NATION

PASSWORD

[Post Reset] Proclamation of Universal Rights

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
User avatar
The Kharkivan Cossacks
Diplomat
 
Posts: 979
Founded: Oct 28, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

[Post Reset] Proclamation of Universal Rights

Postby The Kharkivan Cossacks » Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:43 pm

The Kharkivan Ambassador nods to the ambassador of The Ice States.
To quote our fellow ambassador.
""The Eternal Union is pleased to announce its collaboration with the Kharkivan mission to replace an ancient yet relatively recently repealed resolution: Rights of Sapient Species. This draft is our foremost priority at this time."

~Claudia Lindner,
Deputy World Assembly Ambassador,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
"

(OOC: Taking over the OP from Mage, who has decided to step down as leader of this proposal and has tasked me with keeping this thread up. He is still an author of the proposal.)

The World Assembly,

Taking note of the lack of a standing resolution that broadly safeguards the rights of member nations’ inhabitants against arbitrary and unfair discrimination since the sudden disintegration of the previous iteration of this Assembly;

Judging that establishing a standard for personhood in the General Assembly is a prudent step for the coherence of international law;

Believing that although civic domestic policymaking generally ought to be reserved to member states, state-sanctioned discrimination is a prominent moral issue which provides little practical benefit against which to reconsider its restriction;

Additionally positing that the possibility of unrestrained discrimination is likely to exacerbate conflicts between WA member states, undermining the cohesion and effectiveness of this body;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Personhood: Every member nation must designate as a natural person any organic or artificial entity demonstrating a capacity for introspection, argumentative reasoning and problem solving, sensation, and emotion. If one reasonably typical member of a species is proven to possess this ability, the species shall be presumed to be "sapient", meaning that all other members of that species shall be granted personhood even if that individual is unable to meet the criteria under this section for personhood on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

  2. Discrimination: Member nations, their subdivisions, and any organizations or corporations under their jurisdiction, are prohibited from discriminating against any person on the grounds of an innate characteristic or any other characteristic protected by relevant international or national law. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to the said characteristic; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's possession or lack of the characteristic; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same. This section may be waived to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care;

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species; or

    3. ensure equity amongst different groups based on the said characteristic, such as through affirmative action policies.

  3. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that an entity under its jurisdiction may meet the criteria for personhood under Section 1, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that entity in fact does so.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Civil Rights Commission is hereby established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to perform an investigation as prescribed.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation to be substantially likely that a species is sapient, or that an entity meets the criteria for personhood, then a member nation must presume the same to be true until such time as this presumption is disproven.

    3. Every member nation must recognise any designation by the Civil Rights Commission of a species as sapient, or an entity as possessing Section 1 personhood. The Civil Rights Commission may grant such designation without conducting its own investigation if and only if such a determination has been previously reached in a reliable investigation by an impartial entity.

  4. Enforcement: The deliberate destruction or decommissioning of an artificial system possessing Section 1 personhood is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other characteristic protected by national or international law.




Co-authors: Excidium Planetis, The Ice States, Islandwalk
Last edited by The Kharkivan Cossacks on Wed Jul 22, 2026 9:37 am, edited 28 times in total.
Call me TKC, Cossack, Kharkivan (Kharv) or TN.
He/him

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Kharkivan has done a pretty good hatchet job review of the text, though I’m sure there will be those posting who think this is the best thing since sliced bread.

User avatar
The Kharkivan Cossacks
Diplomat
 
Posts: 979
Founded: Oct 28, 2023
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby The Kharkivan Cossacks » Wed Feb 19, 2025 5:44 pm

Drafts kidnapped by aliens are listed here!

The World Assembly,

Taking note of the lack of a standing resolution that broadly safeguards the rights of member nations’ inhabitants against arbitrary and unfair discrimination since the repeal of GA #35: The Charter of Civil Rights;

Believing that current resolutions do not adequately address many areas of potential mistreatment, including potential supremacist sentiments that were previously prohibited by GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species; and

Hoping to solidify the rights of all intelligent inhabitants of member nations, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Personhood: Every member nation must designate as a natural person any organic or artificial entity demonstrating the ability to reason. If one member of a species is proven to possess this ability, the species shall be presumed to be "sapient", meaning that all other members of that species shall be granted personhood even if that individual is unable to meet the criteria under this section for personhood on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

  2. Discrimination: No person may be discriminated against on the grounds of an innate characteristic or any other characteristic protected by relevant international or national law. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to the said characteristic; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's possession or lack of the characteristic; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same. This section may be waived to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care;

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species; or

    3. ensure equity amongst different groups based on the said characteristic, such as through affirmative action policies.

  3. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that an entity under its jurisdiction may meet the criteria for personhood under Section 1, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that entity in fact does so.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities (hereinafter "NONITE") is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribed.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation to be substantially likely that a species is sapient, or that an entity meets the criteria for personhood, then a member nation must presume the same to be true until such time as this presumption is disproven.

