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Self-Defense for all!

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

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Do you support having the right to defend yourselves?

1. Yes
60
78%
2. No
17
22%
 
Total votes : 77

User avatar
Casta Nal
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1497
Founded: Aug 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Casta Nal » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:46 am

What's an RL
EnragedMaldivians wrote:I hereby dub thee Wage-Slave No.187878XCZ.

An FT Fenda.
My Nation does not reflect my views.

User avatar
Sanctaria
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7904
Founded: Sep 12, 2008
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sanctaria » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:47 am

It means real life. In your proposals, you can't refer to anything that's real life.
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Ideological Bulwark #258

Dr. Bethany Greer ORD, Sanctarian Ambassador to the World Assembly
Author of:
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Holy Roman Confederate
Diplomat
 
Posts: 894
Founded: Aug 01, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Holy Roman Confederate » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:57 am

Do you understand that were this to pass, which we believe will never happen, you would be putting the equipment needed into the hands of the populace to overthrow your government and endanger surrounding nations in your region? This simple act would serve as the means to destabilize multiple governments, which would lead to you requesting the WA send in a peacekeeping force. In our eyes it's much easier to just say no at the lowest level instead of letting this get very out of hand.
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=78531
http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79073&p=3753933#p3753933

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Grays Harbor
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18566
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:23 am

Casta Nal wrote:The General Assembly can a postal union and water rights but not weapon rights so an honest guy who is responsible keep his family safe from gangsters!


See, this is where you are making your mistake. The Postal Union is about the international delivery of mail. Water rights is about international access to water. Gun rights is a national issue. We can't expect you will see the distinction there, but it is there nontheless.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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User avatar
Meekinos
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Sep 10, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Meekinos » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:42 pm

Casta Nal wrote:Here it is folkS:
Casta Nal and others would like assert the belif in self-defense.

Before you assert anything, try running your twaddle through a spell-checker first.

Casta Nal wrote:PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLY NATIONS NEED TO HAVE PROTECTION FROM CRIMINALS, ANIMAL ATTACKS, ZOMBIES, INVADERS, AND OTHER THINGS WHICH WOULD TRY TO KILL OR DO EVIL TO THEM.

That's why nations may decide to have a military.

Oh and cap lock is not needed to get your point across. You appear boorish by using it.

And now for the fun part, I'm going to tear this pathetic piece of legislation to pieces.

Casta Nal wrote:1. People would be allowed own ballistic weapons (guns, cannons, things that go BOOM!), melee weapons,martial arts, magic (depends on nation),other weapons, and defense items. The people may not own doomsday devicces and nukes or other heavy weaponry.

You contradicted yourself right in the first line. Not at all inspiring. Cannons typically qualify as 'heavy weaponry' unless you are referring to the hand-cannons, (ooc: such as the ones used by the Malmuks), in which case that would be similar to an early model of a gun. Further, ballistic weapons can also include crossbows, longbows, shortbows, etc.

Your definition is too vague, especially with the inclusion the infantile phase of "things that go BOOM!". There are plenty of things that go "boom" (TNT, a mixture of chlorine and bleach), including the doomsday devices that are named as prohibited. Another contradiction.

How does martial arts fit into this? Unless your proposal is referring to those which use weapons, such as Eskrima, Fencing, Gatka, Kendo and Kyūdō. But even then, that would fall under melee weapon. And how can anyone "own" a martial art? It doesn't make any logical sense. One can possess knowledge and proficiency but cannot actually own it, just as with magic. Your language makes no sense in relation to these items.

Casta Nal wrote:2.The Goverments of the World Assembly will mandate intense screening, heavy regulations,safety checks, licenses, screening, tests, and training.

Oh good, so we can make those so impossible that no one could acquire the weapons in the first place. Brilliant! No one would ever be able to pass the test or any of the regulations associated with the ownership of various weapons, thus completely defeating the intent of this shoddy legislation.

Of course, on the other hand, the government can mandate all this but at the same time ignore its own laws.

Bribery also comes to mind. There is nothing stopping people from bribing the right officials to get what they want.

Casta Nal wrote:3.The people would be charged to use them responibly, may carry them open, or conclealed.

Assuming of course they can even pass the test in the first place.

