

[Chrinthania]

I find no problem in your expansion, WoS. There's nothing the world needs more than more Hotan, right? NG's appearing and disappearing act will, most likely, amount to a few months away with a triumphant return and a new idea to boot.

I also appreciate your candor in the matter of my expansion. I have been thinking that we need to attempt to populate the remaining 4 continents more. Certainly the action surrounds Europe at the moment, but, as I suggested, a few more people in the Americas and Asia/Africa should get those continents in motion.

As much as I want AMW to expand, I can't seem to come up with an idea to create the spark needed to show the NSVerse that AMW is very fertile ground for MT nations wanting to enjoy a more detailed world with all the intricacies of RL mixed in with our own nation's quirky behaviors. I wish I new what to do. Though, to be honest, I suppose the idea of instant-nation-just-add-water that some want is more compelling than having to sit down an actually work out how a new nation can fit into an existing framework. Even if the framework is set up to quickly allow for the addition of a sudden appearance into our little world.

Maybe we should see if Chingiz would offer to smite some infidels on live TV for a bit of advertisement for AMW?

[Greater Belkan Reich]

OoC: I want to join but I think the nation of NIBELUNC has taken the locale that I was aiming for. What is the current map of AMW looking like at the moment. If you guys don't mind me asking.

[Beddgelert]

Chrin and WoS know how I feel, so I'll skip further waffle on that.

Greater Belkan Reich (oh, no need to worry about the OOC tag, BTW, this is essentially an OOC thread), first off, hi, thanks for the interest!

The busiest part of AMW at the moment, with the least free space, is indeed Europe (though we have at least a few nations present on most continents). There's space off-shore, and on the continent the only real gap of significance is between Valendia and Nibelunc, in Belgium, Luxembourg, and some southern/western parts of the Netherlands and western parts of Germany (some pretty heavily populated parts of Germany, if I'm not much mistaken, in the Rhineland).

The main reason that we don't really promote the map to potential applicants is that we're more interested in hearing about your ideas, and what you want to play, and then, if the community's on board, you and we try to figure out where the nation you've proposed might fit in.

AMW's ethnic and political geography is somewhat different to that of the real world (we subscribe to the idea that humanity arose in Africa and spread from there, but after that there are thousands of years of deviation from RL ethno-cultural history!). If you're looking at playing, say, a Germanic nation, they might fit as well in Iran as Central Europe, in AMW terms, because we have a sort-of Germanic empire centred in Ukraine, that once dominated Central Asia, and we still have Greeks in Anatolia, and Celts in the Balkans, and so on.

Talk to us about what you'd want to play, and maybe we can find something mutually appealing.

[Kedri]

My nation is PT and with pirates (which were real) However we are a nation if benders but for realaism My pirates will not know bending in this thread. Does that make us eligible?