    3. Every member nation must recognise any designation by NONITE of a species as sapient, or an entity as possessing Section 1 personhood. NONITE may grant such designation without conducting its own investigation if and only if such a determination has been previously reached in a reliable investigation by an impartial entity.

  4. Enforcement: The deliberate destruction or decommissioning of an artificial system possessing Section 1 personhood is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other characteristic protected by national or international law.


Co-authors: Excidium Planetis, The Ice States.

The World Assembly,

Recognising the lack of a standing resolution to protect the rights of sophonts who happen not to be the dominant species in a member nation since the repeal of GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species;

Hoping to solidify the rights of artificially conscious beings and non-dominant sophonts alike, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Interpretation: This resolution shall be interpreted according to the following prescriptions:

    1. A "sophont" is an organic entity possessing the ability to reason If one member of a species is proven to be a sophont then all other members of that species shall also be presumed sophonts, including any individual unable to meet the definition of a sophont on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

    2. An "artificially conscious program" (hereinafter ACP) is an artificial system possessing consciousness and the ability to reason. If a system is discovered to be an ACP, then a member nation shall presume any other system of sufficiently similar design as to be capable of meeting the criteria for an ACP to be itself an ACP.
  2. Personhood: Every sophont or ACP in a member nation is a person. Every member nation must grant the full rights and responsibilities of status as a natural person to every sophont or ACP under its jurisdiction.

  3. Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, organic status or lack thereof. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, organic status or lack thereof; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, organic status or lack thereof; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same. This section may be waived to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care;

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species; or

    3. protect a group of persons from discrimination on grounds of their species, organic status or lack thereof, such as through affirmative action policies.

  4. Enforcement: Species, organic status and lack thereof, as they apply to persons, are each arbitrary and reductive characteristics and to be recognised as such by all member nations.

    1. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other arbitrary, reductive characteristic.

    2. The deliberate destruction or deactivation of an ACP is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide.

  5. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that a species under its jurisdiction may be a sophont, or that an ACP may have been developed under its jurisdiction, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that species or system is in fact a sophont or ACP.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribed.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation that a species or other entity is substantially likely to possess sophont or ACP status, then a member nation must presume that the species or entity indeed possesses the said status and grant all rights associated therewith until such time as this presumption is disproven.

The World Assembly,

Recognising the lack of a standing resolution to protect the rights of sophonts who happen not to be the dominant species in a member nation since the passage of a flimsy repeal of GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species;

Hoping to solidify the rights of artificial beings and non-dominant sophonts alike, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Interpretation: This resolution shall be interpreted according to the following prescriptions:

    1. A "sophont" is an organic entity possessing the ability to reason and to communicate with individuals of the same or like species. If one member of a species is proven to be a sophont then all other members of that species shall also be presumed sophonts, including any individual unable to meet the definition of a sophont on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

    2. An "artificial conscious program" (hereinafter ACP) is an artificial system possessing consciousness and the ability to reason. If a system is discovered to be an ACP, then any other system of sufficiently similar design as to be capable of meeting the criteria for an ACP shall itself be presumed an ACP.

    3. Any conflicts between this resolution and a prior one in force as of interpretation shall be resolved in favour of the older resolution.
  2. Personhood: Every sophont or ACP in a member nation is a person. Every member nation must grant the full rights and responsibilities of status as a natural person to every sophont or ACP under its jurisdiction.

  3. Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, ACP status or organic status. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, ACP status or organic status; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, ACP status or organic status; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same; except to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care; or

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species.

  4. Enforcement: Species, ACP status and organic status, as they apply to persons, are each arbitrary and reductive characteristics and to be recognised as such by all member nations. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, ACP status or organic status as it would do for any other arbitrary, reductive characteristic. The deliberate destruction or deactivation of an ACP is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, ACP status or organic status is an act of genocide.

  5. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that a species under its jurisdiction may be a sophont, or that an ACP may have been developed under its jurisdiction, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that species or system is in fact a sophont or ACP.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribed by this section.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation that a species or artificial entity is substantially likely to possess sophont or ACP status respectively, then a member nation must presume that the species or entity indeed possesses the said status and grant all rights associated therewith until such time as this presumption is disproven.
Last edited by The Kharkivan Cossacks on Wed Jul 22, 2026 9:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
Call me TKC, Cossack, Kharkivan (Kharv) or TN.
He/him

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Kharkivan has done a pretty good hatchet job review of the text, though I’m sure there will be those posting who think this is the best thing since sliced bread.

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23195
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Wallenburg » Wed Feb 19, 2025 7:54 pm

"There are valid reasons to discriminate on the basis of what you call ACP status. Namely, that collection of attributes customarily comes with the capacity for culpability and duty. There is a colorable argument to be made that this would, if legal, render various violent crimes unprosecutable on the basis that member states don't convict trees for falling on people or lakes for drowning people."
GREX LUDENTIUM DELENDUS EST
King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Despotic Hegemon, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy

User avatar
Moduland
WA Secretariat
 
Posts: 286
Founded: Jun 18, 2023
Democratic Socialists

Postby Moduland » Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:07 am

Image

A bright white deer in a suit approaches. "Oh my goodness guys! After being harassed by some of those human supremacists when trying to protect my friends with virtual minds, it's so refreshing to see folks trying to protect us non-humans under law!! I have only a couple minor thoughts, but otherwise really like what you have here!! Yay!!"

