[DRAFT] Executive Order

[Eraplevok]

Description: Consdidering the WA is legislative body and in light that it is now a judicial body, its only natural that it have an executive body, or something rather similar.

Realizing that criminals cant be caught and laws can not be enforced with out an executive body

Wanting to relieve some of the burden of WA nations having to enforce international law

Hereby initiates the Overtly Refined and Democratic Executive Representative (ORDER)

ORDER shall be under control by one man (gnome)

ORDER shall have the power to temporarily hire security firms in times of emergency

ORDER shall never have a standing army or police force

It is guaranteed that ORDER will hire (temporarily) security firms out of the best interest of the WA, to maintain control of rogue areas of the world, catch international criminals and enforce international law.

These security firms will also act in the best interest of WA member nations.

These temporarily hired security firms shall not be permanently integrated into the WA

ANY SUGGESTIONS?

[Grays Harbor]

"temporary" militias, armies, whatever, is still an NS military and is illegal.

[Eraplevok]

"The WA doesn't get an army. Nor does it get to form The World Police."

This proposal is not giving the WA its own standing army. The WA is not policing with the hiring of security firms, its looking out for its best interest and the interests of its members. How is the WA able to survive having a legislative body and a judicial body without an executive like body? How would this governing body be able to govern?

[Grays Harbor]

"The WA doesn't get an army. Nor does it get to form The World Police."

This proposal is not giving the WA its own standing army. The WA is not policing with the hiring of security firms, its looking out for its best interest and the interests of its members. How is the WA able to survive having a legislative body and a judicial body without an executive like body? How would this governing body be able to govern?

Read the highlighted quote again. Nowhere does it say standing. It says doesn't get an army. Period. Temp, standing, whatever.

[Eraplevok]

The WA doesnt own the security firm, they are contracters, they are not WA property. Any WA or any nation that enforces WA law acts as a police force or army for the WA, what does it matter if private security firms are involved? Also nowhere does the rule say it can't have a temporary security firm so... I wonder if the WA accepts donations form private companies, corporations, security firms

[Grays Harbor]

The WA doesnt own the security firm, they are contracters, they are not WA property

They are still hired by the WA, therefore would be "employees" of the WA. Your "splitting hairs" doesn't make it any less illegal.

This is an illegal proposal. As in Not Legal. As in Prohibited.

[Eraplevok]

I'm sorry, I need another word to understand what you think it means.

[Grays Harbor]

I'm sorry, I need another word to understand what you think it means.

How about "Bloody Stupid", that seems to cover it quite well.

[Nullarni]

I suggest you listen to the representative from Grays Harbor. He knows what he's talking about.

And as a side note, why do you think the WA needs an "executive branch"? I mean three branch goverments are sooo anglophillic, and boring too. We really don't need a king of the world, thank you very much. This is utter rubbish.

[Burninati0n]

Just because your nation seems to be having a bit of difficulty with the whole policing thing doesn't mean that we all are. And it certainly doesn't mean that we want you to pull WA funding for something like that.

[Flibbleites]

The WA doesnt own the security firm, they are contracters, they are not WA property

They are still hired by the WA, therefore would be "employees" of the WA. Your "splitting hairs" doesn't make it any less illegal.

This is an illegal proposal. As in Not Legal. As in Prohibited.

Grays is correct, no matter the term used they're still operating under the aegis of the WA and therefore are a WA military/police force.

[Eraplevok]

Every governing body thats ever existed had an executive (enforce law), legislative (make laws), and judicial branch (Interpret Law), even if it was not called that specifically. The WA would have its own "police force and army" if the WA laws are enforced. I assume they are being enforced by WA members, so the WA members are its police and army. WA member states might also hire security firms to enforce international law. What difference does it make if the WA hired a temp security firm? If WA laws arent enforced, the WA is meaningless. I know the WA is made up of the most rational and logical nations of the world and enforce international law by what I assume to be voluntary means. The Member states don't have to enforce international law, or do they? If they have to then the WA is officially a policing body in forcing its member nations to follow international law, and breaking its own rules because it is a policing body. If member states don't have to , then what? The WA's law has no meaning, its merely just a suggesting body, its courts would be irrelevant because they are now suggestions rather than laws. In order for the WA to be relevant, it needs to be able to have some sort of executive body or something close to it. This resolution creates ORDER that allows the temporarily hiring of security firms. The security firms are not the WA army, they are contractors. They are not the police, they are only temporarily acting in WA's best interests, and following what the WA sees as best.

[Mousebumples]

Every governing body thats ever existed had an executive (enforce law), legislative (make laws), and judicial branch (Interpret Law), even if it was not called that specifically.

Untrue. Many civilizations had one individual who made the laws and and interpreted the laws. Also, I think you are confused over what the "executive branch" is/does. In RL US, the executive branch is the President. He does not enforce the laws - he signs things into law. While all individuals in the US are, technically, under his authority, police officers (who do enforce the law) do not report to him.

The WA would have its own "police force and army" if the WA laws are enforced. I assume they are being enforced by WA members, so the WA members are its police and army.

The WA laws are enforced by a variety of gnomes, who ensure that member states are in compliance.

This resolution creates ORDER that allows the temporarily hiring of security firms. The security firms are not the WA army, they are contractors. They are not the police, they are only temporarily acting in WA's best interests, and following what the WA sees as best.

A mod has already ruled this as being illegal. I doubt that re-explaining yourself (without really adding any new information) will result in a different opinion.

If you'd like to file an appeal to have another mod consider the case, I would suggest creating a thread in the moderation forum. However, I doubt you will get a different answer. No matter how much you may dislike that ruling, that has been the precedent around here for a long, long time.

[Eraplevok]

Every governing body thats ever existed had an executive (enforce law), legislative (make laws), and judicial branch (Interpret Law), even if it was not called that specifically.

