Proposal: Promotion of Secular Schooling [Act]

[Buffett and Colbert]

I have just submitted upon getting the OK from a Mod a redo of the Secular Public Education Act. I believe this one does not contain an ideological ban and can reach quorum. This resolutions strives to give children the opportunity to obtain a secular education, as many only have the opportunity to be educated in faith based schools against their wishes. I would like to hear what the NationStates community has to say about this proposal and a copy of the proposal can be found below.

The World Assembly,

REAFFIRMING the right to religious freedom, including the right to worship the god or gods of a person’s choice, if the person wishes to believe in any; the right to express any persons feelings about religion in a controlled and polite manner; and the right to refuse to attend, erect or demolish a religious establishment,

NOTING religion can play an important role in one's life, to guide one’s self and offer peace of mind,

STATING because of this one should always have the choice to his or her religion or philosophical beliefs,

DECLARING that it is everyone’s, man, woman or child, inherent right to refuse to accept a religion or philosophical belief,

1.Allows publicly funded schools to have a religious structure but these schools must:

a.Not punish any child in any way for not believing in what the school teaches about religion or philosophical ideas
i.The child may be reprimanded in a way approved by the NationState’s laws and international laws if the child behaves in a rude manner that disrespects and defames any religion but does allow the child to politely and in a civil manner discuss these religious ideas and philosophies with a classmate or faculty member,

2.Grants the right to the child of twelve years of age or older to decide for him or herself to decide which religion or philosophical idea he or she will believe in and adhere to and grants the child the liberty of contacting the authorities, an organization or single person if he or she thinks this right is being breached,

3.Mandates all World Assembly member governments with any style of government, including theocratical ones, to provide the funds to establish public schools that are secular in structure and these schools must:

a.Be given equal funding as faith based schools are given
b.Not be discriminated against in any way, form or fashion by the government and the government must strive to keep discrimination against these schools and those who attend them as low as possible
c.Allow members of any religion to attend the school
d.Not punish any child in any way for believing or not believing in a certain religion or philosophical idea and must not punish any child for discussing a relgious or philosophical idea if it is being discussed in a polite and civil manner

4.Further mandates all World Assembly members governments to allow the establishment of non secular and secular schools but these schools must abide by the same laws as the publicly funded ones,

5.Again reminds that this resolution does not inhibit one’s right to or not to practice any religion or believe in any philosophical idea whatsoever.

[Natural Law for All]

In the Free Land of Natural Law for All, we have no publicly funded education. We prefer to allow market competition to drive ambition among our various schools. Having said that, this will not affect us, correct?

[Rutianas]

In the Free Land of Natural Law for All, we have no publicly funded education. We prefer to allow market competition to drive ambition among our various schools. Having said that, this will not affect us, correct?

Considering that this only affects publicly funded schools, you seem to have nothing to worry about.

Now, on to my concern in the proposal.

2.Grants the right to the child of twelve years of age or older to decide for him or herself to decide which religion or philosophical idea he or she will believe in and adhere to and grants the child the liberty of contacting the authorities, an organization or single person if he or she thinks this right is being breached,

This is where a lot of proposals get into trouble. Stating an age can be a downfall. There are some races where twelve is an adult and out of school. There are some races where twelve is just out of infancy. It may be a better option to state that after a child has finished primary education or something like that.

Other than that, I rather like this proposal.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

[Belriel]

3.Mandates all World Assembly member governments with any style of government, including theocratical ones, to provide the funds to establish public schools that are secular in structure and these schools must:

a.Be given equal funding as faith based schools are given
b.Not be discriminated against in any way, form or fashion by the government and the government must strive to keep discrimination against these schools and those who attend them as low as possible
c.Allow members of any religion to attend the school
d.Not punish any child in any way for believing or not believing in a certain religion or philosophical idea and must not punish any child for discussing a relgious or philosophical idea if it is being discussed in a polite and civil manner

Based on that snippet, Natural Law for All, it would sound as if you are mandated to begin funding public schools. And then, yes, this does affect your nation. The Dominion of Belriel currently funds some of its nation's schools, but agrees that other nations should reserve the right not to do so.

