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Navigable Streams and Waterways Act

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Grasmere
Diplomat
 
Posts: 914
Founded: Jul 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Navigable Streams and Waterways Act

Postby Grasmere » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:49 pm

OOC: I was confused about the category on this one, so if anyone knows which one is the most applicable, please let me know.

The World Assembly,

RECOGNIZING that certain streams and waterways are under the jurisdiction of two or more countries

DEFINES a "Navigable Stream or Waterway" as a landlocked body of water within the borders of two of more nations OR a body of water that has water claims from two or more countries with no international waters seperating them at any point

REALIZING that insufficient legislation governing these waterways leads to smuggling of illegal materials, such as the Immigrant Oil Incident, in which Balcandoran Immigrants stole and exported large amounts of resources illegaly to foreign nations.

NOTING that this legislation does not apply to international waters or ships with proper documentation to travel to a certain country

CLARIFYING that nations can still set size maximums for watercraft travel in these streams/waterways

Hereby:

MANDATES nations to enforce laws that allow personal/recreational watercraft and other non-commercial or non-military watercraft to cross into waters controlled by another nation, providing they do not make contact with any other water vessel or dock on the shore of that nation.

REQUIRES nations to enforce these laws and set aside funding for units, such as a coast guard or similar, to help stop the smuggling of illegal goods

Any comments/criticism or things I should add would be appreciated. This is my first resolution so I welcome any criticism

MANDATES that ships
Last edited by Grasmere on Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

Ah hah hah, lies my friend. What brought the Germans forward to almost pure domination of europe? Their "pathetic" technologies. We base many of our attacks and strategies upon WWII and WWI ways of fighting.

Well congrats then. Your armies will last about an hour in a modern battlefield.

MAKE LOVE LOUDLY
MAKE WAR SILENTLY

Osthian Peace Conference: Won
Jazanian Conflict:Lost
Assasination of Osthian Empress:
Lost
Yukodian war of independence: Won
Polarex-Zonolian War: Withdrew
Second Grasmeran Civil War: Won

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The Ainocran Embassy
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Posts: 289
Founded: Jul 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ainocran Embassy » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:58 pm

Opposed

We will deal with our territorial waters as we see fit. Nice idea though
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
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Unibot
Senator
 
Posts: 4292
Founded: May 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Unibot » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:13 pm

Nautical Pilotage Act? GA#104? See sig for details.
Last edited by Unibot on Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grasmere
Diplomat
 
Posts: 914
Founded: Jul 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Grasmere » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:45 pm

Unibot wrote:Nautical Pilotage Act? GA#104? See sig for details.


I guess, but I am specifically referring to bodies of water landlocked and restrictions on what citizens of other nations can do when they are in the waters of other nations. But your resolution does cover parts of mine.

Ah hah hah, lies my friend. What brought the Germans forward to almost pure domination of europe? Their "pathetic" technologies. We base many of our attacks and strategies upon WWII and WWI ways of fighting.

Well congrats then. Your armies will last about an hour in a modern battlefield.

MAKE LOVE LOUDLY
MAKE WAR SILENTLY

Osthian Peace Conference: Won
Jazanian Conflict:Lost
Assasination of Osthian Empress:
Lost
Yukodian war of independence: Won
Polarex-Zonolian War: Withdrew
Second Grasmeran Civil War: Won

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Holy Roman Confederate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 894
Founded: Aug 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Roman Confederate » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:17 pm

Land locked waters are a nations property as they fall within territorial borders. An internal matter for each nation. Simple as that.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78531
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79073&p=3753933#p3753933

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Vitoriasa
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Posts: 272
Founded: Aug 17, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Vitoriasa » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:33 pm

I think this can be seen as a purely national issue, or one between 1 or 2 nations, but not international.
It's up to each nation to set aside it's laws for nautical navigation of its' waterways.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:06 pm

Unibot wrote:Nautical Pilotage Act? GA#104? See sig for details.

Don't see how that has anything to do with what this proposal would be doing.

Also, to people already muttering out 'national sovereignty', you make no sense. This proposal talks about waterways within the borders of multiple nations. That's by definition international.