Casta Nal wrote:4.Weapons may be taken away if owner is found to be dangerous or not following the law.

How do you plan to take away martial arts or magic? See, your proposal fails because the opening clause cannot stand up to proper scrutiny.

Casta Nal wrote:5.It is right to defend yourself and others agianst aggressors in a reasonable matter using reasonable force after attempting to avoid using force. Conduct of the individual will be reviewed by a court of law as correct if not the owner will face minor charges to complete revoking of all weapons.

What is "reasonable force"? Your proposal does not define it nor does it set out a basic ground work for what is reasonable.

Your grammar continues to be utterly atrocious.

Casta Nal wrote:6.It is not madatory to own weapons, you may or may not. It is up to you the individual person.

Ugh, contradictory. Especially since your proposal is considering magic and martial arts as weapons. If someone knows martial arts then by your definition they then "own it", so it makes this contradictory. Your proposal is built on extremely faulty logic.

Casta Nal wrote:7. Illegal activity with these weapons will result in heavy punishment. Using them for hunting when not allowed by a nation or in un-authorised entertainment usage will result in serious penalites. Weapons will not be used for crime or rebellion if so or suspected of using them for illegal purposes they are siezed permanetly or until you proven innocent or pardoned.

Proof-reading before you post is a bonus. It prevents long, run-on sentences. The longer the sentence you write, the more the grammar and spelling decays. Brevity would greatly benefit you until you have mastered the art of coherently explaining yourself.

Casta Nal wrote:8. All weapons must be bought from an apporved legit vendor or traded/bought form another owner in a overwatched trade. No black market allowed any weapon that is unregistared or aquired in an illegal way is taken and never returned other punishments might come along too.

Just because this says a black market is not allowed doesn't mean a black market won't exist. In fact, it provides no deterrence to the existence of a black market. This whole proposal is providing a frame work for a black market. By creating a environment in which acquisition is nearly impossible; a prohibition-like environment, you are fostering ideal conditions for a black market. There will always be demand. People will find a way around laws and regulations they disagree with, especially those which are shoddily composed.

Casta Nal wrote:Comment and discuss it with me. I would like to see this as a resolution and I need some help. It is in progress and needs major changes. Advice on what to allow and what not to allow as weapons too.

I frankly hope this never sees the light of day. Fortunately the ambassadors of this honourable body have enough collective common sense to block this twaddle.
Last edited by Meekinos on Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ambassador Gavriil Floros
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The paranoid, isolationist, xenophobic capitalists.

User avatar
Grays Harbor
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18566
Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:49 pm

Meekinos wrote:
Casta Nal wrote:Here it is folkS:
Casta Nal and others would like assert the belif in self-defense.

Before you assert anything, try running your twaddle through a spell-checker first.

Casta Nal wrote:PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLY NATIONS NEED TO HAVE PROTECTION FROM CRIMINALS, ANIMAL ATTACKS, ZOMBIES, INVADERS, AND OTHER THINGS WHICH WOULD TRY TO KILL OR DO EVIL TO THEM.

That's why nations may decide to have a military.

Oh and cap lock is not needed to get your point across. You appear boorish by using it.

And now for the fun part, I'm going to tear this pathetic piece of legislation to pieces.

Casta Nal wrote:1. People would be allowed own ballistic weapons (guns, cannons, things that go BOOM!), melee weapons,martial arts, magic (depends on nation),other weapons, and defense items. The people may not own doomsday devicces and nukes or other heavy weaponry.

You contradicted yourself right in the first line. Not at all inspiring. Cannons typically qualify as 'heavy weaponry' unless you are referring to the hand-cannons, (ooc: such as the ones used by the Malmuks), in which case that would be similar to an early model of a gun. Further, ballistic weapons can also include crossbows, longbows, shortbows, etc.

Your definition is too vague, especially with the inclusion the infantile phase of "things that go BOOM!". There are plenty of things that go "boom" (TNT, a mixture of chlorine and bleach), including the doomsday devices that are named as prohibited. Another contradiction.

