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(SUBMITTED) Defense of Life Act

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When should elective abortion be legal? (excluding rape, incest, fetal defects, etc.)

Never
90
31%
1st trimester
32
11%
1st & 2nd trimesters
28
10%
Always
136
48%
 
Total votes : 286

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Sionis Prioratus
Senator
 
Posts: 3537
Founded: Feb 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:32 pm

Is our entire diplomatic staff on crack, or "Reduction of Abortion" has already dealt with this issue?

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Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
A simple truth

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Kryozerkia
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 11096
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Kryozerkia » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:36 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:
Cinistra wrote:"Not on NS"??? :rofl:
Are you serious? If you really want this resolution to get off the ground, you should end such nonsense.

I ran into this non-human junk on my last proposal, and the mods acknowledged that there are "non-human" nations ( :palm: ) on the game.

Indeed there are, ambassador. The Lady is most displeased with you at this time. Especially with your evident contempt and overt prejudice toward non-human populations.

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Kulaloe
Diplomat
 
Posts: 570
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kulaloe » Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:41 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:
Charlotte Ryberg wrote:Ms. Harper does not consider the outright restriction of abortion to be an international issue. Also,

That is a bit like "non-human species can ignore this resolution", which might not satisfy WA proposal rules.

That's one of my worries, but a lot of resolutions are like that.

E.g., "Female Genital Mutilation" couldn't apply to a nation of hermaphrodites. Or could it?

That's what I thought too, but figured it didn't matter too much. My nation already has stricter abortion laws than what this resolution calls for, but we cannot support it because it only applies to one third of our population. Our constitution states that no law may exist in Kulaloe that treats any sentient race differently than others. We define a sentient race as a biological species with a median IQ over 85. The humans in our nation have spent the last century earning equal rights - our current Grandnarfolio being the first human to be elected to the position. The Keinash majority might not react well to some humans crying "the rats are trying to kill our babies!" (Keinash evolved from rodents.) You need to change it so that it applies to all sentient races. I suggest wording it so that it bans the last third of pregnancy. It will make you more likely to get this passed.
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Embolalia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1670
Founded: Apr 03, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Embolalia » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:00 pm

Oh, just let it go already! You're never going to win this fight. What part of "no" don't you get? The 'n' or the 'o'?
Christian Democrats wrote:I ran into this non-human junk on my last proposal, and the mods acknowledged that there are "non-human" nations ( :palm: ) on the game.
I think, in lieu of the more traditional defenestration, we should have this ambassador mauled, perhaps by the ambassador from Bears Armed. Yes, there are non-human nations here. Get over it.
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Cartavesqa
Minister
 
Posts: 2284
Founded: Dec 10, 2010
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Postby Cartavesqa » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:27 pm

Shouldn't it be decided during the 23rd week because in the 24th week you are arguing that they are alive?
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Unibot
Senator
 
Posts: 4292
Founded: May 25, 2008
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Postby Unibot » Fri Dec 17, 2010 5:32 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:Is our entire diplomatic staff on crack, or "Reduction of Abortion" has already dealt with this issue?

Yours in entheogenic experiences,


No, not actually. It dealt with the proliferation of Sex Education which oftentimes reduces abortion. The last clause of the resolution clarifies that the resolution is in no way banning or legalizing abortion, and leaves it open to future debate.

REQUIRES member states to recognize a fetus' personhood before or during the 24th week of pregnancy,


If the unborn baby has personhood, and kills the mother whilst in labor... is the unborn baby liable for manslaughter?

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Sionis Prioratus
Senator
 
Posts: 3537
Founded: Feb 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:05 pm

If personhood is given to fetuses, that coupled with # 58 (Right to Privacy)...

2. ESTABLISHES that there are several different types of privacy, including:
(A) Physical Privacy: the right to prevent intrusions into ones property and personal articles
(B) Informational Privacy: the right to withhold information about oneself, including a persons race, sex, religious and sexual orientation, etc.
(C) Organizational Privacy: the right of governments or other organizations to withhold information regarding their activities and dealings in relation to other organizations and individuals


...bans ultrasound scans.

My salts!
Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
A simple truth

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Eireann Fae WA Mission
Envoy
 
Posts: 329
Founded: Nov 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Eireann Fae WA Mission » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:08 pm

After she finishes chuckling at the Unibotan Ambassador's final question, Alexandra rises to address the Christian Democrat (again). "As Lady Ellismere has already stated, the vast majority of our population would not be affected by your resolution. Faeries 'gestate' for only six weeks, in an extracorpus floral incubator. Because of the nature of the phenomenon, even Spirit Faeries that can see spirits cannot discern the spirit energy left behind by the mating Faeries from the spirit energy of the fully-developed young. And then, of course, there are single-celled organisms that do the whole cellular mitosis thing, and avian egg-laying and sapient sprouts sowing or scattering seeds. You do not live in an anthrocentric multiverse, Ambassador. Deal with it."