The deer places a sheet of paper on the table and pushes it forward gently.
Definitions - By definition, wouldn't the term sophont also include humans? That's how I take it, but just confirming. This is not to change the language, per say, but if it also includes humans why do we need "Alien" in the title of the proposal? Wouldn't it just be Rights of all Sophonts and ACPs?
Section 3 - How would this relate back to affirmative action programs in member states to help non-dominant sophont species to make up for historic wrongdoings? It may be worth adding this as an additional explicit carve out to ensure this doesn't accidentally get interpreted to prohibit member states from establishing affirmative action programs.
Section 5a - Should the Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities be an organ of the "WA Commission on Human Rights?" More of a question and thought than an actual suggestion to change the text.
OOC: Some minor suggestions above. Largely support as is, but I do think some explicit language protecting affirmative action programs may be helpful.
The Island Getaway Package of Moduland
Current Mayor of Ridgefield
Member of the WA Secretariat


Government of Moduland
Mayor of Ridgefield: Agnes | WA Ambassador / Secretariat: Shino | AA Administrator: Raymond

WA Secretariat Office

User avatar
Bananaistan
Senator
 
Posts: 3716
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Thu Feb 20, 2025 8:59 am

OOC: Opposed due to the cheat clause and the word sophont.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Cornelius "Con" Talmadge
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.
Ideological Bulwark #281
THIS

User avatar
Federationalism
Envoy
 
Posts: 291
Founded: Oct 18, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby Federationalism » Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:34 am

I can tell this is an exceptionally well-written draft, as expected by some of the most distinguished writers of the WA. I'm going to be completely honest when I say I have no clue how to process WA motions in general - but due to my interest in issues, I can offer some critiques when it comes to editing. Here are some of my takes.


The World Assembly,

Recognising the lack of a standing resolution to protect the rights of sophonts who happen not to be the dominant species in a member nation since the passage of a the flimsy repeal of GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species;

Hoping to solidify the rights of artificially conscious beings and non-dominant sophonts alike, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Interpretation: This resolution shall be interpreted according to the following prescriptions:

    1. A "sophont" is an organic entity possessing the ability to reason and to communicate with individuals of the same or like species. If one member of a species is proven to be a sophont then all other members of that species shall also be presumed sophonts, including any individual unable to meet the definition of a sophont on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or thatany individualbeing yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

    2. An "Artificially Conscious Program" (hereinafter ACP) is an artificial system possessing consciousness and the ability to reason. If a system is discovered to be an ACP, then any other system of sufficiently similar design as to be capable of meeting the criteria for an ACP shall itself be presumed an ACP.

    3. Any conflicts between this resolution and a prior one in force as of interpretation shall be resolved in favour of the older resolution.
  2. Personhood: Every sophont or ACP in a member nation is a person. Every member nation must grant the full rights and responsibilities of status as a natural person to every sophont or ACP under its jurisdiction.

  3. Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, ACP status or organic status. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, ACP status or organic status; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, ACP status or organic status; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same; except to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care; or

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disasterthreat affecting only that species.

  4. Enforcement: Species, ACP status and organic status, as they apply to persons, are each arbitrary and reductive characteristics and to be recognised as such by all member nations. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, ACP status or organic status, as it would do for any other arbitrary, reductive characteristic. The deliberate destruction or deactivation of an ACP is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic personindividual in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, ACP status or organic status is an act of genocide.

  5. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that a species under its jurisdiction may be a sophont, or that an ACP may have been developed under its jurisdiction, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation intoto determine whether that species or system is in fact a sophont or ACP.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar, and Terrestrial Entities is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribedby this section.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation that a species or artificial entity is substantially likely to possess sophont or ACP status respectively, then a member nation must presume that the species or entity indeed possesses the said status and grant all rights associated therewith until such time as this presumption is disproven.



Writing edits:

[*]Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, ACP status or organic status. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, ACP status or organic status; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, ACP status or organic status; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same; except to the minimal extent necessary to:


1. It may just be the WA style of writing, but I find the repetition of "ACP or organic status" an unnecessary addition of characters, however, it seems that is increasing your character count (which seems to be on the lower end of the spectrum). Just wanted to clarify if that was the intention.

If a system is discovered to be an ACP, then any other system of sufficiently similar design as to be capable of meeting the criteria for an ACP shall itself be presumed an ACP.


2. I feel like this sentence is phrased slightly off, maybe look at it again (again, may just be my sense of writing).


Many of the edits I have proposed may be substantially worse than your writing. I would pay no heed to them and determine what you would like to include, if at all. Hopefully some of my additions may help add consideration per alternatives in case you may utilize them for the purpose of reducing or increasing your character count, or for any other purpose. I wish you good luck on your draft! :)
So iconic. So magnificent. So dazzling. So "i bob"... ?