How does martial arts fit into this? Unless your proposal is referring to those which use weapons, such as Eskrima, Fencing, Gatka, Kendo and Kyūdō. But even then, that would fall under melee weapon. And how can anyone "own" a martial art? It doesn't make any logical sense. One can possess knowledge and proficiency but cannot actually own it, just as with magic. Your language makes no sense in relation to these items.

Casta Nal wrote:2.The Goverments of the World Assembly will mandate intense screening, heavy regulations,safety checks, licenses, screening, tests, and training.

Oh good, so we can make those so impossible that no one could acquire the weapons in the first place. Brilliant! No one would ever be able to pass the test or any of the regulations associated with the ownership of various weapons, thus completely defeating the intent of this shoddy legislation.

Of course, on the other hand, the government can mandate all this but at the same time ignore its own laws.

Bribery also comes to mind. There is nothing stopping people from bribing the right officials to get what they want.

Casta Nal wrote:3.The people would be charged to use them responibly, may carry them open, or conclealed.

Assuming of course they can even pass the test in the first place.

Casta Nal wrote:4.Weapons may be taken away if owner is found to be dangerous or not following the law.

How do you plan to take away martial arts or magic? See, your proposal fails because the opening clause cannot stand up to proper scrutiny.

Casta Nal wrote:5.It is right to defend yourself and others agianst aggressors in a reasonable matter using reasonable force after attempting to avoid using force. Conduct of the individual will be reviewed by a court of law as correct if not the owner will face minor charges to complete revoking of all weapons.

What is "reasonable force"? Your proposal does not define it nor does it set out a basic ground work for what is reasonable.

Your grammar continues to be utterly atrocious.

Casta Nal wrote:6.It is not madatory to own weapons, you may or may not. It is up to you the individual person.

Ugh, contradictory. Especially since your proposal is considering magic and martial arts as weapons. If someone knows martial arts then by your definition they then "own it", so it makes this contradictory. Your proposal is built on extremely faulty logic.

Casta Nal wrote:7. Illegal activity with these weapons will result in heavy punishment. Using them for hunting when not allowed by a nation or in un-authorised entertainment usage will result in serious penalites. Weapons will not be used for crime or rebellion if so or suspected of using them for illegal purposes they are siezed permanetly or until you proven innocent or pardoned.

Proof-reading before you post is a bonus. It prevents long, run-on sentences. The longer the sentence you write, the more the grammar and spelling decays. Brevity would greatly benefit you until you have mastered the art of coherently explaining yourself.

Casta Nal wrote:8. All weapons must be bought from an apporved legit vendor or traded/bought form another owner in a overwatched trade. No black market allowed any weapon that is unregistared or aquired in an illegal way is taken and never returned other punishments might come along too.

Just because this says a black market is not allowed doesn't mean a black market won't exist. In fact, it provides no deterrence to the existence of a black market. This whole proposal is providing a frame work for a black market. By creating a environment in which acquisition is nearly impossible; a prohibition-like environment, you are fostering ideal conditions for a black market. There will always be demand. People will find a way around laws and regulations they disagree with, especially those which are shoddily composed.

Casta Nal wrote:Comment and discuss it with me. I would like to see this as a resolution and I need some help. It is in progress and needs major changes. Advice on what to allow and what not to allow as weapons too.

I frankly hope this never sees the light of day. Fortunately the ambassadors of this honourable body have enough collective common sense to block this twaddle.


Once again our faith that a few reasonable delegates here actually do exist has been fulfilled. Nicely put.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

Not Ta'veren

User avatar
Meekinos
Diplomat
 
Posts: 776
Founded: Sep 10, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Meekinos » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:57 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:
Meekinos wrote:
Casta Nal wrote:Here it is folkS:
Casta Nal and others would like assert the belif in self-defense.

Before you assert anything, try running your twaddle through a spell-checker first.

Casta Nal wrote:PEOPLE OF THE WORLD ASSEMBLY NATIONS NEED TO HAVE PROTECTION FROM CRIMINALS, ANIMAL ATTACKS, ZOMBIES, INVADERS, AND OTHER THINGS WHICH WOULD TRY TO KILL OR DO EVIL TO THEM.

That's why nations may decide to have a military.

Oh and cap lock is not needed to get your point across. You appear boorish by using it.

And now for the fun part, I'm going to tear this pathetic piece of legislation to pieces.