2.Grants the right to the child of twelve years of age or older to decide for him or herself to decide which religion or philosophical idea he or she will believe in and adhere to and grants the child the liberty of contacting the authorities, an organization or single person if he or she thinks this right is being breached,

In regard to this segment, I am not certain as to why age, regardless of cultural differences in interpretation, was mentioned at all. This implies both that up until a certain age, the individual in question is not protected by the right to his beliefs, and that at a certain age the individual must make a firm decision on his beliefs.

I may be reading this wrong, but it is my opinion that an individual's beliefs can change over time, and do not comply with any external schedule.

[Buffett and Colbert]

In the Free Land of Natural Law for All, we have no publicly funded education. We prefer to allow market competition to drive ambition among our various schools. Having said that, this will not affect us, correct?

In your case, no it will not.

[Buffett and Colbert]

Yes I believe your comments are right. I don't see it on the WA page and I can't remember if I submitted it or not (I'm waiting for a person to tell me if i did or not). If I didn't, I'll add your suggestions for sure.

[Secruss]

*Prepared to vote against*

My Methodist kindergartens, Baptist nurseries, and Catholic highs will stay open.

[Tzorsland]

I am not sure many nations would like this resolution. I'm not sure I would like it ehither.

The first sign of trouble is "Allows ..." You see technically speaking anything not prohibited by the WA is technically allowed by all members of the WA, so all nations currently are allowed to have publicly funded schools with a "religious structure," not the same as a religious curriculum but the thought of having celibate women (and men) teach public schools for peanuts (just room and board and retirement benefits - as opposed to pay) might be something interesting.

Theocracies would not like this; especially since you snuck in the middle of this the right of a person to change their religion at a certain fixed age (fixed ages are a general no no because it assumes too many things). Plus if you are a X in a Y school you avoid Y religious classes. I know a couple of kids who once tried to pull that off, only they didn't do their due dilligence on the "X" part.

[Buffett and Colbert]

*Prepared to vote against*

My Methodist kindergartens, Baptist nurseries, and Catholic highs will stay open.

This proposal's aim is not to shut down faith based schools, Secruss. If there is a public education system already established, there will have to be an ample number of secular schools. So you can still have your Methodist kindergardtens, Baptists nurseries and Catholic highs (...).

[Buffett and Colbert]

Thanks Tzorsland. If I figure out whether I actually submitted it or not (see comments above) I'll remember your recomendations.

[Secruss]

No, I have a religious state. Not just education system. This is an unacceptable rule to holy, Lutheran people of the Confederacy of Secruss.

[Philimbesi]

::: sigh :::

I really wish the ambassadors in this body who had a bad time with religon would stop trying to apply that bad time to the rest of the world. While it's the case for some it is not that case for all. This is getting tedious.

As for this resolution, I would suggest that most of the non discrimination clauses are covered here .

All inhabitants of member states have the right not to be and indeed must not be discriminated against on grounds including sex, race, ethnicity, nationality, skin color, language, economic or cultural background, physical or mental disability or condition, religion or belief system, sexual orientation or sexual identity, or any other arbitrarily assigned and reductive categorisation which may be used for the purposes of discrimination, except for compelling practical purposes, such as hiring only female staff to work with battered women who have sought refuge from their abusers.

and

Unfair and unreasonable discrimination, on the grounds outlined in clause c) of article 1 of this resolution, in private employment, housing, education, employment benefits, compensations and access to services provided to the general public shall be prohibited by all member states.

Therefore if a school is receiving public funding it's not allowed to discriminate on the basis of a person's religion, or lack thereof.

I'm not totally sure but clause 4 may not just be a problem with theocracies, if I'm reading it correctly it may open the door to require nations with a separation of Church and State to fund non-secular schools as well. Which would be an issue for nations like mine who's non-secular schools are completely funded by tuition and donation and not public funding. It's against our constitution for public funding to go to any religious organization

Further it is certainly not the WA place to decide at what age a child is able to make a decision of this magnitude. All the nations in this body have differing opinions on the ages of majority.

