The Second Mine Convention (SUBMITTED)

[Ampera]

I find myself in support of the HRC's position. The removal of Anti-Tank mines would leave my country vunurable to attack by agressive armor. Ensuring accurate policing and mapping of defensive mine emplacements is the maximum the United Kingdom of Ampera would be willing to support.

A resolution requring tracking devices to be fitted to anti-tank mines which may be activated on receipt of the correct encoded signal would be a resonable compromise in my opinion. That way, when hostilities cease, tracking devices can allow mine disposal teams to pinpoint their exact location for disarmament.

Without anti-tank mines, nations which do not adhere to WA rules and proceedures would have a marked millitary advantage in times of war.

Your desire to end the use of such weapons is admirable but the existance of non aligned aggressive nations makes your suggestion unpractical.

[Syvorji]

This is not a stepping stone to peace. Be honest, this is the stepping stone you intend to use for disarmament of all WA nations. Peace is not achieved through laying down your weapons while other nations do not. Peace in my eyes is not turning each WA nation into an inviting target. First it's mines, then you'll move on to guided weapons, and your finale will be a nuclear weapons ban I'm guessing. A wise man is always prepared not for the last fight, but for the fight as yet unseen. Demanding WA nations engage in warfare with their hands tied behind their back does not qualify you as a wise man. You've done nothing here but say "this is for peace" while throwing in a dash of numbers you produced to back up your stance. The "cause I say so" style of diplomacy doesn't sit well with the HRC. Again, if you feel this strongly about the matter then ban them within your nation, and put forward legislation requiring immediate clean up of anti-tank mines used in combat upon the termination of hostilities.

It is not just a national issue, HRC. It is an international one, since anti-tank mines are used in wars, and that it could pose threats. Next, I am not doing the "cause I say so" style of diplomacy, it is for legitimate reasons. Next, I am not doing the latter two, I am only completing what Resolution #40 of the GA started. And by peace, global disarmament is a way of peace. In fact, I am preparing myself for the fight unseen, politics. Now, argue all you want, but think of the children! As such, we support the resolution.

I find myself in support of the HRC's position. The removal of Anti-Tank mines would leave my country vunurable to attack by agressive armor. Ensuring accurate policing and mapping of defensive mine emplacements is the maximum the United Kingdom of Ampera would be willing to support.

A resolution requring tracking devices to be fitted to anti-tank mines which may be activated on receipt of the correct encoded signal would be a resonable compromise in my opinion. That way, when hostilities cease, tracking devices can allow mine disposal teams to pinpoint their exact location for disarmament.

Without anti-tank mines, nations which do not adhere to WA rules and proceedures would have a marked millitary advantage in times of war.

Your desire to end the use of such weapons is admirable but the existance of non aligned aggressive nations makes your suggestion unpractical.

The problem is, government officials can manipulate them, to make it look like as it were placed elsewhere, and in fact, they may get an advantage, but global disarmament in the WA shall equal peace.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

And the truth behind this comes out. Global disarmament is a pipe dream. That would leave WA nations without any defense to the threat a non WA nation could pose. Either you are naive or you are a puppet pushing this agenda with sinister ends in mind. Disarmament does not equal peace, it equals turning each nations population into a group being held hostage to your ideals. We will never allow you to put at risk untold billions of lives so you can feel good about yourself.

[Syvorji]

And the truth behind this comes out. Global disarmament is a pipe dream. That would leave WA nations without any defense to the threat a non WA nation could pose. Either you are naive or you are a puppet pushing this agenda with sinister ends in mind. Disarmament does not equal peace, it equals turning each nations population into a group being held hostage to your ideals. We will never allow you to put at risk untold billions of lives so you can feel good about yourself.

