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[DEFEATED] [GA#590 SUB!] Police Accountability Act

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The Overmind
Diplomat
 
Posts: 965
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 10:58 am

WeSuckia wrote:Since I have been recently informed that my old thread had been merged into this, i'll repost my initial post. :)
To reiterate:
The PAA (Police Accountability act) is worthless, and if passed, will make the World Assembly even more invasive. Let me explain. ;)
Notably, Tinhampton has sent out a mass telegram to thousands of countries and WA delegates across the world.
This is obviously a ploy to get us countries to have empathy for TInhampton because they spent a pretty penny to get this passed.
(According to the telegram, he spent 12 pounds sending it)
He obviously knows that the results of this are extremely close together, and that all will go to waste if he doesn't pass it.

Going away from TInhampton, the PAA will carve out our police force, effectively making the WA in control of the rules of our police force.
We should be able to control our own police force without the World Assembly holding our hands.

This is why, to all suckers and like minded thinkers, to vote AGAINST this tyrannical act, and to improve our national independence. :)


A telegram campaign is a campaign, not a ploy, and is fairly common in this body. This also does not give the World Assembly any control over member nation law enforcement, beyond requiring member nations to hold their own LEOs accountable.
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WeSuckia
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Mar 16, 2022
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby WeSuckia » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:01 am

The Overmind wrote:
WeSuckia wrote:Since I have been recently informed that my old thread had been merged into this, i'll repost my initial post. :)
To reiterate:
The PAA (Police Accountability act) is worthless, and if passed, will make the World Assembly even more invasive. Let me explain. ;)
Notably, Tinhampton has sent out a mass telegram to thousands of countries and WA delegates across the world.
This is obviously a ploy to get us countries to have empathy for TInhampton because they spent a pretty penny to get this passed.
(According to the telegram, he spent 12 pounds sending it)
He obviously knows that the results of this are extremely close together, and that all will go to waste if he doesn't pass it.

Going away from TInhampton, the PAA will carve out our police force, effectively making the WA in control of the rules of our police force.
We should be able to control our own police force without the World Assembly holding our hands.

This is why, to all suckers and like minded thinkers, to vote AGAINST this tyrannical act, and to improve our national independence. :)


A telegram campaign is a campaign, not a ploy, and is fairly common in this body. This also does not give the World Assembly any control over member nation law enforcement, beyond requiring member nations to hold their own LEOs accountable.

We shouldn't have to have an act requiring us to hold our police accountable for their actions, it should be depending on a country's responsibility to enforce laws against their police officers.
This is just invasive into our own country's military structure, which we can all manage ourselves.
LET ME PUT MODS ON MY FOES LIST!!!!!!
i also lobbied against the police accountability act :D

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Bisofeyr
Envoy
 
Posts: 300
Founded: Nov 26, 2023
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Bisofeyr » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:15 pm

WeSuckia wrote:
Oromos wrote:And who is supposed to check whenever the state uses police forces "correctly"? The World Assembly? In my opinion it's just another resolution, that's made to increase the control of the most influential states, and interfere with states' domestic policy. It will allow for exploitation of slightiest forms of abuse in order to sanction and punish political enemies of those with most power. I say; we shouldn't interefere with one's domestic policy, and the World Assembly should focus only on keeping world peace.

I completely agree with you, the World Assembly is clearly overstepping it's boundaries by stepping into a nation's personal matters. :)
While I have no qualms with, say, a nuclear proliferation act, an act making the WA able to effectively court our police forces with this, is just simply unacceptable. >:(

"My nation takes a similar stance on the proceedings of this Assembly. While we wholly appreciate the extent of brutality by law enforcement officers in many nations, by passing a ban to this extent, you effectively discourage nations who ought to abide the other issues brought forth by the Assembly, which are truly international issues, from becoming members, thus making the overall intention of the World Assembly less effective."

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Afghanistan DRA
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Oct 07, 2021
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Afghanistan DRA » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:25 pm

This delegation finds the statements made here very encouraging, even more so given that GA 590 appears to be failing and won't be passed despite Tinhampton's mass telegram.

Hurray for sovereignty!

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Dauchh Palki
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: Aug 08, 2021
Capitalizt

Postby Dauchh Palki » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:30 pm

The Ice States wrote:Reposting from here for posterity, the following tag:wa telegram was sent as to this proposal,
Please vote for the Police Accountability Act.

I am Tinhampton, the author of the Police Accountability Act. I would like to tell you why it is so important that you vote for it. A vote for my proposal means that you want it to become law in your nation and many others.

Police officers - who I describe as "LEOs" (law enforcement officers) in my proposal - work in many nations to keep innocent people safe and arrest suspected criminals. Unfortunately, some of them use too much force against other people while they are on duty. I have written the Act to ensure that justice is done against these few LEOs, and to encourage the many other LEOs not to copy them.

