proposal: The promotion of Orbital defen...

[Canadaiana]

I'm kind of new here and this is my first topic and proposal, anyway this is how my proposal goes:


If this resolution is passed, it will give any nation in the WA the right to install orbital defense/offense systems in earth’s orbit. Defensive systems can be used to take out enemy ships planes and missiles, while Offensive Systems can be used to take out ground targets. Though there is a list of rules to be followed in the use of such systems.

Orbital Offensive Systems

1. Orbital Offensive Systems can only be used after a nation has provoked the nation you lead (provoked being defined as being attacked by another nation)
2. One offensive satellite are to be permitted per nation
3. The only warheads permitted to be loaded on satellites are conventional warheads, any use of biological, radiological, chemical or nuclear warheads are not permitted.
4. Use of installing lasers on an Orbital Offensive Satellite is not permitted.

Orbital Defensive Systems

1. Ships can only be taken out by these systems if a military ship enters your nation. National waters without stating its intentions.
2. Two defensive satellites are permitted per nation.
3. Use of laser or Conventional missiles permitted to take out enemy missiles.
4. Use of only conventional missiles is permitted to take out enemy ships.

This resolution will go into act a day after it’s passed.

Like it or not?

[Rutianas]

I'm kind of new here and this is my first topic and proposal, anyway this is how my proposal goes:

Everyone starts somewhere.

If this resolution is passed, it will give any nation in the WA the right to install orbital defense/offense systems in earth’s orbit. Defensive systems can be used to take out enemy ships planes and missiles, while Offensive Systems can be used to take out ground targets. Though there is a list of rules to be followed in the use of such systems.

Now, this I like. You need to find a category and strength next.

Orbital Offensive Systems

1. Orbital Offensive Systems can only be used after a nation has provoked the nation you lead (provoked being defined as being attacked by another nation)

Agreed. That's how it should be used.

2. One offensive satellite are to be permitted per nation

Hmm. Some nations may have an entire planet or several planets under their control. So if we're only allowed one per nation, then nations with several planets are leaving some without an offensive satellite. I most certainly do not agree. The Republic has nine planetary systems under our control. We will not be told we cannot have offensive satellites in orbit for their protection.

3. The only warheads permitted to be loaded on satellites are conventional warheads, any use of biological, radiological, chemical or nuclear warheads are not permitted.

You may have to repeal The Nuclear Arms Possession Act first. It allows for nations to defend themselves with nuclear weapons. Whether or not any nation has had to, I don't know, but saying that nuclear weapons aren't permitted on satellites may be in conflict with the aforementioned resolution. Perhaps other ambassadors will have more to say on that topic. Since the Republic does not use nuclear weaponry, it doesn't matter to us that they're not permitted in this version of the proposal.

4. Use of installing lasers on an Orbital Offensive Satellite is not permitted.

I don't agree with this one. Most of our weapon systems are laser based. If we cannot use lasers then we'd have to use bombardment type weaponry. Much worse than lasers in our opinion.

Orbital Defensive Systems

1. Ships can only be taken out by these systems if a military ship enters your nation. National waters without stating its intentions.

Umm, that may not be a good idea. There could be technical problems on a ship that is keeping it from communcations. Granted, it's not a common situation, but if you were in that situation and on that ship, wouldn't you like to have the option of survival rather than being blasted out of the water from an orbital defense system?

2. Two defensive satellites are permitted per nation.

Same issue as one offensive satellite.

3. Use of laser or Conventional missiles permitted to take out enemy missiles.

Good.

4. Use of only conventional missiles is permitted to take out enemy ships.

Again, our weapons systems are primarily laser based. Otherwise, it's bombardment. We don't have conventional missiles. We've developed past that.

This resolution will go into act a day after it’s passed.

It'll go into effect as soon as it's passed.

Like it or not?

There's some good stuff in here and stuff that needs work. All in all, I think it would be a good idea as it allows offensive weaponry as well.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

[Philimbesi]

I'm kind of new here and this is my first topic and proposal, anyway this is how my proposal goes:


If this resolution is passed, it will give any nation in the WA the right to install orbital defense/offense systems in earth’s orbit. Defensive systems can be used to take out enemy ships planes and missiles, while Offensive Systems can be used to take out ground targets. Though there is a list of rules to be followed in the use of such systems.

Orbital Offensive Systems

1. Orbital Offensive Systems can only be used after a nation has provoked the nation you lead (provoked being defined as being attacked by another nation)
2. One offensive satellite are to be permitted per nation
3. The only warheads permitted to be loaded on satellites are conventional warheads, any use of biological, radiological, chemical or nuclear warheads are not permitted.
4. Use of installing lasers on an Orbital Offensive Satellite is not permitted.

