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(DRAFT) Improvements into drug proposal

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

What do you think of this proposal?

It is a good proposal which is certainly a development for the WA
2
7%
It is ok but needs development before I support this in the WA
4
15%
It is a bad proposal and will never get my vote in the WA
21
78%
 
Total votes : 27

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Nova Caeli
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(DRAFT) Improvements into drug proposal

Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:52 am

This proposes to legalize all use of recreational drugs, below are in detail what this proposal prosposes:
- that the selling of drugs should be restricted to be only made by government owned companies as to lower the amount of people buying off criminals who can use the money to buy weapons and such.
-That it should be possible for drug addicts to get help without fear of being arrested after treatment and that rehab payment is a percentage of a persons income meaning that the price will adapt to the person so all can afford it (many people cannot afford rehab since it is so expensive, meaning only the rich can go and that is not the majority of drug users which actually need things like rehab to get off the drug)
-The drug market will always exist whether you like it or not and it is growing with new chemical drugs being made daily in the chemical labs of drug dealers and gangs worldwide. Information is needed so that we are all informed on these new substances and government should be able to control the developing and manufacturing of these new drugs as to filter the drugs which are far to dangerous, many have died and the government cannot find out what it was that killed these poor peole since they are made by criminals who arent to keen on government testing of their new 'products'.
-Heroin arguably the most dangerous illegal drug is categorized a 'dirty drug'. This means that it is a chemical cocktail and every time you buy it from a dealer it shall always be different and therefore dangerous. If the government were to create the heroin substances and regulated them so they all had the same formula with levels of different strongness shown on the packet people will know exactely what they are taking and it wont be deadly unless overdose ( but a single packet will be much less then the amount needed for overdose) even weed or marajuana or 'skunk' as it is now called has been made a 'dirty drug' a drug which was used to be believed as very safe and relaxing. Soon it wont be because of the new substances put in weed by the dealers. If the government brought it back to 'old school' weed it would keep the additional substances added to it way under control.
-That the minimum age for the buying of drugs should be 18, an age when you can make decisions for yourself as an adult.
-That you can only take drugs in your own home or your friends, and if a compnay, store or bar, club etc. wishes that their business wants to allow drug intake in the building it can fill out a form and get a liscence to sell and take drugs in the facility, the country may decide how the liscensing is given out and decided.
-That just with the tobacco tax there should be the recreational drug tax, this could certainly becoming a big part of the economy and give a hefty sum of money to the government.
This plan could dramatically lower the amount of deaths because of drug use, since they will be developed by government with an agenda on creating more safe to use drugs. Crime will lower since gangs and criminal organisations will lose their main source of money, and the development of drugs in the future won't be made by a drug dealer on the streets wanting more money and less quality as to raise their profits but the government who can maintain safe drugs with more pure and clean substances. You must remember without this becoming WA law drugs still will be sold and bought whatever you do, what matters is who sells them and develops them who would you like to do that? gangs on the street? or bright and intelligient scientists funded by the government?
Last edited by Nova Caeli on Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:29 am, edited 11 times in total.

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Hirota
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Postby Hirota » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:42 am

This read like a messy and poorly thought essay, not really a proposal. There are holes larger than the great Hirotan memorial arch in Capitol in this scribbling.

But I saw this
The drug market will always exist whether you like it or not and it is growing with new chemical drugs being made daily in the chemical labs of drug dealers and gangs worldwide.
Which is fine, and I can appreciate that. But then....
That the minimum age for the buying of drugs should be 25
The drug market will always exist for under 25's whether you like it or not. instead of "gangs" selling drugs, we will get gangs selling drugs to kids instead

Moreover, this a slippery slope. You talk about it reducing crime - so, let's legalize stealing - after all, then these poor robbers won't have to sneak around, and possible harm someone out of fright. See, we can cut down on deaths by legalizing robbery! Sound silly? Exactly.
Last edited by Hirota on Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:51 am

yh I see what you mean and have decided to change it to 18 this is not showing me to be flimsy but I am open to improvements
waht you say on robbery? how is taking drugs like robbing someone? drugs are different from robbery in everyway I mean is there a similarity in alchohol and cigarettes with robbery? by legalizing you are helping make drugs safer because of regulising them. I mean I dont believe this to be a slippery slope but laws which have to be put in for modern society. I mean answer me this why is alchohol and cigarettes legal and drugs arent? I think it is because they have been accepted into society and now so have most drugs shouldnt they be legalized as well?