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Grasmere
Diplomat
 
Posts: 914
Founded: Jul 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Grasmere » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:09 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Unibot wrote:Nautical Pilotage Act? GA#104? See sig for details.

Don't see how that has anything to do with what this proposal would be doing.

Also, to people already muttering out 'national sovereignty', you make no sense. This proposal talks about waterways within the borders of multiple nations. That's by definition international.


Yes, although many of these are owned by only two nations, there are rare cases where waterways can be shared by multiple countries.

Ah hah hah, lies my friend. What brought the Germans forward to almost pure domination of europe? Their "pathetic" technologies. We base many of our attacks and strategies upon WWII and WWI ways of fighting.

Well congrats then. Your armies will last about an hour in a modern battlefield.

MAKE LOVE LOUDLY
MAKE WAR SILENTLY

Osthian Peace Conference: Won
Jazanian Conflict:Lost
Assasination of Osthian Empress:
Lost
Yukodian war of independence: Won
Polarex-Zonolian War: Withdrew
Second Grasmeran Civil War: Won

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Holy Roman Confederate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 894
Founded: Aug 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Roman Confederate » Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:44 am

If a waterway is shared by multiple nations and is divided by clear borders then each nations laws would apply on their own side of said border. I see no reason for the WA to involve ourselves in that.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78531
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79073&p=3753933#p3753933

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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:46 am

Holy Roman Confederate wrote:If a waterway is shared by multiple nations and is divided by clear borders then each nations laws would apply on their own side of said border. I see no reason for the WA to involve ourselves in that.

You're also not seeing what this proposal does. It allows civilian ships to cross over invisible borders during recreation, so that they aren't arrested for illegally entering a nation. Unless you happen to have a fence clearly dividing your water borders (which would probably be a violation of WA environmental laws), the common sailer is vulnerable to unfair laws.

This proposal isn't great, or even good, but the idea is there and I do happen to think it's worth our time.
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Mikedor
Minister
 
Posts: 2375
Founded: Apr 24, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mikedor » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:49 am

DEFINES a "Navigable Stream or Waterway" as a landlocked body of water within the borders of two of more nations OR a body of water that has water claims from two or more countries with no international waters seperating them at any point


'Captain! We're aground!'
'But the charts showed this as WA defined navigable!'
'Sir, it's a puddle on the northern border.'
'Goddammit! It says it's navigable, it's a landlocked body of water within the borders of two nations!'
'Sir, you can't sail a supertanker on a puddle.'
Welcome to 1938.

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Sucrati
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Founded: Jun 05, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sucrati » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:55 am

Mandating others to go into other countries, no matter what precautions is just asking for a hot headed... country to declare war.
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Charlotte Ryberg
The Muse of the Westcountry
 
Posts: 15007
Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:03 am

It's a nice idea, but the Law of the Sea should take care of waters under no national territory. What about ensuring the safe passage on essential shipping canals?

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Glen-Rhodes
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Posts: 9027
Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:05 am

Charlotte Ryberg wrote:... but the Law of the Sea should take care of waters under no national territory.

The proposal isn't about non-territorial waters; you can travel through those freely already.

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Northern Itasca
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 200
Founded: Aug 27, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Northern Itasca » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:09 am

As the Representative of Northern Itasca I feel that this legislation would be beneficial for many nations throughout the world. I do not feel as though it would impede on the sovereignty of any nation as it is only applied civilian and recreational vessels. As for the argument that it may only apply to 2 nations, which as previously stated still makes it international by definition. Think rivers. Not only lakes, bays, seas, etc. Are there not many rivers throughout the World than share borders with many different nations? If this proposal made it to a vote I would certainly vote for it on behalf of people of The Democratic Republic of Northern Itasca.
Economic Left/Right: 7.63
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Serrland
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11968
Founded: Sep 30, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Serrland » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:20 pm

MANDATES nations to enforce laws that allow ships and other non-commercial watercraft to cross into waters controlled by another nation, providing they do not make contact with any other water vessel or dock on the shore of that nation.