As she starts to sit down, Alexandra remembers she has a yet-unanswered question from the previous debate, and rises again to her full height. "Also, I don't believe you ever answered my question. If a careless or malicious being destroyed an active Faerie Flower, would that be criminal homicide, or merely an unauthorized abortion?"
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Linux and the X
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5471
Founded: Apr 29, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Linux and the X » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:17 pm

My office has seen a loophole in this resolution, and shall reveal it to the other members of this body in the unlikely event that this passes.
If you see I've made a mistake in my wording or a factual detail, telegram me and I'll fix it. I'll even give you credit for pointing it out, if you'd like.
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Kulaloe
Diplomat
 
Posts: 570
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kulaloe » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:41 pm

Linux and the X wrote:My office has seen a loophole in this resolution, and shall reveal it to the other members of this body in the unlikely event that this passes.

Eggs? Or humans that aren't taxinomically considered homo sapiens by their governments? Those are the most obvious to me.
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Kulaloe
Diplomat
 
Posts: 570
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kulaloe » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:45 pm

Sionis Prioratus wrote:If personhood is given to fetuses, that coupled with # 58 (Right to Privacy)...

2. ESTABLISHES that there are several different types of privacy, including:
(A) Physical Privacy: the right to prevent intrusions into ones property and personal articles
(B) Informational Privacy: the right to withhold information about oneself, including a persons race, sex, religious and sexual orientation, etc.
(C) Organizational Privacy: the right of governments or other organizations to withhold information regarding their activities and dealings in relation to other organizations and individuals


...bans ultrasound scans.

My salts!

:shock: Not to mention the fact that the doctor would be peeping in on a naked person.
It's pronounced koo-LAH-loy
My currency works like the yen, please do not think my storefront prices are extortionate.
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Remember kids: It's only fun 'til YOU lose an eye!

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Darenjo
Minister
 
Posts: 2178
Founded: Mar 31, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Darenjo » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:48 pm

Cinistra wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:I ran into this non-human junk on my last proposal, and the mods acknowledged that there are "non-human" nations ( :palm: ) on the game.

Well, if so...can't you just restrict the resolution to fit humans? How many such non-human nations could it possibly be?


Well, Eireann Fae and Bears Armed are a couple of the more prominent non-human nations in the WA. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were over ten thousand non-human nations (not including human nations with minority non-human populations). Even a mod is a non-human nation, which you would find out if you scrolled through all the comments.

@Sionis: well, since the fetus hasn't explicitly told us NOT to look in and use ultrasounds, we'll just keep using them. That, and, doctors look at naked people all the time during check-ups, physicals, etc.
Last edited by Darenjo on Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Darenjo
Minister
 
Posts: 2178
Founded: Mar 31, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Darenjo » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:52 pm

Oh, and by the way, following review of the proposal by the Darenjon Senatorial WA Committee, the committee has directed that Darenjo NOT support the proposal, due to its blatant ignorance of the many non-human species that have representative in the World Assembly.
Dr. Park Si-Jung, Ambassador to the World Assembly for The People's Democracy of Darenjo

Proud Member of Eastern Islands of Dharma!

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Sionis Prioratus
Senator
 
Posts: 3537
Founded: Feb 07, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Sionis Prioratus » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:58 pm

Darenjo wrote:@Sionis: well, since the fetus hasn't explicitly told us NOT to look in and use ultrasounds, we'll just keep using them.


Isn't Your Excellency ashamed to admit to abusing the privacy of persons incapable of giving consent? That is a most vile form of voyeurism!


Darenjo wrote:That, and, doctors look at naked people all the time during check-ups, physicals, etc.


OOC: Well, I know that, since I'm a doctor myself! 8)
Cathérine Victoire de Saint-Clair
Haute Ambassadrice for the WA for
✡ The Jewish Kingdom of Sionis Prioratus
Daughter of The Late King Adrian the First
In the Name of
Sa Majesté Impériale Dagobert VI de Saint-Clair
A simple truth

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Kulaloe
Diplomat
 
Posts: 570
Founded: Mar 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Kulaloe » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:59 pm

Darenjo wrote:Oh, and by the way, following review of the proposal by the Darenjon Senatorial WA Committee, the committee has directed that Darenjo NOT support the proposal, due to its blatant ignorance of the many non-human species that have representative in the World Assembly.