Casta Nal wrote:1. People would be allowed own ballistic weapons (guns, cannons, things that go BOOM!), melee weapons,martial arts, magic (depends on nation),other weapons, and defense items. The people may not own doomsday devicces and nukes or other heavy weaponry.

You contradicted yourself right in the first line. Not at all inspiring. Cannons typically qualify as 'heavy weaponry' unless you are referring to the hand-cannons, (ooc: such as the ones used by the Malmuks), in which case that would be similar to an early model of a gun. Further, ballistic weapons can also include crossbows, longbows, shortbows, etc.

Your definition is too vague, especially with the inclusion the infantile phase of "things that go BOOM!". There are plenty of things that go "boom" (TNT, a mixture of chlorine and bleach), including the doomsday devices that are named as prohibited. Another contradiction.

How does martial arts fit into this? Unless your proposal is referring to those which use weapons, such as Eskrima, Fencing, Gatka, Kendo and Kyūdō. But even then, that would fall under melee weapon. And how can anyone "own" a martial art? It doesn't make any logical sense. One can possess knowledge and proficiency but cannot actually own it, just as with magic. Your language makes no sense in relation to these items.

Casta Nal wrote:2.The Goverments of the World Assembly will mandate intense screening, heavy regulations,safety checks, licenses, screening, tests, and training.

Oh good, so we can make those so impossible that no one could acquire the weapons in the first place. Brilliant! No one would ever be able to pass the test or any of the regulations associated with the ownership of various weapons, thus completely defeating the intent of this shoddy legislation.

Of course, on the other hand, the government can mandate all this but at the same time ignore its own laws.

Bribery also comes to mind. There is nothing stopping people from bribing the right officials to get what they want.

Casta Nal wrote:3.The people would be charged to use them responibly, may carry them open, or conclealed.

Assuming of course they can even pass the test in the first place.

Casta Nal wrote:4.Weapons may be taken away if owner is found to be dangerous or not following the law.

How do you plan to take away martial arts or magic? See, your proposal fails because the opening clause cannot stand up to proper scrutiny.

Casta Nal wrote:5.It is right to defend yourself and others agianst aggressors in a reasonable matter using reasonable force after attempting to avoid using force. Conduct of the individual will be reviewed by a court of law as correct if not the owner will face minor charges to complete revoking of all weapons.

What is "reasonable force"? Your proposal does not define it nor does it set out a basic ground work for what is reasonable.

Your grammar continues to be utterly atrocious.

Casta Nal wrote:6.It is not madatory to own weapons, you may or may not. It is up to you the individual person.

Ugh, contradictory. Especially since your proposal is considering magic and martial arts as weapons. If someone knows martial arts then by your definition they then "own it", so it makes this contradictory. Your proposal is built on extremely faulty logic.

Casta Nal wrote:7. Illegal activity with these weapons will result in heavy punishment. Using them for hunting when not allowed by a nation or in un-authorised entertainment usage will result in serious penalites. Weapons will not be used for crime or rebellion if so or suspected of using them for illegal purposes they are siezed permanetly or until you proven innocent or pardoned.

Proof-reading before you post is a bonus. It prevents long, run-on sentences. The longer the sentence you write, the more the grammar and spelling decays. Brevity would greatly benefit you until you have mastered the art of coherently explaining yourself.

Casta Nal wrote:8. All weapons must be bought from an apporved legit vendor or traded/bought form another owner in a overwatched trade. No black market allowed any weapon that is unregistared or aquired in an illegal way is taken and never returned other punishments might come along too.

Just because this says a black market is not allowed doesn't mean a black market won't exist. In fact, it provides no deterrence to the existence of a black market. This whole proposal is providing a frame work for a black market. By creating a environment in which acquisition is nearly impossible; a prohibition-like environment, you are fostering ideal conditions for a black market. There will always be demand. People will find a way around laws and regulations they disagree with, especially those which are shoddily composed.

Casta Nal wrote:Comment and discuss it with me. I would like to see this as a resolution and I need some help. It is in progress and needs major changes. Advice on what to allow and what not to allow as weapons too.

I frankly hope this never sees the light of day. Fortunately the ambassadors of this honourable body have enough collective common sense to block this twaddle.


