Question for Paulinists

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?

[Grenartia]

A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?

1. I don't. Then again, I base my beliefs more on the gospels than the epistles.

2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

Also, we're Christians, not Paulinists.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians, why not call yourself a Christist, or something?

[Silent Majority]

I'm so confused.

[Katganistan]

Oh, I wouldn't vote for Ron OR Rand if you paid me.

[Grenartia]

Oh, I wouldn't vote for Ron OR Rand if you paid me.

Sigging this.

[Raeyh]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

If you want to know, I was born with Italian heritage, so naturally I would be Catholic and that's what they taught us.

Right now I'm a heretic and an apostate, so it doesn't really matter what the Church teaches or what any given faithful says, you included. From my perspective, I'm already hellbound.

[Veblenia]

All I know is I gotta rob Peter to pay him.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Well, yes, Roman Catholics number among the Paulinists as well.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

A couple of points rather fundamental to Paulinism have long bothered me, and I'd like to get some input on how Paulinists understand them.

First, how do you know that Paul wasn't lying or deluded about the circumstances and events of his claimed conversion? Second, how do you reconcile your claim that Jesus was the Christ with Jesus's clear belief in a god and (for those who hold to these interpretations--I realize that they're not universal, and if you don't agree with this interpretation you're not who this part is directed towards, so please just ignore it) claims of divinity?

2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.

[Tmutarakhan]

It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

The problem is with your refusal to use language that conveys meaning.

[Druidville]

Oh, I wouldn't vote for Ron OR Rand if you paid me.

Rand seems more Libertarian than Ron, who dual-classes in Psycho/Whacky.

As for the religion OP.... not even going to start on it.

[Miss Defied]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Well, yes, Roman Catholics number among the Paulinists as well.

Why do you consider RCs Paulinists? I always thought of Paulinists as various christians who were like, "Paul said this" and "Paul said that" and didn't have much to say about what Jesus said or did. From my RC upbringing, I'd have to say that they put a lot of stock in the gospels. Opposed to some Protestants who focus more on the epistles.
Also is there really a concrete definition of a Paulinist?

[Risottia]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.

Of course, there are other books in the NT written by not-Paul that convey the same attitude and gospel as Paul did, but I'm sure that this good little Blutheran will tell me that, say, James was written after Paul wrote Galatians or that James' writings were somehow influenced by Paul's as he lay in jail, but whatever.

Of course, as for the second question, Jesus was God in human flesh ("Immanuel," or "God is with us", as told in Isaiah). So he was both God and man.

[Coccygia]

Paul basically cooked up what we now know as Xtianity on his own out of whole cloth* and passed it off as the teachings of Jesus, whom he never met (unless you buy his conversion story, and don't think it was a hallucination anyway).


*Mixed metaphor?

[Northwest Slobovia]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

I've wondered about that "almost". Are there any surviving Christian churches that don't consider Paul an authority? Were there ever?

[Condunum]

2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.

The common term for the people you are referring to is Christian. Every fucking thread you make about them, in any way, devolves into an argument about whether or not they are Christians. Why can't you just accept that you do not own the term Christian any more than the Church owns the term "Marriage," move the fuck on, and drop this Paulinist garbage?



As for the OP, how can you determine if any book of the bible is not lying or written under delusion?

Christ is a translation of the Hebrew term מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), the Messiah. I'd say it's impossible for him to be God, but hey, people can believe what every they want, for what every weird reason they want.

[AiliailiA]

Who is Pauline?

[Condunum]

Who is Pauline?

Any branch of Christianity that associates it's beliefs with Paul's doctrines.

[Grenartia]

By Paulinist, you mean Roman Catholics, right?

Knowing Bluth, he means anyone who follows Paul's writings, which includes Catholics, but also Orthodoxes and Protestants. I'd say, almost everyone calling himself a Christian.

Btw, about Bluth's question, a non-Christian answer: one could reconcile Jesus' belief in the God of Abraham (he was an observant Jew after all) and his divinity by considering that every human descends from God (as per Genesis) and, through his god-given conscience/soul, has some "divine" qualities.

Then again, I'm neither a Christian nor a Paulinist, so I could be making some gross theological mistakes here.

I fail to see how belief in a God automatically excludes said believer from being divine, which is what Bluth seems to be asking.

2. It seems that you're failing to understand that Jesus being the Messiah automatically means He can't be God.

1. It seems that you're failing to properly read what I wrote.

If you want to separate yourself from Christians

2. Why would I want to separate myself from what I am? I'm just trying to distinguish between Christians and non-Christians, such as Paulinists.

1. Ok then. Tell me what you wrote, and how I misread it.

2. You don't own the term Christian.