I, a human representing a mostly non-human nation, have also been directed by the Council of Narfolios to not support this resolution as it stands. We will gladly support it if it is re-worded to apply to non-humans in a species equivalent manner.
Last edited by Kulaloe on Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's pronounced koo-LAH-loy
My currency works like the yen, please do not think my storefront prices are extortionate.
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Christian Democrats
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Posts: 10012
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
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Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:17 pm

Kulaloe wrote:
Darenjo wrote:Oh, and by the way, following review of the proposal by the Darenjon Senatorial WA Committee, the committee has directed that Darenjo NOT support the proposal, due to its blatant ignorance of the many non-human species that have representative in the World Assembly.

I, a human representing a mostly non-human nation, have also been directed by the Council of Narfolios to not support this resolution as it stands. We will gladly support it if it is re-worded to apply to non-humans in a species equivalent manner.

How?

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Christian Democrats
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Posts: 10012
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
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Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:19 pm

Unibot wrote:
Sionis Prioratus wrote:Is our entire diplomatic staff on crack, or "Reduction of Abortion" has already dealt with this issue?

Yours in entheogenic experiences,


No, not actually. It dealt with the proliferation of Sex Education which oftentimes reduces abortion. The last clause of the resolution clarifies that the resolution is in no way banning or legalizing abortion, and leaves it open to future debate.

REQUIRES member states to recognize a fetus' personhood before or during the 24th week of pregnancy,


If the unborn baby has personhood, and kills the mother whilst in labor... is the unborn baby liable for manslaughter?

Because it's unintentional, the baby wouldn't be criminally liable in my nation. I can't say for others.

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Christian Democrats
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Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:21 pm

Linux and the X wrote:My office has seen a loophole in this resolution, and shall reveal it to the other members of this body in the unlikely event that this passes.

You want to use the "physical health" exception or the exception for fetal abnormalities; don't you?

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Ryouese Black Islands
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1754
Founded: Nov 01, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Ryouese Black Islands » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:29 pm

We will refuse to recongize this and will refuse to surport it. If it does Come to vote it will be a Strong NO vote on it, even if this is passed we will Reject it and refuse to Fallow it

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Vitaphone Racing
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Founded: Aug 25, 2009
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Postby Vitaphone Racing » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:49 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:
Unibot wrote:If the unborn baby has personhood, and kills the mother whilst in labor... is the unborn baby liable for manslaughter?

Because it's unintentional, the baby wouldn't be criminally liable in my nation. I can't say for others.


I suggest you re-read criminal law. Manslaughter IS unintentional.
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Just Guy
Envoy
 
Posts: 309
Founded: Sep 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Just Guy » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:58 pm

Eireann Fae WA Mission wrote:After she finishes chuckling at the Unibotan Ambassador's final question, Alexandra rises to address the Christian Democrat (again). "As Lady Ellismere has already stated, the vast majority of our population would not be affected by your resolution. Faeries 'gestate' for only six weeks, in an extracorpus floral incubator. Because of the nature of the phenomenon, even Spirit Faeries that can see spirits cannot discern the spirit energy left behind by the mating Faeries from the spirit energy of the fully-developed young. And then, of course, there are single-celled organisms that do the whole cellular mitosis thing, and avian egg-laying and sapient sprouts sowing or scattering seeds. You do not live in an anthrocentric multiverse, Ambassador. Deal with it."



May I remind you that this body has passed numerous highly popular resolutions that only apply to humans. Not all proposals can apply to your species, ambassador.
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Linux and the X
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5471
Founded: Apr 29, 2006
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Linux and the X » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:05 pm

Christian Democrats wrote:
Linux and the X wrote:My office has seen a loophole in this resolution, and shall reveal it to the other members of this body in the unlikely event that this passes.

You want to use the "physical health" exception or the exception for fetal abnormalities; don't you?

Well if I told you, you would likely attempt to close it.
If you see I've made a mistake in my wording or a factual detail, telegram me and I'll fix it. I'll even give you credit for pointing it out, if you'd like.
BLUE LIVES MURDER

[violet]: Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
Me, responding to a request to vote for a liberation: But... but that would blemish my near-perfect history of spitefully voting against anything the SC does!
Farnhamia: That is not to be taken as license to start calling people "buttmunch."

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Christian Democrats
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Founded: Jul 29, 2009
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Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:06 pm

Vitaphone Racing wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:Because it's unintentional, the baby wouldn't be criminally liable in my nation. I can't say for others.


I suggest you re-read criminal law. Manslaughter IS unintentional.

Then why is there such thing as VOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER?

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Christian Democrats
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Posts: 10012
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:07 pm

Linux and the X wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:You want to use the "physical health" exception or the exception for fetal abnormalities; don't you?

Well if I told you, you would likely attempt to close it.

I don't believe the proposal would be viable without the maternal health exception.

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Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10012
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:15 pm

Under most legal codes, a person can be convicted of involuntary manslaughter only if that person was being criminally negligent (e.g., vehicular manslaughter for killing someone while driving drunk).

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