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by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:59 am
by Philimbesi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:36 am
A cutpurse and an addict are two very different things. If the person broke the law, then yes, at some point they should probably be punished. But it is more important that the human life is saved. Addiction is a disease, if anyone should be punished its the companies/countries that provided the person with the drug in the first place.

by Eireann Fae » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:10 am
Urgench wrote:Why on earth should the WA, and international organisation, be involved in dictating how member states deal with the issue of drug addiction? How is this a matter of international law?
Yours,
Philimbesi wrote:Right up until the cutpurse says they only did it because they are addicted to the adrenalin rush of stealing. So who's life is more important and why should this body value one form of addiction over the others?
Nations in this body have extremely vast differences of opinion on the very subject of drugs. Therefore addiction should be addressed on a local level. The USP feels as though the only aspect of drugs that should be dealt with on an international level is that where drugs are exported or transported from one nation to another.

by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:05 am
Eireann Fae wrote:Urgench wrote:Why on earth should the WA, and international organisation, be involved in dictating how member states deal with the issue of drug addiction? How is this a matter of international law?
Yours,Philimbesi wrote:Right up until the cutpurse says they only did it because they are addicted to the adrenalin rush of stealing. So who's life is more important and why should this body value one form of addiction over the others?
Nations in this body have extremely vast differences of opinion on the very subject of drugs. Therefore addiction should be addressed on a local level. The USP feels as though the only aspect of drugs that should be dealt with on an international level is that where drugs are exported or transported from one nation to another.
"What makes the Charter of Civil Rights an international issue? How one nation treats its citizens has no bearing on the international community at large. What about the Workplace Safety Standards Act? Freedom of Marriage Act? Living Wage Act? All of these has a direct bearing only on how a nation treats the citizens within its borders, and should be of no concern to the international community at large. By your logic, these resolutions should not exist. Freedom of Expression is not an international concern, nor are the Right to a Lawful Divorce or Reduction of Abortion Act, or Access to Science in Schools. And that's all just within the first 50 GA resolutions..." Rowan puts her codex away.
"The fact is, this body has a long history of protecting the basic rights of the citizens and inhabitants of Member Nations, even on a national level. We are not asking to usurp your existing drug laws, or that you stop incarcerating people for simple possession of even minor drugs. All we ask is that those in genuine need of medical or mental care get the care they need. We see this as a basic civil rights issue, and should be no different than the resolutions I mentioned before, or the many others passed with a similar 'international effect'."
by Philimbesi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:16 am
Right to a Lawful Divorce or Reduction of Abortion Act, or Access to Science in Schools

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:37 am
Philimbesi wrote:Right up until the cutpurse says they only did it because they are addicted to the adrenalin rush of stealing. So who's life is more important and why should this body value one form of addiction over the others?
Nations in this body have extremely vast differences of opinion on the very subject of drugs. Therefore addiction should be addressed on a local level. The USP feels as though the only aspect of drugs that should be dealt with on an international level is that where drugs are exported or transported from one nation to another.

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:40 am
Philimbesi wrote:sexual addiction, or a gambling addiction, or an addiction to chocolate, or kleptomania?

by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:46 am
Monikian WA Mission wrote:"By and large Monikians agree. That said, this proposal makes no effort to decriminalize or criminalize drugs. That keeps that on the local level. It merely classifies drug addiction as a disease requiring that treatment be made available. How treatment is made available is completely up to the nation. In all honestly the entire proposal has huge loopholes in it for a good reason. As a Natsov friendly government ourselves we are seeking to prevent far worse legislation on this area. Though we may also tackle the exportation and transportation issue--to lower tariffs of course."

by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:01 am
Monikian WA Mission wrote:
"We do not think that a hormone would be classified the same as a drug. Nor would a hormonal addiction be classified the same as a drug addiction. As it stands we have to reiterate our belief that it is the duty of nations to ensure the health and well being of their citizens including those addicted to drugs."