Once again our faith that a few reasonable delegates here actually do exist has been fulfilled. Nicely put.

There's nothing I enjoy more than ripping badly written legislation apart. It makes me quite happy.
Ambassador Gavriil Floros
Meekinos' Official WA Ambassador
Deputy Treasurer, North Pleides Merchant's Syndicate
CEO & Financial Manager of Delta Energy Ltd.
Madame Elina Nikodemos
Executive Senior Delegate
Educator
The Hellenic Republic of Meekinos
Factbook: Your Friendly Guide to Meekinos
The paranoid, isolationist, xenophobic capitalists.

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Quadrimmina
Minister
 
Posts: 2080
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Quadrimmina » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:34 pm

The Republic of Quadrimmina looks forward to the day that the World Assembly moves one step further by mandating that all member nation citizens have nuclear weapons.
Sincerely,
Alexandra Kerrigan, Ambassador to the World Assembly from the Republic of Quadrimmina.
National Profile | Ambassadorial Profile | Quadrimmina Gazette-Post | Protect, Free, Restore: UDL

Authored:
GA#111 (Medical Research Ethics Act)
SC#28 (Commend Sionis Prioratus)
GA#197 (Banning Extrajudicial Transfer)

Co-authored:
GA#110 (Identity Theft Prevention Act)
GA#171 (Freedom in Medical Research)
GA#196 (Freedom of Information Act)

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Sanctaria
Issues Editor
 
Posts: 7904
Founded: Sep 12, 2008
New York Times Democracy

Postby Sanctaria » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:50 pm

Quadrimmina wrote:The Republic of Quadrimmina looks forward to the day that the World Assembly moves one step further by mandating that all member nation citizens have nuclear weapons.


And this Ambassador looks forward to the day where all of the World Assembly delegations have IQs that are over 50. This is not directed at you, honoured Ambassador, but I'm sure you can take a wild guess.

Yours.,
Divine Federation of Sanctaria

Ideological Bulwark #258

Dr. Bethany Greer ORD, Sanctarian Ambassador to the World Assembly
Author of:
GA#109 GA#133 GA#176 GA#201 GA#222 GA#297
GA#590 (Co)
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Flibbleites
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 6569
Founded: Jan 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Flibbleites » Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:51 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
7. Illegal activity with these weapons will result in heavy punishment. Using them for hunting when not allowed by a nation or in un-authorised entertainment usage will result in serious penalites. Weapons will not be used for crime or rebellion if so or suspected of using them for illegal purposes they are siezed permanetly or until you proven innocent or pardoned.
8. All weapons must be bought from an apporved legit vendor or traded/bought form another owner in a overwatched trade. No black market allowed any weapon that is unregistared or aquired in an illegal way is taken and never returned other punishments might come along too.

= "Using guns for illegal purposes is illegal.
Acquiring guns illegally is illegal."

Whau! What next? "Water is wet", perhaps?
:palm:

No, "Hippos are really quite large."

Timothy Schmidt
Bob Flibble's PA

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Khorata
Minister
 
Posts: 2612
Founded: Jan 22, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Khorata » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:20 pm

Meekinos wrote:
Casta Nal wrote:7. Illegal activity with these weapons will result in heavy punishment. Using them for hunting when not allowed by a nation or in un-authorised entertainment usage will result in serious penalites. Weapons will not be used for crime or rebellion if so or suspected of using them for illegal purposes they are siezed permanetly or until you proven innocent or pardoned.

Proof-reading before you post is a bonus. It prevents long, run-on sentences. The longer the sentence you write, the more the grammar and spelling decays. Brevity would greatly benefit you until you have mastered the art of coherently explaining yourself.


So that's why Hayaba always posts one liners...

On the other hand, this resolution is stupid. We have self-defense forces, no stupid laws like those, yeah. Casta Nal, apply them to your nation and nothing but your nation. It's what's best.
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Hirota
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Founded: Jan 22, 2004
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hirota » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:39 pm

Bears Armed wrote:Whau! What next? "Water is wet", perhaps?
:palm:
I'm hoping for Hippos are big. Heck, I'm always hoping for that one.
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The Chelbrusitan
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Founded: Aug 17, 2010
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chelbrusitan » Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:53 pm

I would vote for it, but I do think that nations should control this themselves.
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Grays Harbor
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Founded: Antiquity
Ex-Nation

Postby Grays Harbor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:19 pm

The Chelbrusitan wrote:I would vote for it, but I do think that nations should control this themselves.

