Designing an United Nations Charter [CODN Only/OOC Thread]

[Ascoobis]

Hello, I am the CoDN's RP Administrator and I hope the Roleplaying nations of The Coalition of Democratic Nations have found this Thread. Now, shall the discussion begin with a UN? What needs to be in the first draft? Should its ratification at an unknown location be RP? Structure of this organization? Headquarters? Duties? Relations? Differ from RL UN? Effects on relations? Etc. Let's get this train of thought(s) and opinions on a roll. Choo!! Choo! ^_^

In case you don't know what the RL UN Charter is. I hope it proves inspiring.

[Dragomerian Islands]

What I would like to see on our version:

1. Veto Power on UN Resolutions and decisions being given to the Empire of Japan and Ascoobis (as key players in the 2 prior organizations),
2. A full list of rights given to the people of the member nations,
3. A ban on nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons,
4. Clear definitions on how to define a country's land, sea, and air borders
5. a section on trade and international relations,
6. A defined UN defense force,
7. and A international court.

[Afriastan]

What I would like to see on our version:

1. Veto Power on UN Resolutions and decisions being given to the Empire of Japan and Ascoobis (as key players in the 2 prior organizations),
2. A full list of rights given to the people of the member nations,
3. A ban on nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons,
4. Clear definitions on how to define a country's land, sea, and air borders
5. a section on trade and international relations,
6. A defined UN defense force,
7. and A international court.

Afriastan seconds this we would also like to see maybe a Joint Space Program

[Ascoobis]

My preliminary vision of the UN so far

• I say that the charter should be a mix of the most relevant UN laws and policies, the Geneva Convention, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. With other documents as separate departments of the organization, like the Outer Space Treaty.
• A single body(Several representatives per country but one vote). Motions would require a majority(55% of votes) to pass.
• Make the IC an ongoing RP thread. Meeting on the same thread for every vote and motion proposed.

We'll see what happens next.

[Khumieres]

My preliminary vision of the UN so far

• I say that the charter should be a mix of the most relevant UN laws and policies, the Geneva Convention, and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. With other documents as separate departments of the organization, like the Outer Space Treaty.
• A single body(Several representatives per country but one vote). Motions would require a majority(55% of votes) to pass.
• Make the IC an ongoing RP thread. Meeting on the same thread for every vote and motion proposed.

We'll see what happens next.

I like this proposal.

[Kestvala]

I oppose veto power in any way whatsoever, given to anybody.

[Dragomerian Islands]

I oppose veto power in any way whatsoever, given to anybody.

Said veto power would give the former ATCO and former ICPS a way to prevent political and cultural suppression. And it is the main requirement my nation would not negotiate on.

[Ascoobis]

I oppose veto power in any way whatsoever, given to anybody.

Said veto power would give the former ATCO and former ICPS a way to prevent political and cultural suppression. And it is the main requirement my nation would not negotiate on.

I don't see your reasoning?.... Equal voting sounds fair in the international community.....It'd be ridiculous to have potentially one nation ruin a measure supported by a dozen others. At least in the way I plan to propose the UN.

[Dragomerian Islands]

Said veto power would give the former ATCO and former ICPS a way to prevent political and cultural suppression. And it is the main requirement my nation would not negotiate on.

I don't see your reasoning?.... Equal voting sounds fair in the international community.....It'd be ridiculous to have potentially one nation ruin a measure supported by a dozen others. At least in the way I plan to propose the UN.

Well, for some examples, the RL UN grants Veto Power to some of its nations, such as China, the USA, and Russia. This measure would prevent, say an ICPS member from passing resolutions contrary to ATCO interests and vice versa.

[Ascoobis]

I don't see your reasoning?.... Equal voting sounds fair in the international community.....It'd be ridiculous to have potentially one nation ruin a measure supported by a dozen others. At least in the way I plan to propose the UN.

Well, for some examples, the RL UN grants Veto Power to some of its nations, such as China, the USA, and Russia. This measure would prevent, say an ICPS member from passing resolutions contrary to ATCO interests and vice versa.

And that veto is what causes the gridlock in the UN. Nothing would pass, not as if we're still on hostile terms or anything. Fighting tooth-and-nail and courting the neutral to get the majority of votes to complete ones own agenda sounds more exciting than....

"No." *Presses buzzard*

[Dragomerian Islands]

Well, for some examples, the RL UN grants Veto Power to some of its nations, such as China, the USA, and Russia. This measure would prevent, say an ICPS member from passing resolutions contrary to ATCO interests and vice versa.

And that veto is what causes the gridlock in the UN. Nothing would pass, not as if we're still on hostile terms or anything. Fighting tooth-and-nail and courting the neutral to get the majority of votes to complete ones own agenda sounds more exciting than....

"No." *Presses buzzard*

However, without it, a tyranny of the Majority could occur.

From an IC standpoint, my nation would endlessly demand as a way to ensure that ATCO would be unable to force its ideals onto the Empire.