I'mmm... probably editing an issue draft, but I'll poke in General out of boredom sometimes.

User avatar
Barfleur
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1496
Founded: Mar 04, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Barfleur » Thu Feb 20, 2025 9:55 pm

"At this moment we see no reason not to support. However, as a stylistic matter, I wonder whether the various sentences in clause 4 should each be their own lettered subclauses, seeing as they are on very different things. Just a suggestion. Additionally, I wonder whether regulations may be necessary to clarify, among other things, whether it is possible to own a design in an ACP, what happens if a person changes the characteristics of an ACP, and the like."


Ambassador to the World Assembly: Edmure Norfield
Military Attaché: Colonel Lyndon Q. Ralston
Sapient Human-Sized Rabbit: Troy of Rabbittown
Authorship

User avatar
Simone Republic
Minister
 
Posts: 2770
Founded: Jul 09, 2019
Capitalizt

Postby Simone Republic » Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:01 pm

Bananaistan wrote:OOC: Opposed due to the cheat clause and the word sophont.


Not using the cheat clause ('subject to previously passed resolutions blah blah') means having to do a lot of contortions, like my "Gender Affirmation Procedures" having to dodge like 16 different resolutions. It also means that Magecastle has to actually work to check precedents, which he is obviously not good at.

User avatar
Astrobolt
Diplomat
 
Posts: 779
Founded: Jul 30, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Astrobolt » Thu Feb 20, 2025 11:32 pm

OOC: Against all anti contradiction clauses unless authors can explain why they are needed in the context of their particular resolution.
XKI FA Secretary
TITO Tactical Officer
Co-author of GAR #776: Repeal: "Aircraft Terrorism Prohibition” (with The Byrdlands and Haymarket Riot)
Ambassador to the WA: Mr. Reede Tappe


For a detailed list of positions, and other things of note, click here.

User avatar
The Ice States
Senator
 
Posts: 4474
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ice States » Fri Mar 14, 2025 4:27 am

"The Eternal Union is pleased to announce the publication of an updated draft addressing the comments provided by all missions to date."

~Samuel Rothmann,
Senior WA Representative,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
Old GA Stat Effects · Style Guide · WA Authorship

"Petty tyrant", "antithetical to a better future for the WA".

User avatar
Moduland
WA Secretariat
 
Posts: 286
Founded: Jun 18, 2023
Democratic Socialists

Postby Moduland » Fri Mar 14, 2025 8:08 am

Image

A bright white deer (Shino) in a suit walks into the room waving a paper in hand. Shino says, "Oh. My. Goodness!! So many good edits. Love it!! Support this thing totes as is now!!"

Shino skips out of the room.
The Island Getaway Package of Moduland
Current Mayor of Ridgefield
Member of the WA Secretariat


Government of Moduland
Mayor of Ridgefield: Agnes | WA Ambassador / Secretariat: Shino | AA Administrator: Raymond

WA Secretariat Office

User avatar
The Ice States
Senator
 
Posts: 4474
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ice States » Tue Mar 18, 2025 2:31 pm

Bumping for any more comments!
Old GA Stat Effects · Style Guide · WA Authorship

"Petty tyrant", "antithetical to a better future for the WA".

User avatar
The Ice States
Senator
 
Posts: 4474
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ice States » Wed Mar 26, 2025 2:33 pm

"We presume the lack of comments to imply that this draft is indeed perfect. If so, celebrations alongside submission will commence shortly."

~Samuel Rothmann,
Senior WA Representative,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
Old GA Stat Effects · Style Guide · WA Authorship

"Petty tyrant", "antithetical to a better future for the WA".

User avatar
Galliont
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 199
Founded: Aug 04, 2024
Ex-Nation

Postby Galliont » Fri Mar 28, 2025 3:49 pm

Support
The One, the Only:
John Cena !!!!!!

User avatar
Cessarea
Minister
 
Posts: 2220
Founded: Jul 02, 2023
New York Times Democracy

Postby Cessarea » Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:51 am

Leaves-of-Blight was having a bad day. In their office, the Ambassador read a certain proposal displayed in a holographic monitor with increasing anger. They threw their desk to the side with incredible strength, sliding it all the way into the nearby wall, and forcefully grabbed two aides from their positions - who'd been previously working on some bureaucratic affairs. Some Artificial mechanics were present, fixing up the structure of the constantly-in-disrepair office, and they could see in that Cessarea's round red eyes a primal hatred for everything and everyone in their path. They looked well into their subordinates, shouting:

"Send this to the Palace. This is absurd! Draft a resignation speech - if this ever comes to vote, Cessarea will leave." Both diminutive machines nodded along shyly, and proceeded to carry out the orders given with utmost diligence, adopting a silent division of tasks. The Ambassador adjusted the flowing drapery of their elegant, human 18th century dress, tailored to better suit the slim dimensions of the Artificial body, one they'd picked from the... interesting selection of clothing they had decided to adopt some years ago. A job still had to be done, with or without an impending breach of the nation's Sovereignty. In a few minutes, Cessarea would request a timeslot for speaking, alongside the Cessarea WA mission sending out digitally the following item of the proposal to the involved Ambassadors:
Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, organic status or lack thereof. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, organic status or lack thereof; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, organic status or lack thereof; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same.