I am neither, rather, I am someone who wants mines to end. I hated them, like war, because mines is a byproduct of war. As well, I am opposed to the use of mines because it is a hazard to vehicles, people, pets and so on and so forth. That said, mine disposal and world peace should be a priority, and global disarmament is another part of peace, besides treaties.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

Anti tank mines are a tool to safeguard against wholesale invasion by large armored forces. They are designed to protect your population from invasion. Global disarmament is not a part of peace, in fact it makes war far more likely. All you seek to do is bring about disarmament to WA nations. Disarming every nation both WA and non WA is impossible, yet you continue to pursue this agenda. You are attempting to drag all WA nations down a path to ruin in the name of a principle you can never achieve through this legislative body. Not surprisingly you care little about the nations and populations you are willing to endanger with your naive views.

[Syvorji]

Anti tank mines are a tool to safeguard against wholesale invasion by large armored forces. They are designed to protect your population from invasion. Global disarmament is not a part of peace, in fact it makes war far more likely. All you seek to do is bring about disarmament to WA nations. Disarming every nation both WA and non WA is impossible, yet you continue to pursue this agenda. You are attempting to drag all WA nations down a path to ruin in the name of a principle you can never achieve through this legislative body. Not surprisingly you care little about the nations and populations you are willing to endanger with your naive views.

My views are not naive, I care for people, I even know a man who used to remove mines until when he was removing anti-tank mines in a nation, an anti-personnel mine detonated, injuring him, and he lost a leg, and he now has an artificial leg, and wants mines to be banned, so it could be done with. Next, it is for WA nations only, not both WA and non-WA. Besides, I am not going to drag the WA down a path of... ...argh, Let go of my throat!

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

I'm very aware this only pertains to WA nations while having no power over non WA nations. That is a major part of the problem. You seek to disarm WA nations leaving us defenseless against rogue non WA affiliated nations. The story about the man injured by a mine is touching, but were legislation passed requiring the military whom deploys mines to track them and recover them he never would have been injured. By requiring tracking and clean up you solve solve the matter of innocents being hurt by unrecovered ordinance while at the same time allowing WA nations the ability to retain defensive ability.

[Syvorji]

I'm very aware this only pertains to WA nations while having no power over non WA nations. That is a major part of the problem. You seek to disarm WA nations leaving us defenseless against rogue non WA affiliated nations. The story about the man injured by a mine is touching, but were legislation passed requiring the military whom deploys mines to track them and recover them he never would have been injured. By requiring tracking and clean up you solve solve the matter of innocents being hurt by unrecovered ordinance while at the same time allowing WA nations the ability to retain defensive ability.

Actually, he blamed it on the enemy, and that if it were tracked, it can very easily be manipulated. Besides, there are rockets, tanks, nukes, soldiers, cruise missiles and all that crap, and we don't need any more landmines. The technology gets cheaper over time, and at this point, landmines are so useless, so let us move on from the landmine crap.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

They are not useless, take it from a former soldier. Showing that you refuse to relent and compromise proves that this entire process is for selfish gain. An anti-tank mine is used to disable an enemy tank without putting your troops at risk. So you are saying you would rather pay the price with your citizen soldiers blood rather than compromise?

[Syvorji]

They are not useless, take it from a former soldier. Showing that you refuse to relent and compromise proves that this entire process is for selfish gain. An anti-tank mine is used to disable an enemy tank without putting your troops at risk. So you are saying you would rather pay the price with your citizen soldiers blood rather than compromise?

They were useful in the early part of the 20th century but it is now useless nowadays. Anyways, I will make a few changes.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

You are very mistaken in their lack of use on the modern battlefield. The HRC welcomes changes and we eagerly await said changes and the opportunity to provide our input.

[Syvorji]

You are very mistaken in their lack of use on the modern battlefield. The HRC welcomes changes and we eagerly await said changes and the opportunity to provide our input.

And here they are!

