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(SUBMITTED) Defense of Life Act

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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When should elective abortion be legal? (excluding rape, incest, fetal defects, etc.)

Never
90
31%
1st trimester
32
11%
1st & 2nd trimesters
28
10%
Always
136
48%
 
Total votes : 286

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Nulono
Senator
 
Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:00 pm

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:I pretty much already can predict the outcome of this debate . . .

Multiple proposals reach quorum; the first proposal that reaches quorum passes; this invalidates each of the other six proposals; everyone leaves angry, including many of those who voted for the original proposal to reach quorum because they didn't know that something better was coming

-OR-

Every proposal fails because member states are waiting to vote on another proposal that will come up later even though most of these proposals probably have majority support


If the other six nations want to withdraw their proposals, then I'll withdraw this proposal . . . in moderation, all seven of us can make a joint request to have our proposals withdrawn . . . REASON: Maybe it would be best to construct a compromise proposal that combines the existing proposals . . . I know that there shouldn't be any more than two authors for a proposal, but maybe moderation would make an exception and allow an abortion proposal with seven authors.

I'll wait for others to reply, honoured ambassador, but I am not quite convinced because previously you kept insisting in introducing restrictions against abortion against progressive member states where the popular opinion is "leave it alone", until I found out why abortion should be legal for cases of rape et. al.

Come again?
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent

The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.

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Mousebumples
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mousebumples » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:34 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:If the other six nations want to withdraw their proposals, then I'll withdraw this proposal . . . in moderation, all seven of us can make a joint request to have our proposals withdrawn . . . REASON: Maybe it would be best to construct a compromise proposal that combines the existing proposals . . . I know that there shouldn't be any more than two authors for a proposal, but maybe moderation would make an exception and allow an abortion proposal with seven authors.

Considering that there are AT LEAST 3 different contrary perspectives, I don't believe there's any viable "compromise" to be had amongst all of the proposals in the submission queue.
Leader of the Mouse-a-rific Mousetastic Moderator Mousedom of Mousebumples
Past WA Delegate for Europeia & Monkey Island
Proud Member of UNOG
I'm an "adorably marvelous NatSov" - Mallorea and Riva
GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | Why Repeal? | Reppy's Sig Workshop

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The Floridian Coast
Minister
 
Posts: 2979
Founded: Sep 09, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Floridian Coast » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:27 pm

The Floridian Coast opposes granting abortion rights based on a lack of viability. We recognize that as science advances, viability will be possible sooner and sooner, but that should not inhibit the right of women to elective abortion.
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Politics: Democratic Socialism, New Left, Progressivism
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Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
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Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:33 pm

The Floridian Coast wrote:The Floridian Coast opposes granting abortion rights based on a lack of viability. We recognize that as science advances, viability will be possible sooner and sooner, but that should not inhibit the right of women to elective abortion.

Why not just induce labor if a woman wants to stop being pregnant?
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Cartavesqa
Minister
 
Posts: 2284
Founded: Dec 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Cartavesqa » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:49 pm

I'm sorry, which of the 12 different abortion proposals is this?
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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35674
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:09 pm

Cartavesqa wrote:I'm sorry, which of the 12 different abortion proposals is this?


The one that almost outright bans it. I would endorse Charlotte Ryberg's "On Abortion" myself.
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FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
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THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

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Christian Democrats
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Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:14 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Cartavesqa wrote:I'm sorry, which of the 12 different abortion proposals is this?


The one that almost outright bans it. I would endorse Charlotte Ryberg's "On Abortion" myself.

How can a proposal that would restrict, not ban, abortions after about the 30th week of pregnancy be almost an outright ban?
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Philimbesi
Minister
 
Posts: 2347
Founded: Jun 07, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Philimbesi » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:29 am

As we have said before our doctors are more than capable of determining the age of viability on their own and do not require the assistance of WA Gnomes, further our women are more than capable of deciding what they wish to do with their pregnancy.
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The Honorable Josiah Bartlet - President

Ideological Bulwark #236

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Mousebumples
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Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mousebumples » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:52 am

Philimbesi wrote:As we have said before our doctors are more than capable of determining the age of viability on their own and do not require the assistance of WA Gnomes, further our women are more than capable of deciding what they wish to do with their pregnancy.