Orbital Defensive Systems

1. Ships can only be taken out by these systems if a military ship enters your nation. National waters without stating its intentions.
2. Two defensive satellites are permitted per nation.
3. Use of laser or Conventional missiles permitted to take out enemy missiles.
4. Use of only conventional missiles is permitted to take out enemy ships.

This resolution will go into act a day after it’s passed.

Like it or not?

Ah...no.
Resolutions going in to effect immediately after passage.

1) Who determines when the nation is provoked? Isn't the fact that one nations possesses them enough provocation... certainly is for us.
2) Space is pretty big, one isn't very much.
3) The WA states that nuclear warheads are allowed...
4) That's what an Orbital Space Station is for... it is a frickin laser.

1) So if a ship enters our waters, and says their intentions are to sail as close to a harbor and detonate these bombs, we have to let them in?
2) The USoP alone has a network of at least 25 spy satalites which 2 do you wish me to keep?
3) Um.. K
4) Um.. K

[Rutianas]

1) So if a ship enters our waters, and says their intentions are to sail as close to a harbor and detonate these bombs, we have to let them in?

Oh, you don't have to let them in. You just can't blast them out of the sky with orbital defense. You can, of course, mobilize your navy and blast them out of the water with whatever weapons you possess on said naval vessels. At least, that's how I understood it.

[Flibbleites]

3. The only warheads permitted to be loaded on satellites are conventional warheads, any use of biological, radiological, chemical or nuclear warheads are not permitted.

You may have to repeal The Nuclear Arms Possession Act first. It allows for nations to defend themselves with nuclear weapons. Whether or not any nation has had to, I don't know, but saying that nuclear weapons aren't permitted on satellites may be in conflict with the aforementioned resolution. Perhaps other ambassadors will have more to say on that topic. Since the Republic does not use nuclear weaponry, it doesn't matter to us that they're not permitted in this version of the proposal.

As I see it, it just bans nuclear weapons from being loaded onto an orbital platform so it's fine.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

[Rutianas]

As I see it, it just bans nuclear weapons from being loaded onto an orbital platform so it's fine.

Bob Flibble
WA Representative

Thank you. I wasn't sure about that.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

[Absolvability]

If this resolution is passed, it will give any nation in the WA the right to install orbital defense/offense systems in earth’s orbit.

This should be changed to include more than just earth. Or, more to the point, are you seriously going to let people from Mars install orbital defense/offense systems in Earth's orbit but not let the reverse? Personally I think it should be that, "all WA nations have the right to install defense/offense systems in orbit about their planet of residence." Which is probably what you meant, but you are new here as you said, and might not have realized that many WA nations do not live on Earth.

Defensive systems can be used to take out enemy ships planes and missiles, while Offensive Systems can be used to take out ground targets.

If this is a definition it needs refining. If it is a rule I can not support it.

1. Orbital Offensive Systems can only be used after a nation has provoked the nation you lead (provoked being defined as being attacked by another nation)

If we are going to condone war at all why should we decide what weapons are legal to start things off? Also, I wonder about your definition of 'offense' if they can only be used in retalliation.

4. Use of installing lasers on an Orbital Offensive Satellite is not permitted.

Uhm... okay? Lets just shoot bullets from satellites then. I can agree with the whole anti orbital nuke policy, but I think any further restrictions are sort of contradictory since anybody with the technology to install a military grade satellite system probably wants very much to implement lasers. A laserbeam, for one thing, is going to have the very least issue with re-entry though I'm sure missiles could be adapted (though this might suddenly fall into your definition of 'unconventional.')

2. Two defensive satellites are permitted per nation.
3. Use of laser or Conventional missiles permitted to take out enemy missiles.
4. Use of only conventional missiles is permitted to take out enemy ships.

So every nation may have twice as many defensive satellites as offensive, and defensive satellites may use lasers but offensive satellites may not. I think your intentions are admirable, Ambassador, but you have a very romantic view of war that doesn't make a lot of practical sense.

This proposal really shouldn't be called the 'promotion' of anything, since I do believe such was already legal. This is nothing more than a list of restrictions.

[Rutianas]

This should be changed to include more than just earth. Or, more to the point, are you seriously going to let people from Mars install orbital defense/offense systems in Earth's orbit but not let the reverse? Personally I think it should be that, "all WA nations have the right to install defense/offense systems in orbit about their planet of residence." Which is probably what you meant, but you are new here as you said, and might not have realized that many WA nations do not live on Earth.

I think I'm overworked. I didn't even notice this. Good point.

Uhm... okay? Lets just shoot bullets from satellites then. I can agree with the whole anti orbital nuke policy, but I think any further restrictions are sort of contradictory since anybody with the technology to install a military grade satellite system probably wants very much to implement lasers. A laserbeam, for one thing, is going to have the very least issue with re-entry though I'm sure missiles could be adapted (though this might suddenly fall into your definition of 'unconventional.')