Category: Global Disarmament - Strength: Significant

The World Assembly,

DEFINES for the purposes of the resolution,
- mines' as explosive devices designed to damage and/or destroy tanks and armored fighting vehicles
- 'mined area' as an area in which one or more live mines has been deployed,
- 'dispose' to be the act of destroying, permanently deactivating, or otherwise rendering non-functional, such as through conversion to command detonation of mines;

UNDERSTANDING there are two types of landmines, anti-personnel and anti-tank mines that currently exist;

BELIEVING that Anti-Tank landmines also pose a threat to civilians, as well as troops and vehicles;

HEREBY REQUIRES the members of the World Assembly to,

- Dispose all mines, regardless of being anti-personnel and/or anti-tank
- Immediately cease and desist the production of mines
- Seize all stocks of mines to be used for purposes of combat

EXEMPTS from those obligations;

- the transfer of landmines for the purpose of disposal, or for the research and development of mine clearance or mine safety, providing such transfers are limited to absolute necessity,
- the production, possession and deployment of limited numbers of landmines for the purposes of research and development mine clearance or mine safety, provided such actions are conducted within secure areas and with the highest regard for safety,
- the rendering of technical assistance aimed solely at reducing the danger of landmines to non-military personnel, such as through conversion to command-detonation;
- for training purposes in the military, in case if they ever have to fight in a non-WA nation
- at international borders, provided they were tagged

CREATES the World Assembly Clearance of Anti-Tank Mines Agency (WACATMA), to operate alongside with the World Assembly Demining Agency (WADA), with a charter to:

- aware people of the existence anti-tank mines
- conduct clearance of anti-tank mines
- to help rescue people from any vehicle that were damaged and/or destroyed by anti-tank mines
- to promote safety from anti-tank mines
- to tag the anti-tank mines if used at international borders

The WACATMA must respect the sovereignty of nations, stipulating that:

- member nations of the World Assembly may request to clear anti-tank mines
- requesting they must provide complete and full information on the mined area, including which year it was laid
- storage and disposal of removed landmines and fragments is the responsibility of nations requesting assistance by the WACATMA and that it has all rights to refuse involvement if the WACATMA and/or the WADA deems the requesting nation incompetent for such tasks.

Voting ends: 3 days, 18 hours

Made an extra exemption, and another part of the charter, for use at international borders.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

This still calls for the end of production and the seizure of all stocks. This does nothing to alter the original intent of the proposal. The changes made were merely lip service. None of our concerns were answered.

[Syvorji]

This still calls for the end of production and the seizure of all stocks. This does nothing to alter the original intent of the proposal. The changes made were merely lip service. None of our concerns were answered.

They were not lip service. They are actual changes. It is just that you use existing stocks, that's all. Besides, isn't your WA ambassador lip service?

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

Lip service is stating you will make changes and then making none that actually alter what you originally set out to do. Existing stocks age, and as explosives age they become unstable. In time these stocks would be unusable and your proposal as currently written would prevent production of replacement stocks. That is nothing more than an end run around the argument against your proposal. Mandating tracking and recovery of mines deployed would be the only way we will support this measure, but that would require a total rewrite. Barring that we will continue to not support this measure, and rally against it.

[Syvorji]

Lip service is stating you will make changes and then making none that actually alter what you originally set out to do. Existing stocks age, and as explosives age they become unstable. In time these stocks would be unusable and your proposal as currently written would prevent production of replacement stocks. That is nothing more than an end run around the argument against your proposal. Mandating tracking and recovery of mines deployed would be the only way we will support this measure, but that would require a total rewrite. Barring that we will continue to not support this measure, and rally against it.

Once they become unusable, everyone will know that peace is the way to go, and will stop using mines. And feel free to draft a repeal once it gets into the queue.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

This is not compromise, this is your way of forcing your views. Instead of drafting a repeal I will simply point out over and over again the agenda you have at work. You have my word that this will never garner the votes to pass into law. You attempted dishonest compromise. That is less than honorable and casts you in the light of someone who cannot be trusted. Manipulation will get you nowhere in this disagreement. Attempting to open the nations of the WA to harm with your agenda in certain circles could be used as a justification for war.