A lot of misinformation is spreading about the Act. The spread of this misinformation is contributing to the fact that it is currently losing by 6,150 votes to 5,500. Some people say that it is too vague. Other people say that it will not fit all nations. A few have even said that they will leave the World Assembly if it passes.

I have spent around £12 on bringing this telegram to you, and to everyone who needs to hear it*. That could buy me a good book or a nice lunch... or four cups of coffee. Instead, I am using it to educate you about what the Police Accountability Act will mean for your nation, and to ensure that you know why the claims being made about my Act are false.

I would also like to assure you that the Police Accountability Act will be a net positive for all of your citizens: for your LEOs; for the people who employ them; and for those who interact with the police. Here are some important points that I want you to feel safe and secure about.
  • The Act allows you to punish excessive force appropriately. Some LEOs use excessive force once, by mistake. Some LEOs repeatedly use excessive force over a period of years or decades. The Act requires that both of them must be punished, but welcomes harsher punishment for more serious offences - as the law should do.
  • The Act says that, if your nation cannot afford body-worn cameras or has not developed them, then your LEOs do not need to wear them. If you are willing or able to supply them to police officers, then they must be supplied. This is common sense.
  • The Act requires that each use of force be reviewed once. Re-reviews are optional, but allowed. Reviews of past incidents are optional, but also allowed. I don't say how often the reviews must take place because if I said (for example) "every three months," that would mean different things for different nations - three months could be the blink of an eye for one nation; multiple times the life expectancy for another.
  • The Act contains a clear definition of a LEO. A LEO is someone who is employed by a law enforcement agency (such as a police department) in your nation, and doing law enforcement work (such as arresting people and patrolling the streets) which is needed by that agency. A soldier is not a LEO. A member of a militia, liberation front, or armed terrorist organisation is not a LEO. This proposal will not allow anyone else to invade your nation.
  • The Act is a safeguard against future failings in your police force. Today, your police may be fair, honest and trustworthy. But in the future, some of them may be interested in using excessive force against criminals, innocent people, or other LEOs. My proposal will ensure that they will be removed from policing and brought to justice - helping to restore public trust in your nation's law enforcement.
  • The Act contains an enforcement mechanism. There is a special law called the Administrative Compliance Act which says that, if you do not comply with any WA law - including my proposal, when it passes - you will have to pay a massive fine. If you do not pay this fine, then no WA state will do trade with you. Because the Administrative Compliance Act exists, I do not need to say in the Police Accountability Act how it will be enforced.

These are some of the many reasons why you should not be afraid to support my proposal. If, after reading this telegram, you believe that it will be beneficial for your nation or the world in general, then I encourage you to go here, and vote FOR the Police Accountability Act.

Thank you!

*: You should have been excluded from this telegram if you voted in favour of this proposal, or live in one of the ten excluded regions at the header of this telegram (all of whom either are NatSov, party to the Modern Gameplay Compact, or have policies against tag:wa telegrams). Please let me know if you got this telegram despite supporting this proposal and/or living in one of these regions!

Thankyou, I block most stuff from entering my inbox since its annoying.

Anyways, we didn't want to vote for this proposal due to Tim spending $15 bucks on it and the pretentious attitude of those saying, "NaTiOnAL SOvEreiGnTy IsN't A cOnCERn sInCe YOu jOiNeD tHe WA!"

Conceding that all concerns about the obstruction of national sovereignty are valid but believing the resolution provides enough leeway related to how nations go about being compliant with the act, and though we wish there was not a mandate of body-cameras (even though we already mandate that in our police forces);

We find that this resolution would significantly help to resolve the issue it seeks to resolve, that being police brutality, and that there are no significant drawbacks, so we will be voting FOR

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Dauchh Palki
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: Aug 08, 2021
Capitalizt

Postby Dauchh Palki » Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:39 pm

WeSuckia wrote:Since I have been recently informed that my old thread had been merged into this, i'll repost my initial post. :)
To reiterate:
The PAA (Police Accountability act) is worthless, and if passed, will make the World Assembly even more invasive. Let me explain. ;)
Notably, Tinhampton has sent out a mass telegram to thousands of countries and WA delegates across the world.
This is obviously a ploy to get us countries to have empathy for TInhampton because they spent a pretty penny to get this passed.
(According to the telegram, he spent 12 pounds sending it)
He obviously knows that the results of this are extremely close together, and that all will go to waste if he doesn't pass it.

Going away from TInhampton, the PAA will carve out our police force, effectively making the WA in control of the rules of our police force.
We should be able to control our own police force without the World Assembly holding our hands.