by Erythrina » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:08 am
Philimbesi wrote:Why not those with [...] an addiction to chocolate

by Great Nepal » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:09 am
Eireann Fae wrote:Great Nepal wrote:No, a simple no.
Using an illegal substance is a crime not a disease. They may now be attached to drugs so much that they cant stop it, but whose fault was it? THEIRS. We didn't open their mouth and put Drugs in their Digestive System. They decided to take drug voluntarily. They may have changed their ways now or may want to change their ways but that doesn't change the fact that they did a act which is defined as crime by law. There is a old probove in our nation, "If you take a plank of wood and put 1 nail each time you do a bad thing and take out 1 nail each time you do a good thing. In the end there may not be any nails left but the marks made by the nail will remain for ever on the plank".
-- Mr Ramesh Shaker
Deglate from one of the Puppets of Great Nepal
"So you would condemn a person that's mentally or physically addicted to drugs to go through a life in and out of prison rather than help them?" Rowan tries to keep a straight face as she asks the Nepalese Ambassador the question, but she has some difficulty due to the little Faerie dancing with an imaginary friend on her head. "These are sick people, and they need help! Yes, they committed a crime, and you are more than free to cast judgement on them and incarcerate them for their crime. But don't you think it'd be better to try and help them become productive members of society rather than cast them out as addicts that will immediately seek out their next high, only to be brought right back into the system?" At this point, the diminutive Emissary falls from the girl's head onto the desk, landing on her back. Rowan frowns in concern, but is put at ease when she tickles the Faerie's belly and is answered with a smile. Episky rolls into a ball on her side and starts to snore. The girl rolls her eyes before returning her gaze to Ramesh, waiting for a response.
by Philimbesi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:13 am
Erythrina wrote:Philimbesi wrote:Why not those with [...] an addiction to chocolate
Oh hi! I see that has been addressed already...
A love potion to you!

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:38 am
Urgench wrote:These are the words of someone who knows absolutely nothing about the subject matter they wish to write legislation for, it is outrageous folly and arrogance to presume to write laws for matters your Excellency is clearly in complete ignorance about.
Yours,
Urgench wrote:But where was there any indication that what your Excellency now nakedly describes as a blocking resolution was even necessary? There are no drafting debates surrounding the issue of drug addiction treatment provision in progress other than this one. It seems absurd to suggest that this resolution is somehow necessitated by the rigours of a national sovereigntist position on WA legislation.
Might we also say that given that your Excellency shows no real aptitude for the composition of sound and well reasoned statutory implements that your Excellency drop the notion that they might be doing the WA the greatest of services by writing any other resolutions, such as that your Excellency mentioned dealing with "the exportation and transportation issue" (whatever that may be). Indeed your Excellency would do this organisation the greatest service by not attempting that task.
Yours,

by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:56 am
Monikian WA Mission wrote:Urgench wrote:These are the words of someone who knows absolutely nothing about the subject matter they wish to write legislation for, it is outrageous folly and arrogance to presume to write laws for matters your Excellency is clearly in complete ignorance about.
Yours,
Faiksa Albertron smirked before replying.
"While we will admit that we do not understand human physiology completely, we can state that this adrenalin alluded to is not an outside substance introduced to the physiology but rather a naturally occurring hormone. As such it cannot be classified as a drug. If it could I would suppose that next someone would claim that the hormones which initiate sexual maturity are drugs.
"As for your pathetic attempt at psychological warfare it won't work on me. I'm known well in Kulahn as a extremely hard-minded female.Urgench wrote:But where was there any indication that what your Excellency now nakedly describes as a blocking resolution was even necessary? There are no drafting debates surrounding the issue of drug addiction treatment provision in progress other than this one. It seems absurd to suggest that this resolution is somehow necessitated by the rigours of a national sovereigntist position on WA legislation.
"We would question whether your excellency has been paying attention to the debates occuring in the GA and the rather silly resolution attempts by the Delegation of Nova Caeli. Granted its proposals are extremely stupid--but there the issue of constructing a universal addiction resolution. Indeed one which would not have loopholes large enough pilot a starcruiser through. Indeed the beauty of this resolution is those loopholes.Might we also say that given that your Excellency shows no real aptitude for the composition of sound and well reasoned statutory implements that your Excellency drop the notion that they might be doing the WA the greatest of services by writing any other resolutions, such as that your Excellency mentioned dealing with "the exportation and transportation issue" (whatever that may be). Indeed your Excellency would do this organisation the greatest service by not attempting that task.
Yours,
"Perhaps your excellency has forgotten the purpose of a drafting committee? That is to improve upon the draft until such a point as it is passable. This draft is most likely not acceptable as it stands the point of even discussing it is to implement such revisions to where it is not only acceptable but passable.
"Over all I want to point out again that attempts at psychological warfare against my drafting of proposals will not work on me. I am as I said known to be a hard-minded female. Indeed if I were not I doubt that the Monikian Ministry of Interstellar Affairs would have appointed me Senior Ambassador to this Assembly.
"Also I will be including a provision in the latest draft to exclude hormones in one of the defining clauses."

by Great Nepal » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:07 am
Eorld wrote:
A cutpurse and an addict are two very different things. If the person broke the law, then yes, at some point they should probably be punished. But it is more important that the human life is saved. Addiction is a disease, if anyone should be punished its the companies/countries that provided the person with the drug in the first place.

