[DRAFT] Responsibilities of Airspace

[Unibot]

Eh, let's try it again... insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting a different result.. but...

Responsibilities of Airspace
Category: Environmental | Area of Effect: All Business

The World Assembly abroad,

Acknowledging that in numerous cases, a global airspace is not owned exclusively by one member-nation, but shared by multiple nations with sovereign airspaces,

Understanding that emissions do not respect the borders of sovereign airspace,

Noting that by engaging in industrial practices that can disturb the environment, comes certain responsibilities that need to be maintained by all member-nations that share an airspace,

Defining :
(a) a “sovereign airspace” as the volume of atmosphere that is within the planar area of a nation, and below the edge of where the particular celestial body’s atmosphere is understood to be the specific position where a craft would have to travel faster than orbital velocity in order to receive sufficient aerodynamic lift from the atmosphere to support itself,
(b) a “global airspace” as a collection of interconnected sovereign airspaces,

Hereby:

1. Declares that the quantity and variety of industrial emissions which are regularly produced in one sovereign airspace cannot be directly detrimental to the health and well-being of citizens of nations who share the global airspace with said nation;

2. Forbids member-nations from relocating or reassigning said regular production of industrial emissions to any other nation of the same global airspace, or a non-member-nation of a different global airspace that includes the sovereign airspace of a nation whose citizens’ health and well-being would be threatened by said emissions;

3. Demands that a member-nation has the responsibility to provide appropriate amounts of financial compensation to the victims in foreign airspaces who sustain serve bodily harm or discomfort from industrial emission accidents that manifest from said member-nation;

4. Noting that at the discretion of the transgressing member-nation, the involved commercial parties may be the source of said reparation;

5. Requires a member-nation to promptly report and notify all relevant environmental organizations of the World Assembly and the nations that they share a global airspace with the relevant details of an industrial emission accident that has occurred in said member-nation following the passage of this legislation;

[Manticore Reborn]

Wowza.....it is much too late to digest that much. We will defer until the honorable ambassador from Grays Harbor has made there opinion on this proposal known.

[Quadrimmina]

The Republic of Quadrimmina supports this measure pending debates and revisions. However, we would like to request an addition dealing with Air Traffic Control standards.

[Sunfire Forge]

An Air Traffic Control resolution would be a completely different thing. I would support one, simply because I don't want my laser defense systems firing on civilian planes. But that's a different discussion.

Back on topic: This...looks like a "make sure your industrial pollution doesn't travel into my nation's air and pollute it too" resolution. That I have to oppose. Sunfire Forge's lack of environmental restrictions provides a great place for heavy industry. Because of this, industrial jobs are everywhere. Our high-paying jobs in Automobile Manufacturing and Arms Manufacturing keep the economy afloat. An environmental protection resolution would hurt the companies that provide these jobs. That gets rid of some of the jobs, thus harming our economy.

[The Ainocran Embassy]

No

How can you prove that nation A is the source of any pollutants?

simple

You can't

so nation C get polluted air and blames nation a.
nations b and d also release the same pollutants into the air.

Opposed

[Maltropia]

This act seems to be protecting citizen rights, as well as national, and doesn't seem to be in any way bad. As with all of the many Unibotian proposals, this one has the backing of the Maltropian Delegacy.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Ms. Harper questions the actual effectiveness of the resolution because unless one lives in SimCity pollution can travel for miles without regard to territorial boundaries.

[Murray the Evil Skull]

Its all about numbers mortal...all the proposal writer cares about is writing and passing legilsation... it doesent matter if it is practical or useless.

[Embolalia]

No

How can you prove that nation A is the source of any pollutants?

simple

You can't

so nation C get polluted air and blames nation a.
nations b and d also release the same pollutants into the air.

Opposed

It's actually pretty easy, with modern technology, to find the source of pollution. Pollutants act in predictable ways, and wind currents are generally known. Perhaps you wouldn't be able to refine it down to an individual factory beyond a reasonable doubt, but a whole nation would absolutely be doable. And if the source nation is accounting for which factories are giving off how much of what (not required by this act; perhaps it should be?), it becomes very simple indeed to trace the pollutants. (OOC: Ohio-based energy company Cinergy has been sued by the states of New York {Turns out Spitzer did something else besides hookers}, Connecticut, and I believe Massachusetts, as well as the Canadian province of Ontario, for pollutants carried by prevailing winds. All of them were able to track pollutants back to Cinergy plants.)

[The Ainocran Embassy]

Predictable patterns?

Then why is the weather man never right?

What about nations with low technology level?

Could I be fined for breaking wind near your border if I purposely aimed it in your general direction?

While it is a high minded Idea it is simply not practical.

[Manticore Reborn]

While it is a high minded Idea it is simply not practical.

While we regret the act, we must state we are in agreement with the ambassador from the Ainocran Embassy.

[Unibot]

Its all about numbers mortal...all the proposal writer cares about is writing and passing legilsation... it doesent matter if it is practical or useless.

Eduard nods, "I like this guy..".

[Embolalia]

Predictable patterns?

Then why is the weather man never right?

You're making the classic macro v. micro mistake. Weathermen try to predict the fluctuations in a weather pattern from day to day. There's really no way to do this down to a precise, 100% accurate prediction. (Although, people tend only to notice when the weatherman is wrong, but never when he is right.) However, an expert in the field can very easily find accurate long-term trends in winds and weather. (OOC: I might point out El Niño as an example.) And even I, a completely untrained layman, can figure out that, since the wind around here generally comes out of the west, pollutants from the west will probably be carried here.