Does the above mean that a submarine from a nation with less-than-amicable relations with Serrland would be allowed to travel up a river from a neighboring state into Serrland without repercussions? There seems to be nothing in here to address either a) subamarine vehicles or b) military vessels, and the Serri delegation sees that as a major flaw in this proposal.

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Grasmere
Diplomat
 
Posts: 914
Founded: Jul 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Grasmere » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:25 pm

Serrland wrote:
MANDATES nations to enforce laws that allow ships and other non-commercial watercraft to cross into waters controlled by another nation, providing they do not make contact with any other water vessel or dock on the shore of that nation.


Does the above mean that a submarine from a nation with less-than-amicable relations with Serrland would be allowed to travel up a river from a neighboring state into Serrland without repercussions? There seems to be nothing in here to address either a) subamarine vehicles or b) military vessels, and the Serri delegation sees that as a major flaw in this proposal.


Your right, I don't know how to say it, like a personal/recreational craft. I'll edit that.

Ah hah hah, lies my friend. What brought the Germans forward to almost pure domination of europe? Their "pathetic" technologies. We base many of our attacks and strategies upon WWII and WWI ways of fighting.

Well congrats then. Your armies will last about an hour in a modern battlefield.

MAKE LOVE LOUDLY
MAKE WAR SILENTLY

Osthian Peace Conference: Won
Jazanian Conflict:Lost
Assasination of Osthian Empress:
Lost
Yukodian war of independence: Won
Polarex-Zonolian War: Withdrew
Second Grasmeran Civil War: Won

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Enn
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1228
Founded: Jan 26, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Enn » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:30 pm

Grasmere wrote:
Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Unibot wrote:Nautical Pilotage Act? GA#104? See sig for details.

Don't see how that has anything to do with what this proposal would be doing.

Also, to people already muttering out 'national sovereignty', you make no sense. This proposal talks about waterways within the borders of multiple nations. That's by definition international.


Yes, although many of these are owned by only two nations, there are rare cases where waterways can be shared by multiple countries.

OOC: The Nile and Lake Victoria.
If I can come up with those off the top of my head from the RW, it's a fairly certain thing they exist in numbers within NS.
I know what gay science is.
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Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21281
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:19 am

Grasmere wrote:OOC: I was confused about the category on this one, so if anyone knows which one is the most applicable, please let me know.

The World Assembly,

RECOGNIZING that certain streams and waterways are under the jurisdiction of two or more countries

DEFINES a "Navigable Stream or Waterway" as a landlocked body of water within the borders of two of more nations OR a body of water that has water claims from two or more countries with no international waters seperating them at any point

REALIZING that insufficient legislation governing these waterways leads to smuggling of illegal materials, such as the Immigrant Oil Incident, in which Balcandoran Immigrants stole and exported large amounts of resources illegaly to foreign nations.

NOTING that this legislation does not apply to international waters or ships with proper documentation to travel to a certain country

Hereby:

MANDATES nations to enforce laws that allow personal/recreational watercraft and other non-commercial or non-military watercraft to cross into waters controlled by another nation, providing they do not make contact with any other water vessel or dock on the shore of that nation.

REQUIRES nations to enforce these laws and set aside funding for units, such as a coast guard or similar, to help stop the smuggling of illegal goods

Any comments/criticism or things I should add would be appreciated. This is my first resolution so I welcome any criticism

MANDATES that ships

1. Decide on the category first, and then write the proposal to fit it. Allowing passage for (people in) personal/recreational watercraft would be 'Human Rights', but anti-smuggling measures would probably be 'Moral Decency' instead, so you might need to focus more closely on one or the other of these aspects and make the other one clearly subordinate to that.
2. You can't mention details such as "the Immigrant Oil Incident, in which Balcandoran Immigrants stole and exported large amounts of resources illegaly to foreign nations", because that would make the proposal illegal for 'Branding'. (You have read the rules about writing proposals, right?)
3. Please clarify that nations can still impose upper limits on the sizes & speeds of the vessels that are allowed access to any particular waters, and enforce restrictions for environmental & conservation reasons, as long as those rules apply just as much to watercraft owned by their own people as they do to foreigners' vessels. Yes?
Last edited by Bears Armed on Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Grasmere
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Posts: 914
Founded: Jul 10, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Grasmere » Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:08 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Grasmere wrote:OOC: I was confused about the category on this one, so if anyone knows which one is the most applicable, please let me know.