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:39 am
Urgench wrote:Monikian WA Mission wrote:
Faiksa Albertron smirked before replying.
"While we will admit that we do not understand human physiology completely, we can state that this adrenalin alluded to is not an outside substance introduced to the physiology but rather a naturally occurring hormone. As such it cannot be classified as a drug. If it could I would suppose that next someone would claim that the hormones which initiate sexual maturity are drugs.
"As for your pathetic attempt at psychological warfare it won't work on me. I'm known well in Kulahn as a extremely hard-minded female.
"We would question whether your excellency has been paying attention to the debates occuring in the GA and the rather silly resolution attempts by the Delegation of Nova Caeli. Granted its proposals are extremely stupid--but there the issue of constructing a universal addiction resolution. Indeed one which would not have loopholes large enough pilot a starcruiser through. Indeed the beauty of this resolution is those loopholes.
"Perhaps your excellency has forgotten the purpose of a drafting committee? That is to improve upon the draft until such a point as it is passable. This draft is most likely not acceptable as it stands the point of even discussing it is to implement such revisions to where it is not only acceptable but passable.
"Over all I want to point out again that attempts at psychological warfare against my drafting of proposals will not work on me. I am as I said known to be a hard-minded female. Indeed if I were not I doubt that the Monikian Ministry of Interstellar Affairs would have appointed me Senior Ambassador to this Assembly.
"Also I will be including a provision in the latest draft to exclude hormones in one of the defining clauses."
The issue of whether or not hormones are an introduced substance into the physiology of a human being (when clearly unless they are synthetic they are not) is an irrelevance, and not apposite in anyway. The point your Excellency has spectacularly missed is that addiction may occur to a wide variety of substances, stimuli and behaviours which have the effect of causing physical dependence. This in point of fact does include hormones produced within the body which cause pleasurable or intoxicating physical symptoms.
Indeed the primary reason most introduced substances are addictive is that they induce biochemical or neurochemical responses which are themselves capable of creating dependency.
As for the attempt on the part of the honoured delegation of Nova Caeli at a universal addiction resolution your Excellency refers to it is manifestly moribund, all the more so since its drafting discussions have been closed permanently by the secretariat. So to what end does your Excellency attempt to block a totally moribund drafting process?
What your Excellency is referring to when they use the term psychological warfare we have absolutely no idea, is it considered psychological warfare in your Excellency's culture to have strong objections to the justifications for a WA proposal and to express deep concern that those who presume to author it exhibit no especially aptitude in doing so?
Yours,
by Philimbesi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:43 am
Furthermore it is not the purpose of this legislation to deal with addiction to any other substance other than drugs.

by Great Nepal » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:43 am
Monikian WA Mission wrote:Faliksa Albertron eyes the Ambassador from Great Nepal.
"You do realize that this resolution does nothing to legalize or criminalize drugs right? You do realize that this resolution in no way stops nations from passing their own sentencing laws on drug related crimes right? And you do realize that the only thing that this resolution mandates is that treatment for addiction be made available right? Any nation which would refuse medical treatment for disease has far more severe problems than its citizens taking and becoming addicted to drugs regardless of the legality of the drugs in question."

by Frostaland » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:44 am
Xanicea wrote:If you forcibly kick Capitalists out of your nation, you're either a genius (because you developed a planned economy that can grow/thrive without Capitalism) or you're an idiot (because you basically condemned your nation to economic stagnation and shrinkage)

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:53 am
Philimbesi wrote:Furthermore it is not the purpose of this legislation to deal with addiction to any other substance other than drugs.
Caffeine counts then?
Great Nepal wrote:No, we wouldn't want to waste taxpayers money on Criminals who will be sentenced to life in one of our work camps. Once they wont get drugs, they will change automatically.
by Philimbesi » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:25 am

by Bears Armed » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:27 am
Monikian WA Mission wrote:Bears Armed wrote:And this from the same diplomatic mission that, only recently, called 'Wise Woodland Management' an affront to sovereignty?!?
"Well it is. You were proposing to regulate an industry in member nations which they can do themselves. This is ensuring that those with a disease--drug addiction--have the option of medical treatment made available to them without messing with the laws of the member nation further.