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:41 am

why has this draft been submitted? Without debate? And with near unanimous disapproval?
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Nova Caeli
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:16 am

wait and see before you saw unanimous disaproval and I wanted to propose this and was told to write draft before hand so here it is

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:23 am

submitting a proposal is NOT the same as writing a draft. Once submitted, no changes can be made. You have never even posted your draft here for debate, so how could it be submitted as completed? That is either arrogance or ignorance on your part, I haven't decided which yet.
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Nova Caeli
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:26 am

in a way the proposal I have put forward is a test, it shows the main pros of legalising drugs and basic adjustments forgive me since I am quite new but this will definately help me see peoples views on the subject legalization of drugs especially out of the WA delegates so what would you say do first just start a topic asking what people think about the subject?

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:46 am

To start, you should read this and this.

Posting the draft is the accepted norm. Posting "an idea" is not a draft. Having a "test submission" is not posting a draft. Only posting the actual draft, then engaging in debate, is posting a draft.
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Flibbleites
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Postby Flibbleites » Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:43 am

Nova Caeli wrote:wait and see before you saw unanimous disaproval and I wanted to propose this and was told to write draft before hand so here it is

No, I told you to post it on the forum before you submitted it, see.
Flibbleites wrote:But if you do decide to pursue your proposal, be sure to post it here prior to submitting it.

Bob Flibble
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Monikian WA Mission
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Founded: Nov 01, 2010
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Postby Monikian WA Mission » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:16 am

Falikisa Albertron addressed the body.

"First this is an essay, not a resolution. Form does matter.

"Second...

- that the selling of drugs should be restricted to be only made by government owned companies


"The hard line capitalist nations will never agree to this, and neither would we. Although we are socialist "companies" are not "owned" by the Government, they are "owned" by the workers who work in them, and administrated by a Worker's council which elects management.

"Third...

Heroin


"Has no biological effect on Monikians other than causing a severe headache. Drugs that are used by humans do not always effect other sentient beings. For that matter poisons to humans are not always poisons to other sentient beings and things that are neither drugs nor poisons to humans do not always have the same or similar effect on non-human sentient beings. For example *Jabrukah, the Monikian equivilant to ethanol beverages would not make a human drunk like it would a Monikian--it would probably make them sick to their stomach considering it is called in English 'Soured Milk'. Likewise, Janifriem a mild stimulant equivalent to espresso in effect for a Monikian has narcotic stimulant effects on a human--and is to them extremely addictive. Furthermore Monikians usually sprinkle arsenic on their food, where as humans use sodium chloride . To us arsenic is tasty and improves flavor, to humans it is a deadly poison. For us sodium chloride is a caustic alkaloid.

"Considering that not every nation in the WA is a human nation passing resolutions on drugs is unlikely and given the history not only of the WA but also its UNmentionable predecessor organization unlikely to even make it to queue.

"Fourth...

That the minimum age for the buying of drugs should be 18, an age when you can make decisions for yourself as an adult.


"18 what? 18 Earth years which would be 7.2 Monikian years or 18 years across the board which means that for a Monikian they would have to be the human equivalent in biological age to 24 (our biological aging factor reduces to half that for humans after sexual maturity)? Never mind that Adult for a Monikian is about 7 years (driving a hover vehicle, getting work/university, sexual consent [excluding Binome males--they require training for their biological role] and other stuff just short of voting) and 10 years for ABSOLUTE Majority. As you cans see to us this entire passage is preposterous, not to mention a reduction of our existing rights. In any case in Monkiah, minors can use our recreational substances, less *sord*dunak which is both an aphrodisiac but also has the effect of locking the taker and the first person they mate with in eternal monogamy--and thus is restricted for Binomes, minors, and consent forms are required to be used by adults-- under parental supervision anyway.

"Fifth...

That just with the tobacco tax


"Monkiah and its WA mission doesn't have taxes, because we don't have a traditional form of money. Secondly Tobacco causes severe nerve damage to our people so it typically is not used.

"Sixth...

Crime will lower since gangs and criminal organisations will lose their main source of money


"No it won't. Criminal Organizations--which my nation doesn't have unless you count Delinquent Females who need a strong Mother to put them back in line--one of the side effects of allowing divorces, but that law won't be going away for us either the males on the council won't allow it--will not stop illegal distribution of things classed as drugs. They will simply change their focus of sales from adults to minors.

"Seventh...

the development of drugs in the future won't be made by a drug dealer on the streets wanting more money and less quality as to raise their profits but the government who can maintain safe drugs with more pure and clean substances.


"Capitalist run socieities, particularly those where the government is run and administered by corporations for example may simply not care about quality and focus on prpfi instead. Secondly the other provisions would create a class of criminals which doesn't exist in other nations--Monkiah for example.

"Eighth..

You must remember without this becoming WA law drugs still will be sold and bought whatever you do


"Which is exactly why this is a national and not an international issue. Let nations make their laws on this matter as they please--even if those laws are stupid laws.