We must admit to our colleagues that our debate in this topic will be limited. We are well over this tired-ass beaten dead horse.

[Mudkips]

The Mudkip's Republic cannot allow such a blatant infringement on national sovereignty to be passed. We cannot support this terrible resolution.

[Studly Penguins]

Well we have some thoughts on this matter, even though it is as was mentioned by another Ambassador a "Tired-ass beaten dead horse". Well here goes:

DECLARING that it is everyone’s, man, woman or child, inherent right to refuse to accept a religion or philosophical belief,

Why cant it read: "inherent right to refuse OR accept a religion or philosophical belief,

Next whats with the Age requirement?? Thats arbitrary and utterly useless.

Maybe I am using a too strict definition of the word Secular, but it seems this bill contradicts itself. You want say a Nation with 3 Religious schools to build 3 Secular schools, why still encourage Religious classes? Isnt that what the Religious school is for??

It seems that this bill is being written to try and cut down Religious schools in order to take as much Religious or Philosophy out of the cirriculum as possible, to ensure a more "proper" education.

We will not endorse any bill of this Nature as it is currently presented b/c its not right to dicate to nations what schools and education they must provide!!

[Cameroi]

shouldn't little furry creatures, with or without big sharp teeth, have the same rights as young and old of all genders? i'm not suggesting this is a serious omission, yet objectively it is far from entirely determinable as to whether it is or not.

at any rate the average cameroi child learns in our public schools engineering math, up to and through quadratics at least, by the time of graduation from (the nine years of) lower school (begining at age 3 and completing at age 12). along with such essentials as programing and cybernetic hardware design and construction. such knowledge is considered as basic as how to read blueprints, schematics and other forms of diagrams.

all without bias as to beliefs, spritual, 'economic' or 'idiological'

no child deserves less opportunity then our own either. nor does anyone of any age, reguardless of other circumstances.

thus in cameroi all education is completely open and completely free.

[Okinawakenshi]

The Parliament of Okinawakenshi is greatly concerned with the fact that allowing immature adolescences the will to select their own philosophical ideologies may be catastrophe. The Parliament is convinced beyond reasonable doubt, provided the people of the state follows the national curriculum and learns the 'Way of Okinawakenshi', our nation will live in prosperity and tranquility.

We do not need a Secular Schooling Act. Begone, Infidels!

Spokesperson for the Parliament of Okinawakenshi
"Abide and thou shall prosper"

[Hirota]

I'm a little rusty at this, so I do hope you'll forgive me if I say anything that is outdated.

I have just submitted upon getting the OK from a Mod a redo of the Secular Public Education Act. I believe this one does not contain an ideological ban and can reach quorum. This resolutions strives to give children the opportunity to obtain a secular education, as many only have the opportunity to be educated in faith based schools against their wishes.

For a start, we have to assume that a child actually has the power to consent to anything. It's quite common for children to be deemed incapable of making a decision themselves, and thus the parents decide. Your proposal might benefit from considering this.

I would like to hear what the NationStates community has to say about this proposal and a copy of the proposal can be found below.

The World Assembly,

REAFFIRMING the right to religious freedom, including the right to worship the god or gods of a person’s choice, if the person wishes to believe in any; the right to express any persons feelings about religion in a controlled and polite manner; and the right to refuse to attend, erect or demolish a religious establishment,

I'd rewrite to something like...REAFFIRMING the right to religious freedom, including the right to worship the god or gods of a person’s choice, if the person wishes to believe in any; the right to express any persons feelings about religion in a controlled and polite lawful manner; and the right to refuse to attend, erect or demolish a religious establishment,

NOTING religion can play an important role in one's life, to guide one’s self and offer peace of mind,

STATING because of this one should always have the choice to his or her religion or philosophical beliefs,

Yup.

DECLARING that it is everyone’s, man, woman or child, inherent right to refuse to accept a religion or philosophical belief,

See my earlier thoughts on if a child can be deemed capable of choosing their own beliefs.