Standing behind the usual drafting desk, Leaves-of-Blight took a moment to compose themselves. It'd take all of their energy to avoid a diplomatic incident at this moment, and they'd been specifically instructed by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to be mild-mannered during the address. Yes, mild manners. "I can do that, right?" They thought, briefly, before interrupting themselves with a firm slam on the desk with both hands, as soon as the gnome in charge of proceedings announce the nation's name. Onlookers that were acquainted with Cessarean shenanigans in the World Assembly knew this would not be a very friendly exchange:

"You ungrateful, disobedient, backwards, flesh-eating, flesh-having, Capitalist idiots!" They shouted, leaving little doubt regarding the words used. "Have you all gone truly mad? Is this what passes for legislation these days? This is a most grave violation of Cessarea's Sovereignty and we are horrified and highly provoked by this display of insolence." The Ambassador stopped momentarily, only for dramatic effect. They laid their right hand atop a long sheathe attached to their hips - a sword. "None of you are safe outside these halls, do you hear me? We will steal, kidnap, blackmail, and kill before accepting that this ever passes into quorum. Sleep well tonight, and don't lock your doors."

Leaves-of-Blight stopped themselves, again. Perhaps they may have gone too far in a few places. They stormed out of the Drafting Chamber, leaving only one of their aides, completely overwhelmed by the entire situation. Hurriedly, he picked up a few papers that lay atop the desk, and after careful consideration, stated in a dithering tone: "C-Cessarea has some r-reservations with this proposal. W-we will submit to the authoring m-m-m..." Panic. He looked up and down several times, exchanging glances with nearby diplomats. He tapped away at a holographic console projected from his wrist a few times and rushed out of the Chamber, wailing. What he'd sent to all diplomats in the room was a list of questions, grievances, and suggested changes to text:

The World Assembly,

Recognising the lack of a standing resolution to protect the rights of sophonts who happen not to be the dominant species in a member nation since the passage of a flimsy repeal [This may be a bit too harsh for a preamble, no?] of GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species;

Hoping to solidify the rights of artificially conscious beings and non-dominant sophonts alike, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Interpretation: This resolution shall be interpreted according to the following prescriptions:

    1. A "sophont" is an organic entity possessing the ability to reason and to communicate with individuals of the same or like species. [This definition - predicated on social ability - seems needless. It might better to use the definition for ACPs, which relies on "consciousness and the ability to reason"] If one member of a species is proven to be a sophont then all other members of that species shall also be presumed sophonts, including any individual unable to meet the definition of a sophont on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

    2. An "artificially conscious program" (hereinafter ACP) is an artificial system possessing consciousness and the ability to reason. If a system is discovered to be an ACP, then a member nation shall presume any other system of sufficiently similar design as to be capable of meeting the criteria for an ACP to be itself an ACP.
  2. Personhood: Every sophont or ACP in a member nation is a person. Every member nation must grant the full rights and responsibilities of status as a natural person to every sophont or ACP under its jurisdiction.

  3. Discrimination: No member nation or entity therein may discriminate against any person on the grounds of that person's species, organic status or lack thereof. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to their species, organic status or lack thereof; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's species, organic status or lack thereof; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same. This section may be waived to the minimal extent necessary to [This entire article must go to hell and burn]:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care;

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species; or

    3. protect a group of persons from discrimination on grounds of their species, organic status or lack thereof, such as through affirmative action policies.

  4. Enforcement: Species, organic status and lack thereof, as they apply to persons, are each arbitrary and reductive [It is Cessarea's preference that the concept of "arbitrary and reductive" characteristics be replaced by that of "immutable" ones. We understand the authoring missions' preferences, though] characteristics and to be recognised as such by all member nations.

    1. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other arbitrary, reductive characteristic [Same as above].

    2. The deliberate destruction or deactivation [This criminalises suicide by making its assistance prohibited. It is also to be noted that artificial beings may be deactivated without being permanently destroyed. We would like consent to be a limiting factor here, somehow]of an ACP is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide.

  5. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that a species under its jurisdiction may be a sophont, or that an ACP may have been developed under its jurisdiction, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that species or system is in fact a sophont or ACP.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribed.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation that a species or artificial entity [We dislike the notion that a collection of artificial beings capable of reproduction and possessing a unique culture and design are not a "species"] is substantially likely to possess sophont or ACP status respectively, then a member nation must presume that the species or entity indeed possesses the said status and grant all rights associated therewith until such time as this presumption is disproven.
Last edited by Cessarea on Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
⠀The Ministerial Council of Cessarea
Local GAer | Q&A
She/they transfem.
Ask me about non-monogamy.
A nation with a history as old as time. Or so it claims.
Home to Artificials - thin machine beings who do not yet fully understand themselves.
World Assembly Diplomats
Currently in hibernation.
Logical Stimulus wrote:Every person in Starlight is the exact same to me. I can barely tell you anyone’s name except Cessarea’s. They’re all just Cessarea.
Sedgistan wrote:You are my favourite person to interact with on the NSGP server.