"Finally...

or bright and intelligient scientists funded by the government


"Just because a scientist is funded by the government doesn't make her intelligent. After all, governmental funding certainly would not increase production of root vegetables in nearly barren soil."
Last edited by Monikian WA Mission on Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 11:51 am

Nova Caeli wrote:It aint that stupid I mean sure its quite a radical change but I still think there are a few good points in there


Then you should have POSTED IT HERE FOR DEBATE FIRST BEFORE SUBMISSION.

This is the sequence of events:
1. Post draft
2. Debate draft
3. Make necessary changes from points raised during the debate
4. Debate some more
5. Finalize draft
6. Submit draft.

NOT this:
1. Post extremely vague "idea" topic
2. Decide you know better than anybody else.
3. Submit proposal without debate or even posting it in the GA first
4. Complain that nobody wants to support it

Get it now?
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:39 pm

I have created a new post where hopefully this mess has been cleaned up and we can start the debate so please go on that so we can start this process

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:11 pm

Honoured ambassadors from Nova Caeli, in respect of the WA's stance on legalising or outlawing drugs we feel that the decision should be ultimately left to member states, because there is no clear cut universal definition of the health affects of some drugs. Most notably cannabis/marijuana: while it has no link to death to date some member states may outlaw it for the risk of developing mental health problems later. However, although International Drug Education is addressed already, there is space for addressing drug addiction, in which Ms. Harper decided against an all-in-one draft on addiction in general due to the difference methods of reduction. This is because, for example, while gambling advertising may be okay, drug advertising is unlikely to be (and there is also that risk of accidentally covering the addiction to the colour yellow with an all-in-one! ;) ).
Last edited by Charlotte Ryberg on Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:55 pm

HI Charlotte sorry but do you mind moving to the new Drug legislation debate I made (sorry for the confusion that will be the permanent place for the debate and proposal) but this is shouldnt be looked at about being just about legalising its also about helping these people if you see new proposals it endorses more rehabs for the poor and endroses the making of clean and pure drugs. The only way to clean the drug world is to enter it through legalising and turn it around through cleaner products and more rehabs this is what this proposal proposes it is just about drugees getting what they want

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:56 pm


and can i repeat the new placce for this debate is the drug legislation page so go there instead of hewre if you are reading this please

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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:14 pm

Nova Caeli, stick to one thread when drafting a proposal. I've left this one open, as it's the only one that actually includes a draft.

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:39 pm

can you do me a favour and not the new one Drug legislation as i said is the permenant one it isnt a draft since i want peoples ideas first so please dont use this one anymore i know soz i messed up again but do me a favour and just use that one please

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:42 pm

but if you insist on still using this you should know the orginial draft (as seen) has been scraped I am creating a new one but want peoples advice as to what they would like to see in a proposal to legalize certain drugs so any ideas/advice?

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:46 pm

See, theres the thing, there are many nations who do not believe that legalizing "recreational" drugs is a good idea, and is especially not one that the WA as a whole needs to address because of it being primarily a national level issue.
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Sedgistan
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Postby Sedgistan » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm

Nova Caeli wrote:but if you insist on still using this you should know the orginial draft (as seen) has been scraped I am creating a new one but want peoples advice as to what they would like to see in a proposal to legalize certain drugs so any ideas/advice?

Use this thread to gather suggestions, and update the first post in it as your draft develops.

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:49 pm

i see but do u think that if those group of people were more informed on how by legalising it can be restricted and filtered they may see where it is getting at, and if not possibly passing a law promoting drugs (e.g. opening rehabs for poor etc.) would be more suitable for the WA?

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Grays Harbor
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Postby Grays Harbor » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:55 pm

We have yet to see any concrete suggestions from you on how this would be a benefit to anybody. Nothing. Just some vague platitudes and sloganeering.

1.) How will legalizing recreational drugs promote educating people about them? There are already a multitude of educvational programs about them.
2.) Mandated national sponsorship of rehab clinics?
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Holy Roman Confederate
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Postby Holy Roman Confederate » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:58 pm

Only so many ways exist to say no. I will not waste this humble body's time recounting them all. No, just no.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78531
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79073&p=3753933#p3753933

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:00 pm

the concrete evidence is as i said crime shall lower as the criminals will lose their financing since legal business' shall be seeling not them, that will be made purer and potentially much more safe since alot of garbage and poison is added to the drug which is unnecsesary and potentially dangerous. And possibly yes there are too much rehabs which are too expensive for the more poor user, this needs to change with the making onf national rehabilitation centers (do you think that is a proposal in its own)
new business can be made from it andthe civil rights of the people strengthened

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Nova Caeli
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Founded: Nov 15, 2010
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Postby Nova Caeli » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:09 pm

and all the people who take it what are they criminals?
these people are just as much criminals as people who drink and they arent criminals
peoples lives can be ruined because of jail sentences for drug users if legalisation is not to be supported for legalising would national rehab centers and no jail time except for dealers but forced rehab for users who are caught taking it more plausible?

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