[Ampera]

I propose a change to permit national millitary forces to produce Anti-Tank mines soley to replace stocks used and then detonated, either in a controlled maner or in the defence of said nation. This would cap the number of mines to those currently required for national defence.

A function of your WACATMA could be monitoring the production vs destruciton of these defensive weapons.

[Syvorji]

I propose a change to permit national millitary forces to produce Anti-Tank mines soley to replace stocks used and then detonated, either in a controlled maner or in the defence of said nation. This would cap the number of mines to those currently required for national defence.

A function of your WACATMA could be monitoring the production vs destruciton of these defensive weapons.

Alright.

[Syvorji]

Category: Global Disarmament - Strength: Significant

The World Assembly,

DEFINES for the purposes of the resolution,
- mines' as explosive devices designed to damage and/or destroy tanks and armored fighting vehicles
- 'mined area' as an area in which one or more live mines has been deployed,
- 'dispose' to be the act of destroying, permanently deactivating, or otherwise rendering non-functional, such as through conversion to command detonation of mines;

UNDERSTANDING there are two types of landmines, anti-personnel and anti-tank mines that currently exist;

BELIEVING that Anti-Tank landmines also pose a threat to civilians, as well as troops and vehicles;

HEREBY REQUIRES the members of the World Assembly to,

- Dispose all mines, regardless of being anti-personnel and/or anti-tank
- Immediately cease and desist the production of mines
- Seize all stocks of mines to be used for purposes of combat
- All those won't apply if used in the exemptions

EXEMPTS from those obligations;

- for the military to produce mines to solely replace stocks, and then detonated, either in a controlled matter or in defence
- the transfer of landmines for the purpose of disposal, or for the research and development of mine clearance or mine safety, providing such transfers are limited to absolute necessity,
- the production, possession and deployment of limited numbers of landmines for the purposes of research and development mine clearance or mine safety, provided such actions are conducted within secure areas and with the highest regard for safety,
- the rendering of technical assistance aimed solely at reducing the danger of landmines to non-military personnel, such as through conversion to command-detonation;
- for training purposes in the military, in case if they ever have to fight in a non-WA nation
- at international borders, provided they were tagged

CREATES the World Assembly Clearance of Anti-Tank Mines Agency (WACATMA), to operate alongside with the World Assembly Demining Agency (WADA), with a charter to:

- aware people of the existence anti-tank mines
- conduct clearance of anti-tank mines
- to help rescue people from any vehicle that were damaged and/or destroyed by anti-tank mines
- to promote safety from anti-tank mines
- to tag the anti-tank mines if used at international borders
- to monitor the production vs. destruction of the weapons

The WACATMA must respect the sovereignty of nations, stipulating that:

- member nations of the World Assembly may request to clear anti-tank mines
- requesting they must provide complete and full information on the mined area, including which year it was laid
- storage and disposal of removed landmines and fragments is the responsibility of nations requesting assistance by the WACATMA and that it has all rights to refuse involvement if the WACATMA and/or the WADA deems the requesting nation incompetent for such tasks.

Voting ends: 3 days, 18 hours

Some more changes, so everybody wins.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

This is not an everyone wins proposal. Here are a few things that preclude everyone winning. With the below listed examples from the proposal this is still a proposal that outlaws the production, storage, and employment of anti-tank mines. You are claiming to change but are not changing anything at all.

- Dispose all mines, regardless of being anti-personnel and/or anti-tank
- Immediately cease and desist the production of mines
- Seize all stocks of mines to be used for purposes of combat

Enough dishonesty already as manipulation is a tiresome exercise.

[Ampera]

This is not an everyone wins proposal. Here are a few things that preclude everyone winning. With the below listed examples from the proposal this is still a proposal that outlaws the production, storage, and employment of anti-tank mines. You are claiming to change but are not changing anything at all.

- Dispose all mines, regardless of being anti-personnel and/or anti-tank
- Immediately cease and desist the production of mines
- Seize all stocks of mines to be used for purposes of combat

Enough dishonesty already as manipulation is a tiresome exercise.