User avatar
Voopmont
Envoy
 
Posts: 309
Founded: Dec 19, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Voopmont » Sat Mar 29, 2025 7:37 am

Don't really have time to respond IC but I'll leave some comments:
1. There should be more clarity as to what is defined as a species. This is a topic that's inherently difficult to write about given our language is adapted to organic earth life, so it is important to be very thorough to avoid loopholes that can make the entire resolution effectively worthless. To comment on something Cessarea said:
If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation that a species or artificial entity [We dislike the notion that a collection of artificial beings capable of reproduction and possessing a unique culture and design are not a "species"] is substantially likely to possess sophont or ACP status respectively, then a member nation must presume that the species or entity indeed possesses the said status and grant all rights associated therewith until such time as this presumption is disproven.

this is an understandable concern but I dislike the part about a unique culture. In Voopmont there are many subcultures our androids fall into, and there is in many cases more cultural similarity with the other organic species than with other androids. That still in my view makes them a singular robotic species because the unique brain architecture gives them a distinct psychology. Something like this could be used to define a non-organic species, although I apologize for not providing the passage myself.

2. We are STRONGLY in favour of keeping the clause against discrimination as that is one of the key operative clauses of the resolution.

3. I agree with what Cessarea said on clause 4b regarding suicide. Assisted suicide is not the norm but I think limiting it via rider clause is generally bad practice, so this should be reworked to something like what I wrote under the quote.
The deliberate destruction or deactivation [This criminalises suicide by making its assistance prohibited. It is also to be noted that artificial beings may be deactivated without being permanently destroyed. We would like consent to be a limiting factor here, somehow]of an ACP is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide.

The deliberate destruction or deactivation of an ACP without clear, verifiable, informed, and uncoerced consent is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Likewise, any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide.
Governor, The United Federations | Author of GA#804, GA#821 | Minister of World Assembly Affairs, The North Pacific | Nation of nonhumans and spacefarers

He/They

User avatar
Fachumonn
Minister
 
Posts: 2314
Founded: Apr 11, 2021
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fachumonn » Sat Mar 29, 2025 6:07 pm

Ambassador Kostas Stelios: "At least you started with the proper format this time."

"There is a crack, a crack, in everything. That's how the light gets in." - Leonard Cohen

WA Ambassador: Kostas Stelios | Pronouns: He/Him | RL Ideology: Democratic Socialism
"We're talking about Fachy the brokeass" - Cessarea
"Welcome back to the Intfed final boss" - JL
Curse you Fachummonjnjnwenivnjiwevnjk!!!!! - Bisofeyr
"Why does the delegation from Fachumonn have no chill? Kostas Stelios needs to relax, for real." - Excidium Planetis
Positions/Accomplishments.
GA Community Resources.
Arsenal Football Club, forever loved, eternal breaker of hearts.

User avatar
The Ice States
Senator
 
Posts: 4474
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ice States » Tue Apr 01, 2025 3:03 am

"The comments given have now been addressed with an updated draft. While we recognise the ... colourful nature of some of the said comments, we maintain that Section 2 strikes an adequate balance between the right to equality and cases where making distinctions based on species is necessary."

"With regards to the suicide matter, we do not believe the draft as written would inherently criminalise either suicide itself or the act of assisting it. Section 4(b) merely designates the deactivation of an ACP as homicide, not as unlawful; only a proper subset of homicides is illegal, and if consensual homicide is legal for organic beings then the resolution merely requires that the same standard be applied for ACPs."

"We do not see a need to define species, as a standard dictionary definition is sufficient. With regards to the use of 'arbitrary and reductive', our intent is not to rely on that wording as such and rather to activate provisions in other resolutions against discrimination based on arbitrary and reductive characteristics."

"Further comments are welcome as we near submission."

~Claudia Lindner,
Deputy World Assembly Ambassador,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
Last edited by The Ice States on Tue Apr 01, 2025 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Old GA Stat Effects · Style Guide · WA Authorship

"Petty tyrant", "antithetical to a better future for the WA".

User avatar
The Ice States
Senator
 
Posts: 4474
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Ex-Nation

Postby The Ice States » Thu Apr 03, 2025 2:57 pm

"It is my pleasure to announce the addition of Excidium Planetis as a co-author to this draft. This has manifested itself in dramatic changes to both the content and the title, as the proposal has been broadened to address all discrimination rather than merely that grounded in species."

"For the record, the Eternal Union considers any disputes between the Ice States and Excidium Planetis which occurred during the reign of Kravenite-influenced communists to be resolved, and not of relevance to this draft."

~Claudia Lindner,
Deputy World Assembly Ambassador,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.
Old GA Stat Effects · Style Guide · WA Authorship

"Petty tyrant", "antithetical to a better future for the WA".