1.Allows publicly funded schools to have a religious structure but these schools must:

a.Not punish any child in any way for not believing in what the school teaches about religion or philosophical ideas
i.The child may be reprimanded in a way approved by the NationState’s laws and international laws if the child behaves in a rude manner that disrespects and defames any religion but does allow the child to politely and in a civil manner discuss these religious ideas and philosophies with a classmate or faculty member,

2.Grants the right to the child of twelve years of age or older to decide for him or herself to decide which religion or philosophical idea he or she will believe in and adhere to and grants the child the liberty of contacting the authorities, an organization or single person if he or she thinks this right is being breached,

Now you've set an age here, which might not be endorsed by the assembly as a whole. Why is a 12 year old more capable than an 11 year old? Is a 12 year old actually capable of making such a decision?

3.Mandates all World Assembly member governments with any style of government, including theocratical ones, to provide the funds to establish public schools that are secular in structure and these schools must:

a.Be given equal funding as faith based schools are given
b.Not be discriminated against in any way, form or fashion by the government and the government must strive to keep discrimination against these schools and those who attend them as low as possible
c.Allow members of any religion to attend the school
d.Not punish any child in any way for believing or not believing in a certain religion or philosophical idea and must not punish any child for discussing a relgious or philosophical idea if it is being discussed in a polite and civil manner

I'm pretty certain there is a more straightforward way of implementing what you are trying to do here.

Something like...."Mandates the compulsory establishment by member states of secular public schools without discrimination regarding funding or resources" etc etc etc

4.Further mandates all World Assembly members governments to allow the establishment of non secular and secular schools but these schools must abide by the same laws as the publicly funded ones,

5.Again reminds that this resolution does not inhibit one’s right to or not to practice any religion or believe in any philosophical idea whatsoever.

Yup.

If I get the time (and if you are happy for me to do so), I can probably scribble down some further ideas for you to consider. Like I said, I'm rusty (not really wrote a proposal since 2007), but as my government is secularist in nature, we have some interest in this field.

[The Babbage Islands]

3.Mandates all World Assembly member governments with any style of government, including theocratical ones, to provide the funds to establish public schools that are secular in structure and these schools must:

a.Be given equal funding as faith based schools are given
b.Not be discriminated against in any way, form or fashion by the government and the government must strive to keep discrimination against these schools and those who attend them as low as possible
c.Allow members of any religion to attend the school
d.Not punish any child in any way for believing or not believing in a certain religion or philosophical idea and must not punish any child for discussing a relgious or philosophical idea if it is being discussed in a polite and civil manner

We have no public schools; we need no public schools. (Plenty of education, just no government schools.) There is no clause in the resolution whatsoever that offers one shred of real justification for this misbegotten, proposed imposition.

[Quintessence of Dust]

When a proposal's been dead for 10 days it's generally considered impolite/pointless to gravedig it. With forum activity this high, proposal threads have quite a short shelflife.

[Maerngau]

Well we have some thoughts on this matter, even though it is as was mentioned by another Ambassador a "Tired-ass beaten dead horse". Well here goes:

DECLARING that it is everyone’s, man, woman or child, inherent right to refuse to accept a religion or philosophical belief,

Why cant it read: "inherent right to refuse OR accept a religion or philosophical belief,

Next whats with the Age requirement?? Thats arbitrary and utterly useless.

Maybe I am using a too strict definition of the word Secular, but it seems this bill contradicts itself. You want say a Nation with 3 Religious schools to build 3 Secular schools, why still encourage Religious classes? Isnt that what the Religious school is for??

It seems that this bill is being written to try and cut down Religious schools in order to take as much Religious or Philosophy out of the cirriculum as possible, to ensure a more "proper" education.

We will not endorse any bill of this Nature as it is currently presented b/c its not right to dicate to nations what schools and education they must provide!!

Although we are all in favor of promoting secular humanist ideals, we believe that this proposal and all similar proposals overreach the proper role of the WA. We cannot support this proposal.

[The Babbage Islands]

When a proposal's been dead for 10 days it's generally considered impolite/pointless to gravedig it. With forum activity this high, proposal threads have quite a short shelflife.

With forum activity in the area of education proposals rather high at present (check the number of related threads out there), it seems logical to be looking at everything relatively recent which is related to the theme.