If you believe it is something that nations should be able to determine on their own, then why would you vote for it? that seems a bit contrary.
Everything you know about me is wrong. Or a rumor. Something like that.

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Quadrimmina
Minister
 
Posts: 2080
Founded: Mar 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Quadrimmina » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:24 pm

Grays Harbor wrote:
The Chelbrusitan wrote:I would vote for it, but I do think that nations should control this themselves.

If you believe it is something that nations should be able to determine on their own, then why would you vote for it? that seems a bit contrary.

If his nation follows the provisions and therefore does not care?
Sincerely,
Alexandra Kerrigan, Ambassador to the World Assembly from the Republic of Quadrimmina.
National Profile | Ambassadorial Profile | Quadrimmina Gazette-Post | Protect, Free, Restore: UDL

Authored:
GA#111 (Medical Research Ethics Act)
SC#28 (Commend Sionis Prioratus)
GA#197 (Banning Extrajudicial Transfer)

Co-authored:
GA#110 (Identity Theft Prevention Act)
GA#171 (Freedom in Medical Research)
GA#196 (Freedom of Information Act)

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Prometheos
Diplomat
 
Posts: 750
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Prometheos » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:24 pm

Personal firearms are illegal in the Kingdom of Prometheos. I voted against, simply due to the way your argument was written. Is your country filled with crime? If not, why supply your citizens with weaponry? If there is crime, I could see why you'd suggest such a thing. However, MINIGUNS? AKs? That's preposterous! Who needs automatic weapons to simply "defend themselves?" Military-grade weaponry should also be outlawed and reserved for law enforcement and military use. The line (for citizens) should be drawn at hunting rifles and handguns. Permits should be carried at all times, concealing the weapon should be illegal, and someone with a criminal history with a weapon should NOT be considered for a permit.
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Mikedor
Minister
 
Posts: 2375
Founded: Apr 24, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mikedor » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:12 am

We can support his, we'll just say that only medieval handguns are legal in Mikedor. The people still get their weapons, and it only takes about 3 hours for the loam to set and the gun to be loaded, which is plenty of time if someone is coming at you with deadly intent.
Welcome to 1938.

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Red Zone 1
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1689
Founded: May 12, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Red Zone 1 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:16 am

My nation always exercise our rights to defend ourself. That's why we have our Armed Forces.

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Casta Nal
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1497
Founded: Aug 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

Revised, Improved, DRAFT for Self-Defense

Postby Casta Nal » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:46 am

See later post
Last edited by Casta Nal on Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:I hereby dub thee Wage-Slave No.187878XCZ.

An FT Fenda.
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Flibbleites
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 6569
Founded: Jan 02, 2004
Ex-Nation

Postby Flibbleites » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:54 am

Let's keep your drafts in the same thread shall we, while we're at it you really need to shorten your sig the limit is 8 lines and yours is about double that.

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Casta Nal
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1497
Founded: Aug 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