User avatar
Logical Stimulus
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 59
Founded: Mar 08, 2025
Ex-Nation

Postby Logical Stimulus » Thu Apr 03, 2025 7:41 pm

Opposed on the grounds that any universal declaration of rights amounts to strong-arming nations to conform to a specific ideology as a prerequisite to WA membership.

We are staunchly opposed to any effort by any nation to force its beliefs on us. We decide what rights our citizens deserve.

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8621
Founded: May 01, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Excidium Planetis » Thu Apr 03, 2025 7:51 pm

Logical Stimulus wrote:Opposed on the grounds that any universal declaration of rights amounts to strong-arming nations to conform to a specific ideology as a prerequisite to WA membership.

We are staunchly opposed to any effort by any nation to force its beliefs on us. We decide what rights our citizens deserve.


Cornelia Schultz, who had been observing the proceedings from a darkened corner of the room, chimes in. "Then leave the Assembly. If you do not wish to conform to what is clearly the morally right position according to this Assembly, then don't join."

She then addresses the assembled delegations present. "While my words no longer have any official weight behind them, I am aware of Ambassador Meritt's contributions to the current draft and can assure you all that Excidium Planetis fully supports the proposal as written. I hope to see it succeed as it is a worthy replacement for my humble contribution to this body."

She then exits the chamber and disappears before any Loyalists can show up.
GA Ambassador: Adelia Meritt
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
Starlight shines brighter.
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
New Halo wrote:Are you seriously going to let your fear of communism stop you from doing the right thing?
Tier 9 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.

User avatar
Dengist China
Minister
 
Posts: 3223
Founded: Jan 08, 2025
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Dengist China » Thu Apr 03, 2025 11:06 pm

The Ice States wrote:"The Eternal Union is pleased to announce its collaboration with the Kharkivan mission to replace an ancient yet relatively recently repealed resolution: Rights of Sapient Species. This draft is our foremost priority at this time."

~Claudia Lindner,
Deputy World Assembly Ambassador,
The Eternal Union of Devonia and the Ice States.


Ooc: Nothing was taken from Tinfect's older draft Convention on Personhood.

The World Assembly,

Taking note the lack of a standing resolution that broadly safeguards the rights of member nations’ inhabitants against arbitrary and unfair discrimination since the repeal of GA #35: The Charter of Civil Rights

Believing that current resolutions do not adequately address many areas of potential mistreatment, including potential supremacist sentiments that were previously prohibited by GA #355: Rights of Sapient Species;

Hoping to solidify the rights of all intelligent inhabitants of member nations, and aiming to prevent discrimination against them;

Hereby enacts as follows:

  1. Personhood: Every member nation must designate as a natural person any organic or artificial entity demonstrating the ability to reason. If one member of a species is proven to possess this ability, the species shall be presumed to be "sapient", meaning that all other members of that species shall be granted personhood even if that individual is unable to meet the criteria under this section for personhood on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.

  2. Discrimination: No person may be discriminated against on the grounds of an innate characteristic or any other characteristic protected by relevant international or national law. Discrimination includes increasing a sentence or punishment against a person due to the said characteristic; deporting a person where such deportation would not occur but for the person's possession or lack of the characteristic; and the denial of any service, right or privilege on the grounds of the same. This section may be waived to the minimal extent necessary to:

    1. limit a service to individuals for which it is relevant, for example organic status being a prerequisite to access reproductive care;

    2. prevent imminent danger to a population, such as removing individuals of a particular species from an area where they are at risk of an imminent disaster affecting only that species; or

    3. ensure equity amongst different groups based on the said characteristic, such as through affirmative action policies.

  3. Investigations: Upon receiving evidence that an entity under its jurisdiction may meet the criteria for personhood under Section 1, a member nation must perform an impartial investigation into whether that entity in fact does so.

    1. A member nation may delegate this responsibility to any entity outside of or within that member nation. The Nonpartisan Organisation for Nonhuman, Interstellar and Terrestrial Entities (hereinafter "NONITE") is established and may perform an investigation as per this section should a member nation request such or fail to conduct an investigation as prescribed.

    2. If it is discovered during or prior to an investigation to be substantially likely that a species is sapient, or that an entity meets the criteria for personhood, then a member nation must presume the same to be true until such time as this presumption is disproven.

    3. Every member nation must recognise any designation by NONITE of a species as sapient, or an entity as possessing Section 1 personhood. NONITE may grant such designation without conducting its own investigation if and only if such a determination has been previously reached in a reliable investigation by an impartial entity.

  4. Enforcement: The deliberate destruction or decommissioning of an artificial system possessing Section 1 personhood is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other characteristic protected by national or international law.


Co-authors: Excidium Planetis, The Kharkivan Cossacks.

Basically our religious discrim law without the religious bit.

Full support. This has been needed for... ages.
Current:
Governor of Tinga
Master of the arts of Empires Forever United
House Speaker & Minister of World Assembly Affairs, Aesica

Former:
Speaker of the Damned of Hell
Ambassador of Hell to Hells Lounge
Embassy officer of Regionless.
Tingan Minister of Foreign Affairs
Tingan Roleplay Manager
Tingan General Secretary/Sec of Sec
Haymarket Riot wrote:Cool, I identify as a mod.