[Ascoobis]

And that veto is what causes the gridlock in the UN. Nothing would pass, not as if we're still on hostile terms or anything. Fighting tooth-and-nail and courting the neutral to get the majority of votes to complete ones own agenda sounds more exciting than....

"No." *Presses buzzard*

However, without it, a tyranny of the Majority could occur.

From an IC standpoint, my nation would endlessly demand as a way to ensure that ATCO would be unable to force its ideals onto the Empire.

I doubt it. It would force coalitions to form, cooperate, change allegiance, etc. All nations have different goals. If a majority align on a single bill, than so be it. There will always be more disagreements than agreements, however. That's why persuasion of your fellow members will prove essential to pass the bills you want and rally against bills you don't. It's simple politics.

And ICly your nation would be positively ecstatic if the tables were turned?.....

Than I suppose Dragomeria will remain an Anti-UN state then(Or maybe just observer status), because it isn't ready to come to the modern world and begin compromising in a fair way with other nations like a mature government would?....If the Empire of Japan's ideals haven't shifted, than clearly the Cold War is still going on. Maybe you didn't read my proposition for the end of ICPS-ATCO conflict. It clearly stated political reforms in Dragomeria, having it start behaving like a normal nation.........Clearly you don't want to change that....I don't think there's a fair UN to form if you clearly want it to bend to your government's every whim.

[Dragomerian Islands]

However, without it, a tyranny of the Majority could occur.

From an IC standpoint, my nation would endlessly demand as a way to ensure that ATCO would be unable to force its ideals onto the Empire.

I doubt it. It would force coalitions to form, cooperate, change allegiance, etc. All nations have different goals. If a majority align on a single bill, than so be it. There will always be more disagreements than agreements, however. That's why persuasion of your fellow members will prove essential to pass the bills you want and rally against bills you don't. It's simple politics.

And ICly your nation would be positively ecstatic if the tables were turned?.....

Than I suppose Dragomeria will remain an Anti-UN state then(Or maybe just observer status), because it isn't ready to come to the modern world and begin compromising in a fair way with other nations like a mature government would?....If the Empire of Japan's ideals haven't shifted, than clearly the Cold War is still going on. Maybe you didn't read my proposition for the end of ICPS-ATCO conflict. It clearly stated political reforms in Dragomeria, having it start behaving like a normal nation.........Clearly you don't want to change that....I don't think there's a fair UN to form if you clearly want it to bend to your government's every whim.

One nation from former ATCO and one nation from former ICPS would get veto power as a way to prevent tyranny of the majority, especially as a way to prevent group from ganging up on another group. That is why the RL UN did it in theirs and why I am wanting it in our version. If there was no veto power, than what would prevent a resolution that, for example, removes New Taiwan from the Empire or removes the Philippines from the Empire? Giving one nation from each former organization some veto power would assure that neither could have their interests violated or their authority infringed by the other.

[Ascoobis]

I doubt it. It would force coalitions to form, cooperate, change allegiance, etc. All nations have different goals. If a majority align on a single bill, than so be it. There will always be more disagreements than agreements, however. That's why persuasion of your fellow members will prove essential to pass the bills you want and rally against bills you don't. It's simple politics.

And ICly your nation would be positively ecstatic if the tables were turned?.....

Than I suppose Dragomeria will remain an Anti-UN state then(Or maybe just observer status), because it isn't ready to come to the modern world and begin compromising in a fair way with other nations like a mature government would?....If the Empire of Japan's ideals haven't shifted, than clearly the Cold War is still going on. Maybe you didn't read my proposition for the end of ICPS-ATCO conflict. It clearly stated political reforms in Dragomeria, having it start behaving like a normal nation.........Clearly you don't want to change that....I don't think there's a fair UN to form if you clearly want it to bend to your government's every whim.

One nation from former ATCO and one nation from former ICPS would get veto power as a way to prevent tyranny of the majority, especially as a way to prevent group from ganging up on another group. That is why the RL UN did it in theirs and why I am wanting it in our version. If there was no veto power, than what would prevent a resolution that, for example, removes New Taiwan from the Empire or removes the Philippines from the Empire? Giving one nation from each former organization some veto power would assure that neither could have their interests violated or their authority infringed by the other.

Okay, let's compromise. Maybe not a veto, but the two nations get a few more votes than the others and can be more influential(I think the nations should switch every year to provide some balance?).

Thoughts?

[Khumieres]

One nation from former ATCO and one nation from former ICPS would get veto power as a way to prevent tyranny of the majority, especially as a way to prevent group from ganging up on another group. That is why the RL UN did it in theirs and why I am wanting it in our version. If there was no veto power, than what would prevent a resolution that, for example, removes New Taiwan from the Empire or removes the Philippines from the Empire? Giving one nation from each former organization some veto power would assure that neither could have their interests violated or their authority infringed by the other.