New Draft, Imrpoved and Revised

Postby Casta Nal » Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:56 am

THE RESOLUTION ON SELF-DEFENSE
1. The free, legal, approved, and responsible, people of the World Assembly have the right to own weapons for the purposes of self-defense of themselves and others. This resolution still allows for security, police, and armed forces to protect the people still. It gives would be victims the right to fight back against criminals, wild animals, zombies, and as a militia in war.
2. That right is not compulsory. The individual must decide alone.
3. The weapons that are allowed to be owned for at least self-defense but other weapons status may be decided upon by sovereign nations. They are sidearms (Semi-Auto, Revolver, Machine Pistol, and anything that is of lower tech than these i.e. matchlocks/flintlocks etc.), Melee weapons (swords, maces, utensils, daggers, blades, blunt weapons, nun-chucks, etc.), bows (crossbow or regular bows), throwing weapons (knives, axes, etc.), martial arts, and magic (mana crap, life-force, technology, “nations may decide whether magic or similar abilities are real”).
Also the appropriate ammunition and supplies to upkeep the weapons and for safety.
4. Weapons that are not in this list fates are decided by sovereign governments. Governments may own those weapons; also special groups might as well such as museums and mercs/ corporates.
5. Only sovereign governments are allowed to make sensible hunting laws. Weapons listed may be used for entertainment (movies, TV, shows, videogames, coliseum battles “if legal”, duels “if legal”, for mock battles, training, and recreational usage “by destroying targets that are not or people, depending on nation.)
6. Individuals may own as many of these weapons as they want. They must be acquired legally at “white” or “gray” market store. Trades and buying from owner to owner must be overviewed. Individuals must pass intense screening, evaluations, training, tests, and prove they are trustworthy. When passed they will now be able to buy weapons and use them legally. They will be issued a license and papers listing all weapons and related equipment that they own and must update that regularly. The people may train and hone their skills in approved public ranges and in private areas legally without disturbing the peace. All weapons that used by the public must be found safe and secure.
7. If an individual is found to have intentionally hurt or killed someone not in self-defense or not in a approved venue with these weapons or is suspected of they are seized until the person is found innocent. If he is found to have done it, he must pay for his crimes in the country’s criminal justice system and if released may never own weapons again unless pardoned. If it was an accident the person must pay a fine to the man and victim/family. Weapons must be stored in a safe and secure way but ready to be used. An individual must make sure is weapons are prim and proper. The individual may hunt with them if allowed but if found illegally hunting or he did illegally hunt, the weapons are seized until he is proven innocent or pardoned. If not either they are seized forever. If found to be used in illegal duels and coliseum battles they are seized until proven innocent or pardoned. If not they are taken forever. When using self-defense, the force applied must be equal or if rounded to the force of the aggressor, if the individual who used self-defense, used too much they are either fined or have their weapons taken away do to irresponsibility until pardoned. One your weapons are taken away, you can get any more of them or supplies due to you have no license. If found to be illegally acquiring weapons on the black market, or in possession of illegal arms , all weapons are seized until proven innocent or pardoned. If not they are gone forever. If found not be following all orders (i.e. not taking test and evaluations afterword), the weapons are seized until proven innocent or until pardoned. If not they are taken forever.If the individual is found using the weapons in criminal or rebellion, the weapons are taken away until proven innocent or pardoned. If not they are seized forever with the individual receiving punishment.
8. Self-Defense is recognized as a right of the people to exercise and is to exist side-by side governmental security.
-The Principality of Casta Nal
Please comment and give you opininon on the matter. Also say whether or not you would vote for this. Help would be appericated.
Last edited by Casta Nal on Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Casta Nal
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Postby Casta Nal » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:12 am

Can someone give me commentary?
EnragedMaldivians wrote:I hereby dub thee Wage-Slave No.187878XCZ.

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Pannonia-Glucksberg
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Founded: Aug 06, 2009
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Postby Pannonia-Glucksberg » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:21 am

Casta Nal wrote:THE RESOLUTION ON SELF-DEFENSE
1. The free, legal, approved, and responsible, people of the World Assembly have the right to own weapons for the purposes of self-defense of themselves and others. This resolution still allows for security, police, and armed forces to protect the people still. It gives would be victims the right to fight back against criminals, wild animals, zombies, and as a militia in war.

We have national police force, unmarked police force working under national police force and many other armed government organisation which work for safety of our citizens. Giving everyone guns will kill people not stop killing people. And as for Zombies, we belive they are child stories and even if they aren't you bet once body is burned it cant come back to life. As for animals, well our forest rangers are there for that purpose. And for criminals - our camps are open for them and as I said before national police force, unmarked police force working under national police force and many other armed government organisation are there on hunt for Criminals.

Casta Nal wrote:2. That right is not compulsory. The individual must decide alone.

Rights can't be compulsory respected ambassador. If a right is compulsory - it becomes a duty.