What about nations with low technology level?

At least in my timeline, knowledge of prevailing winds came far before any sort of factories. While this isn't enough to narrow down to a specific factory, it's pretty much trivial to figure out that, if your air quality is poorer than it ought to be given your own industrial status, and your prevailing winds come from the west, the country to your west is probably to blame.

Could I be fined for breaking wind near your border if I purposely aimed it in your general direction?

Depends on just how potent your, eh, emissions are. I'm pretty sure it has to be detrimental to the health of the other nation's citizens to count...

[The Ainocran Embassy]

While it is a high minded Idea it is simply not practical.

While we regret the act, we must state we are in agreement with the ambassador from the Ainocran Embassy.

*grins* Check your tea again

Depends on just how potent your, eh, emissions are. I'm pretty sure it has to be detrimental to the health of the other nation's citizens to count...

I can kill small children at twelve paces

[Krioval]

You're making the classic macro v. micro mistake. Weathermen try to predict the fluctuations in a weather pattern from day to day. There's really no way to do this down to a precise, 100% accurate prediction. (Although, people tend only to notice when the weatherman is wrong, but never when he is right.) However, an expert in the field can very easily find accurate long-term trends in winds and weather. (OOC: I might point out El Niño as an example.) And even I, a completely untrained layman, can figure out that, since the wind around here generally comes out of the west, pollutants from the west will probably be carried here.

Very easily? Even with advanced technology, this is not a trivial thing to do. Never mind that this legislation effectively outlaws air travel, most industrial activity, and war.

At least in my timeline, knowledge of prevailing winds came far before any sort of factories. While this isn't enough to narrow down to a specific factory, it's pretty much trivial to figure out that, if your air quality is poorer than it ought to be given your own industrial status, and your prevailing winds come from the west, the country to your west is probably to blame.

And if your assumptions are incorrect? What if the problem is a nation further to the west, or if the wind comes slightly from the northwest or southwest, or if nations are incorrectly guessing that their own industrial outputs are less polluting than they actually are? This entire proposal, despite the overlawyered language, leaves a great deal to guesswork, and it actively encourages ridiculous international finger-pointing.

Also, Kriovaller airspace extends beyond the definition included in this proposal - we count as "ours" any airspace above our territorial waters and the land and territorial waters belonging to any of our protectorates.

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

[Murray the Evil Skull]

Its all about numbers mortal...all the proposal writer cares about is writing and passing legilsation... it doesent matter if it is practical or useless.

Eduard nods, "I like this guy..".

I wasn't being complementary, Mortal. I guess sarcasm and derision are things people from your nation don't understand. This proposal is as useful as teets on a wild boar hog.

[Unibot]

Its all about numbers mortal...all the proposal writer cares about is writing and passing legilsation... it doesent matter if it is practical or useless.

Eduard nods, "I like this guy..".

I wasn't being complementary, Mortal. I guess sarcasm and derision are things people from your nation don't understand. This proposal is as useful as teets on a wild boar hog.

Eduard frowned, " 'Mortal' would suggests that I'm applicable for mortality. No? It doesn't matter if I die or not because my existence is scattered across the fourth dimension... so I'll practically attend my own funeral.. someday...".

[Darenjo]

You're making the classic macro v. micro mistake. Weathermen try to predict the fluctuations in a weather pattern from day to day. There's really no way to do this down to a precise, 100% accurate prediction. (Although, people tend only to notice when the weatherman is wrong, but never when he is right.) However, an expert in the field can very easily find accurate long-term trends in winds and weather. (OOC: I might point out El Niño as an example.) And even I, a completely untrained layman, can figure out that, since the wind around here generally comes out of the west, pollutants from the west will probably be carried here.

Very easily? Even with advanced technology, this is not a trivial thing to do. Never mind that this legislation effectively outlaws air travel, most industrial activity, and war.

At least in my timeline, knowledge of prevailing winds came far before any sort of factories. While this isn't enough to narrow down to a specific factory, it's pretty much trivial to figure out that, if your air quality is poorer than it ought to be given your own industrial status, and your prevailing winds come from the west, the country to your west is probably to blame.

And if your assumptions are incorrect? What if the problem is a nation further to the west, or if the wind comes slightly from the northwest or southwest, or if nations are incorrectly guessing that their own industrial outputs are less polluting than they actually are? This entire proposal, despite the overlawyered language, leaves a great deal to guesswork, and it actively encourages ridiculous international finger-pointing.

Also, Kriovaller airspace extends beyond the definition included in this proposal - we count as "ours" any airspace above our territorial waters and the land and territorial waters belonging to any of our protectorates.

Henrik Søgård
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval

Ummm...i think that airspace above territorial waters counts as yours. And if your protectorates/puppets "signed over" the rights of their airspace to you, then i doubt that the WA would suddenly start yelling and screaming at you.

Other than that, i do have to wonder about the point already brought up ("your pollution can't be in my nation or else you get fined"). I don't get why a nation should be punished because of air currents.

Also, since when can the WA dictate what a non-WA state can and cannot do (the clause that makes it illegal for industries who violate this proposal to be re-located to a non-WA state)?

I appreciate the aim of this proposal, but i would have to oppose it in its current form.