The "End All" Resolutions

[Quadrimmina]

I have noticed time and time again that CoCR and FoE have been brought up as the "End All" resolutions, that ensure that everyone is equal and can do whatever the hell they want. I simply wanted a clarification/mod ruling on the extent to which CoCR and FoE protect these rights, and how far these rights are protected. It seems there is much debate regarding this.

[Enn]

They are somewhat all-encompassing. Which can be a bonus - we don't need to have umpteen resolutions to cover eqach and every issue - but also annoying - makes it more difficult to find a place to 'have your say', as it were.

But ultimately, they're exactly the same as the rest of the resolutions. You can't clash with them, and you can't cover the same ground.

Keep in mind that while voting is the 'visible' part of the GA, for non-GA players, it certainly isn't the only part. We debate over issues with as much gusto as is found in General. Just because a debate doesn't end in a resolution, doesn't mean it's wasted time.

[Quadrimmina]

They are somewhat all-encompassing. Which can be a bonus - we don't need to have umpteen resolutions to cover eqach and every issue - but also annoying - makes it more difficult to find a place to 'have your say', as it were.

But ultimately, they're exactly the same as the rest of the resolutions. You can't clash with them, and you can't cover the same ground.

Keep in mind that while voting is the 'visible' part of the GA, for non-GA players, it certainly isn't the only part. We debate over issues with as much gusto as is found in General. Just because a debate doesn't end in a resolution, doesn't mean it's wasted time.

Of course, I was just curious as to whether or not a mod ruling would be possible, because it would be nice to have some sort of definitive ruling as to how far it goes.

[Ardchoille]

This is not a ruling, because I don't think it needs a ruling. It's just a comment on such very broad, all-encompassing resolutions.

There have been proposals that focus on a particular aspect of a right that's already guaranteed in an existing resolution. Some have extended, deepened, clarified or defined or enforced a specific application of that right, and they've been accepted. Others have merely restated the right in other language, and they've been rejected as duplication.

Such decisions have been made case-by-case. There's no limit to the ingenuity of proposal writers and none of us can know what RW circumstances will develop that may drive proposals in a new direction, so this method allows players and mods more flexibility.

It may occasionally be frustrating, but I don't think I'm the only WA player who feels that finding a legislative crack to wriggle through is more fun than walking straight through a wide-open doorway.

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

I really don't think they're as "all-encompassing" as some might think. I've mocked Urgench in the past for asserting as much about his own pet resolution COCR (which explains my "magic wand" comment earlier), because we obviously disagree about the extent of the resolution's impact. I think I remember one recent draft being struck down due to duplicating/contradicting FOE, but I doubt that means it's an "end-it-all" resolution. Proposal-writers often encounter difficulties when pushing up against past resolutions, so the general rule is to take great care when doing so.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

I personally think that there are still a lot of ideas for the WA, for example, we've had a resolution raising awareness on paper money which went relatively well, and I helped the ambassador from American Capitalist this summer to extend the fight against terror with a resolution on cyberterrorism. There are a few things I think are not covered yet, such as clean air in cities, ban on aerosols and perhaps an universal recycling program which households could opt in.

[Quadrimmina]

This is not a ruling, because I don't think it needs a ruling. It's just a comment on such very broad, all-encompassing resolutions.

There have been proposals that focus on a particular aspect of a right that's already guaranteed in an existing resolution. Some have extended, deepened, clarified or defined or enforced a specific application of that right, and they've been accepted. Others have merely restated the right in other language, and they've been rejected as duplication.

Such decisions have been made case-by-case. There's no limit to the ingenuity of proposal writers and none of us can know what RW circumstances will develop that may drive proposals in a new direction, so this method allows players and mods more flexibility.

It may occasionally be frustrating, but I don't think I'm the only WA player who feels that finding a legislative crack to wriggle through is more fun than walking straight through a wide-open doorway.

Thank you Ard, I really appreciate this being sorted out. I was simply misunderstanding the situation I think.

[Unirot]

Proposal-writers often encounter difficulties when pushing up against past resolutions, so the general rule is to take great care when doing so.

When would you say it got the hardest for proposal writers to be creative back in the UN? Like what was the general number, when there was so many past resolutions that creativity began to drop?

POSTED by Unibot, as his evil puppet.

[Manticore Reborn]

POSTED by Unibot, as his evil puppet.

Uh, yeah, we kinda knew that without the hint. LOL

[Unibot]

POSTED by Unibot, as his evil puppet.

Uh, yeah, we kinda knew that without the hint. LOL

True, but there was some guy going around making mock nations of WA authors. I don't want you to get confused with him.

[Manticore Reborn]

POSTED by Unibot, as his evil puppet.

Uh, yeah, we kinda knew that without the hint. LOL

True, but there was some guy going around making mock nations of WA authors. I don't want you to get confused with him.

So then, how do we know this is the "real" Unibot and not some weirdo?

[Unibot]

POSTED by Unibot, as his evil puppet.

Uh, yeah, we kinda knew that without the hint. LOL

True, but there was some guy going around making mock nations of WA authors. I don't want you to get confused with him.

So then, how do we know this is the "real" Unibot and not some weirdo?

Because my name is "Unibot" and not "Unirot".