Exactly. We have lasers for weapons in space. We do have bullets, but they're for use in guns. We do have ways for orbital bombardment, but we find that to be a rather horrific way of dealing with problems. So, if we can't implement lasers, we're going to use our bombardment methods. Not a pretty sight. Perhaps I should give the ambassador from Canadaina a tour of the second moon of Dreva. It was a testing ground for orbital bombardment. The landscape is no longer recognizable. Fortunately, no life existed on the moon prior to our testing.

Paula Jenner, Rutianas Ambassador

[Osgarna]

If this resolution is passed, it will give any nation in the WA the right to install orbital defense/offense systems in earth’s orbit.

Thus far Osgarna and the other nations of Kyako have placed several starships in orbit around the Earth. This proposal seems to limit the number of armed objects we can orbit to 207 (the number of nations on Kyako). Though technically only Osgarna is a member of the WA, it is assumed that we are simply representing the whole planet. We will have to object to this proposal unless satellites are defined as being unable to escape Earth orbit by their own means, thus exempting ships.

[The FallenGod]

1) So if a ship enters our waters, and says their intentions are to sail as close to a harbor and detonate these bombs, we have to let them in?

Why would they tell you that if they knew you could just shoot them before they even reached the harbor .... even so if they tell you their going to do it why not just have the coast guard block the habors and have a sniper team on a distant boat to takem out ... or hell send a heli after them or even 2 ....

btw I support this Bill just add more details to it really ....

[Philimbesi]

1) So if a ship enters our waters, and says their intentions are to sail as close to a harbor and detonate these bombs, we have to let them in?

Why would they tell you that if they knew you could just shoot them before they even reached the harbor .... even so if they tell you their going to do it why not just have the coast guard block the habors and have a sniper team on a distant boat to takem out ... or hell send a heli after them or even 2 ....

btw I support this Bill just add more details to it really ....

They wouldn't I was using sarcasm to show that the resolution is atrociously worded.

If an unidentified ship entered our waters and didn't respond to calls or was stupid enough to proceed in a threatening manor, they would meet up with on of our cutters, destroyers, or subs. Long before they became a threat.

[Gillenor]

you know somone is going to miss use
the orbital defense systems and use it to
crush rival nations

[Reagan States]

2. One offensive satellite are to be permitted per nation

Hmm. Some nations may have an entire planet or several planets under their control. So if we're only allowed one per nation, then nations with several planets are leaving some without an offensive satellite. I most certainly do not agree. The Republic has nine planetary systems under our control. We will not be told we cannot have offensive satellites in orbit for their protection.

One orbiting Earth then... since that's what MOST nations inhabit, and where the WA is based. Although it would be easy to get around this; what defines an Offensive satellite? As far as this proposal states I can have a Defensive satellite orbiting the other side of the planet.

Orbital Defensive Systems

1. Ships can only be taken out by these systems if a military ship enters your nation. National waters without stating its intentions.

Umm, that may not be a good idea. There could be technical problems on a ship that is keeping it from communcations. Granted, it's not a common situation, but if you were in that situation and on that ship, wouldn't you like to have the option of survival rather than being blasted out of the water from an orbital defense system?

WHAT!? If there's a possible terrorist vessel sailing for my shores then we need the authorization to take it out by any means necessary. Of course we'll try any means of investigation possible, but when it's within a few miles of our shores and no reports are coming confirming its intentions then the option to sink it by satellite NEEDS to be on the table. We're sorry for the people, but we've got to send the message out some way that it is unwise to sail into RRS waters without identification.

[Rutianas]

One orbiting Earth then... since that's what MOST nations inhabit, and where the WA is based. Although it would be easy to get around this; what defines an Offensive satellite? As far as this proposal states I can have a Defensive satellite orbiting the other side of the planet.

Hmm. Perhaps you shouldn't be so condescending. Ms. Jenner was only saying that there are quite a few nations that do not exist on this Earth. Think about it. There's just not enough land mass to accommodate what you refer to as most nations and their populations.

WHAT!? If there's a possible terrorist vessel sailing for my shores then we need the authorization to take it out by any means necessary. Of course we'll try any means of investigation possible, but when it's within a few miles of our shores and no reports are coming confirming its intentions then the option to sink it by satellite NEEDS to be on the table. We're sorry for the people, but we've got to send the message out some way that it is unwise to sail into RRS waters without identification.

Ms. Jenner never said that you couldn't or shouldn't take out a ship in your waters. The point she was trying to make was that if you were to blast a ship out of the water that was a merchant vessel on a mission of providing humanitarian aid to another nation, because you thought it was a possible terrorist threat, before exhausting other possibilities, the chance of you being at war with the originating nation increases exponentially. Now, say you blasted one of our ships out of the water because we were on a different frequency or not speaking the same language or had communications failure, and that ship was on a mercy mission. I assure you, the Republic would strike back.

Liam Prittan, Ambassadorial Aide, Rutianas

EDIT: Fixed typos.