*bans player for transphobia*
Lusitanic wrote:I prayed "God, make my enemies ridiculous"... and He sent me to General on the NationStates forums.

User avatar
First Nightmare
Diplomat
 
Posts: 504
Founded: Apr 27, 2018
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby First Nightmare » Fri Apr 04, 2025 5:53 am

Personhood: Every member nation must designate as a natural person any organic or artificial entity demonstrating the ability to reason. If one member of a species is proven to possess this ability, the species shall be presumed to be "sapient", meaning that all other members of that species shall be granted personhood even if that individual is unable to meet the criteria under this section for personhood on their own due to the presence of a debilitating condition or that individual being yet to reach sufficient maturity to meet that definition.


Enforcement: The deliberate destruction or decommissioning of an artificial system possessing Section 1 personhood is recognised as homicide, and shall be penalised by every member nation in the same manner as a homicide against an organic person in the same conditions. Any act intended to destroy a population based on members' species, organic status or lack thereof is an act of genocide. Every member nation must act against any crime or violence motivated by the victim's species, organic status or lack thereof as it would do for any other characteristic protected by national or international law.


The ability to reason isn't the only factor we would take in. The nature of the species is also critically important(e.g. parasite)
OOC:Also known as Old Hope

User avatar
Logical Stimulus
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 59
Founded: Mar 08, 2025
Ex-Nation

Postby Logical Stimulus » Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:14 pm

Excidium Planetis wrote:
Logical Stimulus wrote:Opposed on the grounds that any universal declaration of rights amounts to strong-arming nations to conform to a specific ideology as a prerequisite to WA membership.

We are staunchly opposed to any effort by any nation to force its beliefs on us. We decide what rights our citizens deserve.


Cornelia Schultz, who had been observing the proceedings from a darkened corner of the room, chimes in. "Then leave the Assembly. If you do not wish to conform to what is clearly the morally right position according to this Assembly, then don't join."

She then addresses the assembled delegations present. "While my words no longer have any official weight behind them, I am aware of Ambassador Meritt's contributions to the current draft and can assure you all that Excidium Planetis fully supports the proposal as written. I hope to see it succeed as it is a worthy replacement for my humble contribution to this body."

She then exits the chamber and disappears before any Loyalists can show up.

You aren't terribly certain if this is the same person you were talking before, or if every single person from Logical Stimulus looks exactly alike...

"Thank you for making my point for me, Ambassador. Your appeals to moral superiority are exactly the reason we will not be leaving the Assembly. You claim to revere reason and individualism through your posting of support for this resolution, but your response to a nation and a national leader with a value system different from yours is 'kiss the ring or leave.'

We will do neither. The third way begins with the defeat of this proposal."

The representative leaves the room and is greeted by two more who look suspiciously identical.

User avatar
Excidium Planetis
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8621
Founded: May 01, 2014
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Excidium Planetis » Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:26 pm

Logical Stimulus wrote:You aren't terribly certain if this is the same person you were talking before, or if every single person from Logical Stimulus looks exactly alike...

"Thank you for making my point for me, Ambassador. Your appeals to moral superiority are exactly the reason we will not be leaving the Assembly. You claim to revere reason and individualism through your posting of support for this resolution, but your response to a nation and a national leader with a value system different from yours is 'kiss the ring or leave.'

We will do neither. The third way begins with the defeat of this proposal."

The representative leaves the room and is greeted by two more who look suspiciously identical.


Schultz had long left the room by the time the Ambassador(?) for the unknown nation replied to her, but Adelia Meritt had arrived at the drafting chamber in time to catch the transcription.

She looks at the two new arrivals. "W-what, I believe, my acquaintance Ms Schultz means, uh, is that your p-position of total opposition to policy change, is, you see, at logical odds with y-your participation in the Assembly, which necessarily r-requires compliance with its l-legislation. It's not merely a matter of morals, it's just unreasonable to v-voluntarily enter into a union that you are ideologically at odds with and t-then insist that it's the, the union that needs to c-change, and not yourselves. I think if you want to be left alone, you, uh, really would probably be happier not being part of this Assembly."
Last edited by Excidium Planetis on Fri Apr 04, 2025 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GA Ambassador: Adelia Meritt
Ex-Ambassador: Cornelia Schultz, author of GA#355 and GA#368.
Starlight shines brighter.
Singaporean Transhumans wrote:You didn't know about Excidium? The greatest space nomads in the NS multiverse with a healthy dose (read: over 9000 percent) of realism?
Saveyou Island wrote:"Warmest welcomes to the Assembly, ambassador. You'll soon learn to hate everyone here."
New Halo wrote:Are you seriously going to let your fear of communism stop you from doing the right thing?
Tier 9 nation, according to my index.Made of nomadic fleets.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General Assembly

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bura Barkka, Neues franken

Advertisement

Remove ads