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

When would you say it got the hardest for proposal writers to be creative back in the UN? Like what was the general number, when there was so many past resolutions that creativity began to drop?

The number of resolutions was no matter in the UN; the UN was already repealing a new resolution every week anyway. So much of the UN's time was devoted to repealing old crap (and occasionally replacing it) that it eventually turned out that starting over with a clean slate was a very good idea.

[Ardchoille]

SInce when is it so hard to be creative? Look at your RW news broadcasts and extrapolate.

For example: I live in a coal-mining area, with both underground and open-cut extraction being used. There's a fairly low accident/fatality rate. Suppose I read about a coal-mining death or disaster somewhere else in the world and wonder naively why they can't be as safe as us.

Maybe that pushes me to write a "Safe Coalmining" proposal. "Coalmining" excludes all other types of mining, so I alter it to "Safe Mining". Fine, but we already have legislation that covers workplace safety. So I have to come up with some mining-specific safety practices. Ah, but what is "mining", grasshopper? I already know that underground and open-cut are different; but in NS, there's likely to be mining by circles of telepaths focussing on crystal arrays, or some advanced science that selects and attracts only the molecules of the desired substance, or "melts" the material below ground and reconstitutes it above, so I'll have to generalise ...

Somewhere in there I'm going to have to focus on what I'm trying to achieve; I should be looking at the categories available. Does "safe" include "safe for the neighbours"? Is this maybe an environmental proposal? If I focus on the safety of the mine workers, am I planning some constraints on companies? Do I perhaps want some way of teaching everyone to mine safely? Is it time for Another Bloody Committee? Should there be penalties for not mining safely, and should the General Fund benefit? But what about restraint of international trade ...

Hell, the problem isn't that there's not enough scope for creativity: the problem is that there's too much!

[Unibot]

When would you say it got the hardest for proposal writers to be creative back in the UN? Like what was the general number, when there was so many past resolutions that creativity began to drop?

The number of resolutions was no matter in the UN; the UN was already repealing a new resolution every week anyway. So much of the UN's time was devoted to repealing old crap (and occasionally replacing it) that it eventually turned out that starting over with a clean slate was a very good idea.

Yep. I kinda of figured that looking at Jey's career.

[Enn]

Maybe that pushes me to write a "Safe Coalmining" proposal. "Coalmining" excludes all other types of mining, so I alter it to "Safe Mining". Fine, but we already have legislation that covers workplace safety. So I have to come up with some mining-specific safety practices. Ah, but what is "mining", grasshopper? I already know that underground and open-cut are different; but in NS, there's likely to be mining by circles of telepaths focussing on crystal arrays, or some advanced science that selects and attracts only the molecules of the desired substance, or "melts" the material below ground and reconstitutes it above, so I'll have to generalise ...

Or you can start out at the opposite end. My Drug Trafficking Act started out as an attempt to write something in the Drug category. As it developed, it moved through different categories and narrowed greatly, eventually ending up as International Security, and being about (largely) making sure customs organisations let each other know what drugs are legal in which nation.

[Ardchoille]

Or you can start out at the opposite end. My Drug Trafficking Act started out as an attempt to write something in the Drug category. As it developed, it moved through different categories and narrowed greatly, eventually ending up as International Security, and being about (largely) making sure customs organisations let each other know what drugs are legal in which nation.

'Zackly. What are we all sitting around here for? Go Forth and Legislate!

[Unibot]

'Zackly. What are we all sitting around here for? Go Forth and Legislate!

Can't -- I'm awaiting a ruling from one of those mod fellas.

[Urgench]

I really don't think they're as "all-encompassing" as some might think. I've mocked Urgench in the past for asserting as much about his own pet resolution COCR (which explains my "magic wand" comment earlier), because we obviously disagree about the extent of the resolution's impact. I think I remember one recent draft being struck down due to duplicating/contradicting FOE, but I doubt that means it's an "end-it-all" resolution. Proposal-writers often encounter difficulties when pushing up against past resolutions, so the general rule is to take great care when doing so.

OOC, Oh Kenny, you know I've never asserted any such thing about the CoCR, and the Urgenchi have supported lots of HR resolutions which dealt with issues which either the CoCR could never have dealt with (and was never intended to) or would have if I could have made it but couldn't (so to speak) indeed I have always been pretty clear about the limit of the CoCR's remit and impact.

If it seems that I tend to point out how HR proposals duplicate or conflict with the CoCR a lot, that's a symptom of two things, firstly my decreased WA involvement recently has made it so that I tend only to post in threads where I know what I'm talking about, I do know the CoCR pretty well I spent many months carefully choosing every word in it (Edit including carefully and only slightly re-jigging the wording you contributed ), and so I post about it more frequently than other things. Secondly it's the only resolution I have ever managed to get passed. This means that explaining how it works, defending it, etc will look like something I do a lot, when in fact I don't do this any more frequently than other active resolution writers defend or explain their resolutions.

I know this is a current bug bear of yours but there's no need to misrepresent me.

[Ardchoille]

OOC, Oh Kenny, you know I've never asserted any such thing about the CoCR <snip>
I know this is a current bug bear of yours but there's no need to misrepresent me.

*slips a custard pie to Urgench*

*slips a blueberry pie to Kenny*

*waits*