Okay, let's compromise. Maybe not a veto, but the two nations get a few more votes than the others and can be more influential(I think the nations should switch every year to provide some balance?).

Thoughts?

And there could be an election each year so the entire UN gets to decide what two nations has the extra votes for the current year.

[Taralus]

However, without it, a tyranny of the Majority could occur.

From an IC standpoint, my nation would endlessly demand as a way to ensure that ATCO would be unable to force its ideals onto the Empire.

I doubt it. It would force coalitions to form, cooperate, change allegiance, etc. All nations have different goals. If a majority align on a single bill, than so be it. There will always be more disagreements than agreements, however. That's why persuasion of your fellow members will prove essential to pass the bills you want and rally against bills you don't. It's simple politics.

And ICly your nation would be positively ecstatic if the tables were turned?.....

Than I suppose Dragomeria will remain an Anti-UN state then(Or maybe just observer status), because it isn't ready to come to the modern world and begin compromising in a fair way with other nations like a mature government would?....If the Empire of Japan's ideals haven't shifted, than clearly the Cold War is still going on. Maybe you didn't read my proposition for the end of ICPS-ATCO conflict. It clearly stated political reforms in Dragomeria, having it start behaving like a normal nation.........Clearly you don't want to change that....I don't think there's a fair UN to form if you clearly want it to bend to your government's every whim.

Hey...

[Ascoobis]

I doubt it. It would force coalitions to form, cooperate, change allegiance, etc. All nations have different goals. If a majority align on a single bill, than so be it. There will always be more disagreements than agreements, however. That's why persuasion of your fellow members will prove essential to pass the bills you want and rally against bills you don't. It's simple politics.

And ICly your nation would be positively ecstatic if the tables were turned?.....

Than I suppose Dragomeria will remain an Anti-UN state then(Or maybe just observer status), because it isn't ready to come to the modern world and begin compromising in a fair way with other nations like a mature government would?....If the Empire of Japan's ideals haven't shifted, than clearly the Cold War is still going on. Maybe you didn't read my proposition for the end of ICPS-ATCO conflict. It clearly stated political reforms in Dragomeria, having it start behaving like a normal nation.........Clearly you don't want to change that....I don't think there's a fair UN to form if you clearly want it to bend to your government's every whim.

Hey...

Taralus is a special case. They don't want to come out into the world(Or let the world in), Drago's Government expects the world to conform. Big difference.

Okay, let's compromise. Maybe not a veto, but the two nations get a few more votes than the others and can be more influential(I think the nations should switch every year to provide some balance?).

Thoughts?

And there could be an election each year so the entire UN gets to decide what two nations has the extra votes for the current year.

And make that it's a different nation than that elected the previous year.

[Dragomerian Islands]

Hey...

Taralus is a special case. They don't want to come out into the world(Or let the world in), Drago's Government expects the world to conform. Big difference.

And there could be an election each year so the entire UN gets to decide what two nations has the extra votes for the current year.

And make that it's a different nation than that elected the previous year.

Actually, the Empire expects the World to compromise.

I did set up an editable draft through google docs, so that we can actively set it up (I put my proposal into it to show the proposed formating):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B6q ... U9d_c/edit

[Afriastan]

Hey...

Taralus is a special case. They don't want to come out into the world(Or let the world in), Drago's Government expects the world to conform. Big difference.

And there could be an election each year so the entire UN gets to decide what two nations has the extra votes for the current year.

And make that it's a different nation than that elected the previous year.

Afriastan seconds the elections

[Ascoobis]

Taralus is a special case. They don't want to come out into the world(Or let the world in), Drago's Government expects the world to conform. Big difference.
And make that it's a different nation than that elected the previous year.

Actually, the Empire expects the World to compromise.

I did set up an editable draft through google docs, so that we can actively set it up (I put my proposal into it to show the proposed formating):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B6q ... U9d_c/edit

That would depend on what they want to compromise with.

There's a difference between debating on what will be the UN's official Ice-cream flavor and "I want to power to stop all of you from doing something if I don't like it.".

Hence our dispute over veto votes.

[Dragomerian Islands]

Actually, the Empire expects the World to compromise.

I did set up an editable draft through google docs, so that we can actively set it up (I put my proposal into it to show the proposed formating):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1B6q ... U9d_c/edit

That would depend on what they want to compromise with.

There's a difference between debating on what will be the UN's official Ice-cream flavor and "I want to power to stop all of you from doing something if I don't like it.".

Hence our dispute over veto votes.

By the way, the document is editable. I set one up so that we can visualize what we have/are debating on.

The ICPS, especially the Empire of Japan in the time period (we said 50's or 60's right?), the Empire knows that ATCO has more members, and would be at a disadvantage on a 1 nation 1 vote system. The Empire, knowing the hostility between itself and ATCO, as well as the heavy cultural and civil difference, would want a way to ensure that ATCO can not force its own policies onto the Empire through the (yet to be officially named) UN.