Untrue. Many civilizations had one individual who made the laws and and interpreted the laws. Also, I think you are confused over what the "executive branch" is/does. In RL US, the executive branch is the President. He does not enforce the laws - he signs things into law. While all individuals in the US are, technically, under his authority, police officers (who do enforce the law) do not report to him.

The WA would have its own "police force and army" if the WA laws are enforced. I assume they are being enforced by WA members, so the WA members are its police and army.

The WA laws are enforced by a variety of gnomes, who ensure that member states are in compliance.

This resolution creates ORDER that allows the temporarily hiring of security firms. The security firms are not the WA army, they are contractors. They are not the police, they are only temporarily acting in WA's best interests, and following what the WA sees as best.

A mod has already ruled this as being illegal. I doubt that re-explaining yourself (without really adding any new information) will result in a different opinion.

If you'd like to file an appeal to have another mod consider the case, I would suggest creating a thread in the moderation forum. However, I doubt you will get a different answer. No matter how much you may dislike that ruling, that has been the precedent around here for a long, long time.

It is true, That one man then acted as a legislative body and judiciary body. I don't think you fully understand US system of government is either. The executive branch for the US consists of all government agencies CIA, FBI, and the like that enforces federal law. Since the US has a federalist system it depends on what level the police are - local police, state police. The executive branch of states are the governor and its agencies, and for local or city its the mayor and its agencies. The police are part of the executive branch.

Well, if WA laws are enforced by gnomes, then they are the police, and effectively breaking their own rules

obviously not with the gnomes policing everything

[Ainocra]

*chuckle*

and now you are all reaping what you have sown

[Embolalia]

I don't think you fully understand US system of government is either.

I don't think you fully understand that a mod has ruled this illegal.

If I may?
[/thread]

[Eraplevok]

All im saying is the WA has absolutely no power to do anything without an executive body or something similar (I'm ignoring that the gnomes are policing everything and breaking the rules). This proposal would legitamize the WA, it needs a temporary organization to act in the best interst of the WA. I don't like it that we are ignoring this flaw in this grand organization.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Security firms cannot be created in the WA, period. Sorry.

[Eraplevok]

this proposal isnt creating a security firm

[Shazbotdom]

"You still don't understand. The WA cannot hire any security firm, create a security firm, or contract out to any security firm as that would CREATE a WA Police/Military. This proposal is so far beyond 'Illegal' that we cannot and will not support it. Also, you don't even have a Catagory and Strength, so what good would this do us if you did take out the parts about hiring a security force, it would be a worthless proposal."

[Embolalia]

All im saying is the WA has absolutely no power to do anything without an executive body or something similar (I'm ignoring that the gnomes are policing everything and breaking the rules). This proposal would legitamize the WA, it needs a temporary organization to act in the best interst of the WA. I don't like it that we are ignoring this flaw in this grand organization.

OOC: There's something called suspension of disbelief. Every member of this body (except you, apparently) takes it as a given that nations are in compliance. Its' just the way the game is played. Also, when a resolution is passed, your nation's stats are automatically edited to comply. Thus, for all game mechanics purposes, you are in compliance. I don't know how long you've been in the WA, but you might have noticed that, when a resolution is passed, you get a TG informing you that "Laws have been enacted to bring {{Nation}} into compliance with the World Assembly Resolution {{Resolution}}. Thus, your nation's laws include, upon its passage, anything included in the resolution. For these reasons, like I said before, it is taken as fact that all nations are in compliance. There is no way not to be.
The gnomes are not literal, they are merely a rhetorical device. Gnomes stand for an impartial, unbiased administrative force that runs the various committees, councils, and administrations. They are not a police force.
Finally, as Flibbleites, Grays Harbor, and others have said, the World Assembly is under no circumstances allowed to create, hire, or in any other way have direct control over, a security force, police force, military, or anything else of the sort.

So, to sum up: Compliance is assumed, thus there is no need to have any resolution to add enforcement. Gnomes do not violate the rules, they are a device to aid in understanding the way the WA works. And lastly, and this is the absolute, law of the land, unarguable fact: When a moderator (that would be Flibbleites in this case) says your proposal is illegal, you change it or give up. End of story.

[Grays Harbor]

Whether anybody here has "an understanding of the US system" or not is irrelevent. The WA is not the US. We do not require the WA to be a carbon copy of the US. We do not necessarily want the WA to be a carbon copy of the US. That is not what the WA is. Using "But this is how they do it in the US" as the basis for your argument is misguided at best.

This is an illegal proposal.

[Flibbleites]

All im saying is the WA has absolutely no power to do anything without an executive body or something similar (I'm ignoring that the gnomes are policing everything and breaking the rules). This proposal would legitamize the WA, it needs a temporary organization to act in the best interst of the WA. I don't like it that we are ignoring this flaw in this grand organization.

The WA has an executive body, it's called the compliance ministry and it's built right into the game already so this proposal isn't needed.

[Sionis Prioratus]

I bet the guy never heard about Madam Catherine Gratwick. Poor bloke, for when he should hear from her, it will also be the last thing he hears.

Yours in mourning,

[Omigodtheykilledkenny]

Every governing body thats ever existed had an executive (enforce law), legislative (make laws), and judicial branch (Interpret Law), even if it was not called that specifically.

Untrue. Many civilizations had one individual who made the laws and and interpreted the laws. Also, I think you are confused over what the "executive branch" is/does. In RL US, the executive branch is the President. He does not enforce the laws - he signs things into law. While all individuals in the US are, technically, under his authority, police officers (who do enforce the law) do not report to him.

You don't think federal cops have to report to the Obama administration? Why would everyone be so paranoid about DHS if they couldn't actually do anything?

[/OT, sorry]