Casta Nal wrote:3. The weapons that are allowed to be owned for at least self-defense but other weapons status may be decided upon by sovereign nations. They are sidearms (Semi-Auto, Revolver, Machine Pistol, and anything that is of lower tech than these i.e. matchlocks/flintlocks etc.), Melee weapons (swords, maces, utensils, daggers, blades, blunt weapons, nun-chucks, etc.), bows (crossbow or regular bows), throwing weapons (knives, axes, etc.), martial arts, and magic (mana crap, life-force, technology, “nations may decide whether magic or similar abilities are real”).
Also the appropriate ammunition and supplies to upkeep the weapons and for safety.

Okay, so if this will ever pass - we can simply ban the bullets and ammunitions needed for the weapons to be posed by common citizens - so defeating the whole purpose of this draft.

Casta Nal wrote:4. Weapons that are not in this list fates are decided by sovereign governments. Governments may own those weapons; also special groups might as well such as museums and mercs/ corporates.

3 wrote:...the weapons status may be decided upon by sovereign nations.

You dont have to repeat yourself do you respected ambassador?

Casta Nal wrote:5. Only sovereign governments are allowed to make sensible hunting laws. Weapons listed may be used for entertainment (movies, TV, shows, videogames, coliseum battles “if legal”, duels “if legal”, for mock battles, training, and recreational usage “by destroying targets that are not or people, depending on nation.)

So this draft will make it legal to "destroy" endangered spices of animals?

Casta Nal wrote:6. Individuals may own as many of these weapons as they want. They must be acquired legally at “white” or “gray” market store. Trades and buying from owner to owner must be overviewed. Individuals must pass intense screening, evaluations, training, tests, and prove they are trustworthy. When passed they will now be able to buy weapons and use them legally. They will be issued a license and papers listing all weapons and related equipment that they own and must update that regularly. The people may train and hone their skills in approved public ranges and in private areas legally without disturbing the peace. All weapons that used by the public must be found safe and secure.

Ah! so we found next loophole - lets make the tests impossible. Huraay!

Casta Nal wrote:7. If an individual is found to have intentionally hurt or killed someone not in self-defense or not in a approved venue with these weapons or is suspected of they are seized until the person is found innocent. If he is found to have done it, he must pay for his crimes in the country’s criminal justice system and if released may never own weapons again unless pardoned. If it was an accident the person must pay a fine to the man and victim/family. Weapons must be stored in a safe and secure way but ready to be used. An individual must make sure is weapons are prim and proper. The individual may hunt with them if allowed but if found illegally hunting or he did illegally hunt, the weapons are seized until he is proven innocent or pardoned. If not either they are seized forever. If found to be used in illegal duels and coliseum battles they are seized until proven innocent or pardoned. If not they are taken forever. When using self-defense, the force applied must be equal or if rounded to the force of the aggressor, if the individual who used self-defense, used too much they are either fined or have their weapons taken away do to irresponsibility until pardoned. One your weapons are taken away, you can get any more of them or supplies due to you have no license. If found to be illegally acquiring weapons on the black market, or in possession of illegal arms , all weapons are seized until proven innocent or pardoned. If not they are gone forever. If found not be following all orders (i.e. not taking test and evaluations afterword), the weapons are seized until proven innocent or until pardoned. If not they are taken forever.

And how the hell will anyone know if it was a accident or intentional?

Casta Nal wrote:8. Self-Defense is recognized as a right of the people to exercise and is to exist side-by side governmental security.

Define Self-Defence for us if it isn't a much of trouble.



"In short we aren't going to support this in any circumstances"
Long Live Queen and Grand Baroness Kittania I
Queen of Pannonia,Grand Baroness of Glucksberg and Empress of Swanderfeld
Queen of Pannonia,
Grand Baroness of Glucksberg,
Empress of Swanderfeld,
Grand High Chieftainess of the Many Clans,
Lady of the Inner Lands,
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Casta Nal
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Founded: Aug 16, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Casta Nal » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:24 am

I finally got some commantary! Thanks for tips and loophole spotting. Hunting rights are decided by soverign nations in a sensible manner. SENSIBLE!!! Make the tests fair and supplies are inluded with weapons.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:I hereby dub thee Wage-Slave No.187878XCZ.

An FT Fenda.
My Nation does not reflect my views.

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:34 am

-The Principality of Casta Nal

Resolutions cannot have signatures at the end. That would violate the Branding rule (inserting nation names into resolutions).

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