by Monikian WA Mission » Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:15 pm
Philimbesi wrote:An internationally funded chapter of Caffeine Addicts Anonymous would not be something that the people of the USP would be interested in.

by Urgench » Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:54 pm
Monikian WA Mission wrote:Urgench wrote:
The issue of whether or not hormones are an introduced substance into the physiology of a human being (when clearly unless they are synthetic they are not) is an irrelevance, and not apposite in anyway. The point your Excellency has spectacularly missed is that addiction may occur to a wide variety of substances, stimuli and behaviours which have the effect of causing physical dependence. This in point of fact does include hormones produced within the body which cause pleasurable or intoxicating physical symptoms.
"A synthetic artificially introduced hormone would be classified as a drug. A drug most likely used in the medical profession for medical purposes but still a drug. Furthermore it is not the purpose of this legislation to deal with addiction to any other substance other than drugs. Is your excellency arguing that we should expand the proposal to include treatment for substances and/or actions other than the ingestion of a substance?Indeed the primary reason most introduced substances are addictive is that they induce biochemical or neurochemical responses which are themselves capable of creating dependency.
"Which is why addiction to these substances is a disease and not a crime.
"I'll illustrate this point from a matter of recent Monikian history. Some four earth years ago a ship containing humans crash landed on our planet. Many of these humans were seriously injured and we attempted to render them assistance, one such case being a human whose single heart had already stopped briefly while undergoing a procedure that saved his life. Normally when one is undergoing an operation and one of the patent's hearts, or worse both of them, stops it is not uncommon to administer 15 mg of *Janifriem. This naturally caused the heart to start beating again and he was able to continue living. However the effect of such a small dose to a human we discovered unfortunately is that he was instantly addicted to *Janifriem. The cause of this addiction was the result of neurochemical changes brought on by the drug itself. We found out from this unfortunate, and unintentional experience that this drug completely disrupted human neurotransmitters. His addiction unfortunately later killed him because we did not understand this until it was too late, and *Janifriem has an effect on us similar to Caffeine to a human and is legally obtainable in our society.As for the attempt on the part of the honoured delegation of Nova Caeli at a universal addiction resolution your Excellency refers to it is manifestly moribund, all the more so since its drafting discussions have been closed permanently by the secretariat. So to what end does your Excellency attempt to block a totally moribund drafting process?
"That delegation will again attempt to address this issue once they learn how to create an ad hoc drafting committee. Once that happens I am under no illusion that the delegation of Nova Caeli will be permanently incapable of drafting a passable resolution with the help of more experienced delegations. Having more than once had interactions with this delegations it is the feeling of the Monikian Delegation, as I did indeed summon a Delegation Council (and let me tell you stuffing the 45 staff and subordinate ambassadors into a tent in a corridor on the 80th floor was difficult) on how best to address this issue which very well could be subjected to all manner of stupid proposals. Talik* Murzhan in his last official act as an Ambassador (as he is returning to Monkiah to give birth to his child--may his child be a feminine child) suggested that we draft a resolution to address the issue before they did.What your Excellency is referring to when they use the term psychological warfare we have absolutely no idea, is it considered psychological warfare in your Excellency's culture to have strong objections to the justifications for a WA proposal and to express deep concern that those who presume to author it exhibit no especially aptitude in doing so?
Yours,
"In Monikian society it is not uncommon, especially in Local, Sub-National and in the Supreme Council for opposing factions to attack the psychological weaknesses of the proposer. If such an attack is successful the opposing faction does not have to do the long much more difficult task of actively lobbying against the proposal. Your behavior is quite similar to this behavior, so we have concluded that the attempt here is to get our delegation to drop the proposal rather than work on it until such time as we are sufficiently confident it is passable.

by Quelesh » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:17 am
Eireann Fae wrote:We are not asking to usurp your existing drug laws, or that you stop incarcerating people for simple possession of even minor drugs.
Monikian WA Mission wrote:As a Natsov friendly government ourselves we are seeking to prevent far worse legislation on this area.
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