The World Assembly,

RECOGNIZING that certain streams and waterways are under the jurisdiction of two or more countries

DEFINES a "Navigable Stream or Waterway" as a landlocked body of water within the borders of two of more nations OR a body of water that has water claims from two or more countries with no international waters seperating them at any point

REALIZING that insufficient legislation governing these waterways leads to smuggling of illegal materials, such as the Immigrant Oil Incident, in which Balcandoran Immigrants stole and exported large amounts of resources illegaly to foreign nations.

NOTING that this legislation does not apply to international waters or ships with proper documentation to travel to a certain country

Hereby:

MANDATES nations to enforce laws that allow personal/recreational watercraft and other non-commercial or non-military watercraft to cross into waters controlled by another nation, providing they do not make contact with any other water vessel or dock on the shore of that nation.

REQUIRES nations to enforce these laws and set aside funding for units, such as a coast guard or similar, to help stop the smuggling of illegal goods

Any comments/criticism or things I should add would be appreciated. This is my first resolution so I welcome any criticism

MANDATES that ships

1. Decide on the category first, and then write the proposal to fit it. Allowing passage for (people in) personal/recreational watercraft would be 'Human Rights', but anti-smuggling measures would probably be 'Moral Decency' instead, so you might need to focus more closely on one or the other of these aspects and make the other one clearly subordinate to that.
2. You can't mention details such as "the Immigrant Oil Incident, in which Balcandoran Immigrants stole and exported large amounts of resources illegaly to foreign nations", because that would make the proposal illegal for 'Branding'. (You have read the rules about writing proposals, right?)
3. Please clarify that nations can still impose upper limits on the sizes & speeds of the vessels that are allowed access to any particular waters, and enforce restrictions for environmental & conservation reasons, as long as those rules apply just as much to watercraft owned by their own people as they do to foreigners' vessels. Yes?


I didn't think it was too much branding because I am not saying they sponsor it in any way, I am just using an example of RP to prove the point. But I can edit it out.

Ah hah hah, lies my friend. What brought the Germans forward to almost pure domination of europe? Their "pathetic" technologies. We base many of our attacks and strategies upon WWII and WWI ways of fighting.

Well congrats then. Your armies will last about an hour in a modern battlefield.

MAKE LOVE LOUDLY
MAKE WAR SILENTLY

Osthian Peace Conference: Won
Jazanian Conflict:Lost
Assasination of Osthian Empress:
Lost
Yukodian war of independence: Won
Polarex-Zonolian War: Withdrew
Second Grasmeran Civil War: Won

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Enn
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1228
Founded: Jan 26, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Enn » Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:29 pm

Bears Armed wrote:1. Decide on the category first, and then write the proposal to fit it. Allowing passage for (people in) personal/recreational watercraft would be 'Human Rights', but anti-smuggling measures would probably be 'Moral Decency' instead, so you might need to focus more closely on one or the other of these aspects and make the other one clearly subordinate to that.

Anti-smuggling could also come under 'International Security' if it's about strengthening policing powers or the like, or sharing information between nations. Drug Trafficking Act ended up there for that reason.

Angelo Lanerik,
Acting WA Ambassador for Enn
I know what gay science is.
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The Ainocran Embassy
Envoy
 
Posts: 289
Founded: Jul 26, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ainocran Embassy » Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:00 pm

would this also cover the drainage ditch we dug that leads into unibot? it's big enough for kids to float on inner tubes. I promise that it isn't raw sewage :P
really
"From far, from eve and morning and yon twelve-winded sky, the stuff of life to knit blew hither: here am I. ...Now--for a breath I tarry nor yet disperse apart--take my hand quick and tell me, what have you in your heart." --Roger Zelazny
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