And their bodies, my fellow ambassador. Or, at least, my nation's women are more than capable of making decisions regarding their own bodies.
Leader of the Mouse-a-rific Mousetastic Moderator Mousedom of Mousebumples
Past WA Delegate for Europeia & Monkey Island
Proud Member of UNOG
I'm an "adorably marvelous NatSov" - Mallorea and Riva
GA Resolutions (sorted by category) | Why Repeal? | Reppy's Sig Workshop

User avatar
Philimbesi
Minister
 
Posts: 2347
Founded: Jun 07, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby Philimbesi » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:55 am

And their bodies, my fellow ambassador. Or, at least, my nation's women are more than capable of making decisions regarding their own bodies.


Nigel tipped his imaginary hat at the ambassador from Mousebumples . "Preciesly my friend, precisely. "
The Unified Districts Of Philimbesi
The Honorable Josiah Bartlet - President

Ideological Bulwark #236

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35674
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:16 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
The one that almost outright bans it. I would endorse Charlotte Ryberg's "On Abortion" myself.

How can a proposal that would restrict, not ban, abortions after about the 30th week of pregnancy be almost an outright ban?


Because only your resolution restricts the time frame of the procedure in any way, and honestly is the only attempt made to effectively "ban" it, hence why I said the resolution "almost" bans it.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
Economic Report | Regional Forum | Political Compass
CAPINTERN | OMSA | OZZY | PACT | APAC
Summary | Vanguard | The Book Of Sue
THE BILLION BIT BRONY
AHAHAHAHA PONY PONY PONY PONYYY


LOVEWHOYOUARE~


User avatar
Intellect and the Arts
Diplomat
 
Posts: 530
Founded: Sep 20, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Intellect and the Arts » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:10 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
The Floridian Coast wrote:The Floridian Coast opposes granting abortion rights based on a lack of viability. We recognize that as science advances, viability will be possible sooner and sooner, but that should not inhibit the right of women to elective abortion.

Why not just induce labor if a woman wants to stop being pregnant?

Wait, what time limit would you impose on this? I ask because if they do it before a certain period, it's technically a medical miscarriage.
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Nulono
Senator
 
Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:20 pm

Intellect and the Arts wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:Why not just induce labor if a woman wants to stop being pregnant?

Wait, what time limit would you impose on this? I ask because if they do it before a certain period, it's technically a medical miscarriage.

The time limit would depend on the available medical technology.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent

The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.

User avatar
Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10012
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:54 pm

Abortion Proposals:

Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)
GA#468: Prohibit Private Prisons (57%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

User avatar
Rawrgirnia
Attaché
 
Posts: 72
Founded: Aug 21, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Rawrgirnia » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:34 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:Abortion Proposals:



Is there a reason you keep posting these lists? They do not contribute to anything..

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Nulono
Senator
 
Posts: 3805
Founded: Jun 09, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Nulono » Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:47 pm

The Cat-Tribe wrote:Furthermore, AT BEST, ONLY ONE of your proceeding statements relate to one of FIVE necessary and sufficient conditions embedded in the commonsense notion of personhood:
  • being conscious, e.g. aware of one's surroundings.
  • being conscious of itself, i.e. being able to think of oneself as oneself at least at a rudimentary level.
  • being able to reason and know, e.g. plan, understand at least at a rudimentary level.
  • being a sentient being, e.g. feel pain/pleasure.
  • being able to have emotions

Who says those are the criteria for personhood? Human newborns fail test number three.

5 Again, this either makes no sense or involves a strange morality. You declare fetuses "at or before 24 weeks" to be persons, but then say they may be killed if they are severely defective or abnormal. Would this standard apply to born children? To adults? Can we kill those we think are defective or abnormal?

I agree; that is a barbaric clause.
Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.38
Numbers written with an apostrophe are in dozenal unless otherwise noted.
For example, 0'3 = 0.25, and 100' = 144.

Ratios are measured in perunums instead of percent.
1 perunum = 100 percent = 84' percent

The Nuclear Fist wrote:If all it it takes to count as a five star hotel in America is having air conditioning and not letting those who reside in it die of hyperthermia, you have shitty hotels.

Republika Jugoslavija wrote:Actually nuclear war is not the world ending scenario that many would have folks believe.

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