I am not in agreement. The statement that "- All those won't apply if used in the exemptions" means that ligitimate millitary forces may maintain a stock of weapons for defensive purposes.

The United Kingdom of Ampera will support this Convention in its currently worded form.

[Syvorji]

This is not an everyone wins proposal. Here are a few things that preclude everyone winning. With the below listed examples from the proposal this is still a proposal that outlaws the production, storage, and employment of anti-tank mines. You are claiming to change but are not changing anything at all.

- Dispose all mines, regardless of being anti-personnel and/or anti-tank
- Immediately cease and desist the production of mines
- Seize all stocks of mines to be used for purposes of combat

Enough dishonesty already as manipulation is a tiresome exercise.

I am not in agreement. The statement that "- All those won't apply if used in the exemptions" means that ligitimate millitary forces may maintain a stock of weapons for defensive purposes.

The United Kingdom of Ampera will support this Convention in its currently worded form.

Thank you Ampera for giving support in it's current form, and I am thinking of an alternative draft, if the HRC doesn't support the current draft, after being re-assured by Ampera.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji

[Holy Roman Confederate]

Failure to change the points I outlined leaves loopholes to be exploited to the ends of eliminating these weapon systems. We believe a full redraft is needed to address the changes requested and being made. Without a redraft this is simply an argument that will never end.

[Syvorji]

Category: Global Disarmament - Strength: Significant

The World Assembly,

DEFINES for the purposes of the resolution,
- mines' as explosive devices designed to damage and/or destroy tanks and armored fighting vehicles on land
- 'mined area' as an area in which one or more live mines has been deployed,
- 'illegal mines' as mines that do not have the approved tags, and/or placed outside of the approved zones
- 'dispose' to be the act of destroying, permanently deactivating, or otherwise rendering non-functional, such as through conversion to command detonation of mines;

UNDERSTANDING there are two types of mines, anti-personnel mines and anti-tank mines that currently exist;

BELIEVING that Anti-Tank landmines also pose a threat to civilians, as well as troops and vehicles;

HEREBY REQUIRES the members of the World Assembly to,

- For increased supervision of production of mines
- To place them at international borders, or outside of facilities that would easily be the target of attacks by terrorists, invaders and/or rebels
- For removal of illegal mines in WA nations

EXEMPTS from those obligations shown above;

- the transfer of landmines for the purpose of disposal, or for the research and development of mine clearance or mine safety, providing such transfers are limited to absolute necessity,
- the production, possession and deployment of limited numbers of landmines for the purposes of research and development mine clearance or mine safety, provided such actions are conducted within secure areas and with the highest regard for safety,
- the rendering of technical assistance aimed solely at reducing the danger of landmines to non-military personnel, such as through conversion to command-detonation;
- for training purposes in the military, in case if they ever have to fight in a non-WA nation

CREATES the World Assembly Clearance of Anti-Tank Mines Agency (WACATMA), to operate alongside with the World Assembly Demining Agency (WADA), with a charter to:

- aware people of the existence of anti-tank mines
- conduct clearance of illegal mines
- to help rescue people from any vehicle that were damaged and/or destroyed by illegal mines
- to promote safety from anti-tank mines
- to tag the anti-tank mines if used at the proper places
- to monitor the production and destruction of the weapons

The WACATMA must respect the sovereignty of nations, stipulating that:

- member nations of the World Assembly may request to clear illegal anti-tank mines
- requesting they must provide complete and full information on the mined area, including which year it was laid
- storage and disposal of removed illegal mines and fragments is the responsibility of nations requesting assistance by the WACATMA and that it has all rights to refuse involvement if the WACATMA and/or the WADA deems the requesting nation incompetent for such tasks.

Voting ends: 3 days, 18 hours

Here is the new draft! -yawns- Some major changes here, but still needs more work, or maybe not. I don't know.

Signed,
Joesphine Katrina
Ambassador to the WA from the Osthian Autonomous Province of Syvorji