This is why, to all suckers and like minded thinkers, to vote AGAINST this tyrannical act, and to improve our national independence. :)


Look, I'm all for demonizing people who post WA resolutions, but I don't see an issue with Tim spending money to raise awareness and get his message across (I mean, I assume a lot of nations just vote for resolutions based on who the current majority is)
This resolution in a nutshell is just "cops should only use force when necessary, and they need to wear cameras to prove their compliance."

:lol2: if you think that's too much oversight, then vote AGAINST, but I think you're grasping for straws here trying to find new ways to make this resolution awful.
Last edited by Dauchh Palki on Fri Apr 12, 2024 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Overmind
Diplomat
 
Posts: 965
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:13 pm

Dauchh Palki wrote:and the pretentious attitude of those saying, "NaTiOnAL SOvEreiGnTy IsN't A cOnCERn sInCe YOu jOiNeD tHe WA!"


It would maybe be pretentious if it wasn't in response to a constant deluge of NatSov only arguments against just about every proposal to pass through this chamber. If you are so concerned about your national sovereignty that international law is generally odious to you, joining the WA was just a bad idea.
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San Dogs
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 6
Founded: Aug 23, 2022
Corporate Police State

San Dogs' Position

Postby San Dogs » Fri Apr 12, 2024 2:29 pm

"As a representative of The People's Republic of San Dogs, this act will hurt our beautiful and divine nation if it is passed. This distasteful act hurts our competent and patriotic police force who everyday risk their life and make their community safer. This act could give an upper hand to criminals who bring a wonderful community down. The safety of citizens always comes first and the low life of deadbeat criminals dead last. We in The People's Republic of San Dogs believed in every citizen should fear their government and not expect to a slap on the wrist for their crimes. Therefore, I , as a representative of The People's Republic of San Dogs, will be voting Against this act."

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Free Social Conservatives
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Posts: 526
Founded: Apr 04, 2023
Free-Market Paradise

Postby Free Social Conservatives » Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:03 pm

The Overmind wrote:
Dauchh Palki wrote:and the pretentious attitude of those saying, "NaTiOnAL SOvEreiGnTy IsN't A cOnCERn sInCe YOu jOiNeD tHe WA!"


It would maybe be pretentious if it wasn't in response to a constant deluge of NatSov only arguments against just about every proposal to pass through this chamber. If you are so concerned about your national sovereignty that international law is generally odious to you, joining the WA was just a bad idea.

Or maybe an international organization ought to stop putting legislation everywhere it can think of when that only expands the org way past what any international org is able to and supposed to do. The people of the multiverse have no need for over stretched, oversized org in place of an actual well functioning legislative body to have general oversight over real, massive, universal issues such as international geopolitics between hundreds of nations.
Last edited by Free Social Conservatives on Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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The Overmind
Diplomat
 
Posts: 965
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:55 pm

Free Social Conservatives wrote:
The Overmind wrote:
It would maybe be pretentious if it wasn't in response to a constant deluge of NatSov only arguments against just about every proposal to pass through this chamber. If you are so concerned about your national sovereignty that international law is generally odious to you, joining the WA was just a bad idea.

Or maybe an international organization ought to stop putting legislation everywhere it can think of when that only expands the org way past what any international org is able to and supposed to do. The people of the multiverse have no need for over stretched, oversized org in place of an actual well functioning legislative body to have general oversight over real, massive, universal issues such as international geopolitics between hundreds of nations.


Or maybe you could leave.

NatSov is not an argument. If you have something to actually contribute, like specifically why this proposal is overreach, then I'm all ears.
Last edited by The Overmind on Fri Apr 12, 2024 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Free Palestine

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Dauchh Palki
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: Aug 08, 2021
Capitalizt

Postby Dauchh Palki » Fri Apr 12, 2024 6:25 pm

The Overmind wrote:
Dauchh Palki wrote:and the pretentious attitude of those saying, "NaTiOnAL SOvEreiGnTy IsN't A cOnCERn sInCe YOu jOiNeD tHe WA!"


It would maybe be pretentious if it wasn't in response to a constant deluge of NatSov only arguments against just about every proposal to pass through this chamber. If you are so concerned about your national sovereignty that international law is generally odious to you, joining the WA was just a bad idea.


Obviously you concede a bit of your sovereignty to get stuff done, but sometimes it's just better to leave stuff to the memberstates; (The point of this resolution and others is to step in where some nations fail though) The WA does not to be butting into things like gun regulations, multiculturalism, or policies on marriage. We don't need the WA to mandate that certain capital city names should be banned (Though I doubt that would ever happen.)

Additionally, some nations join WA for regional politics and may not want the resolutions to affect their stats if they disagree with those resolutions.
Last edited by Dauchh Palki on Fri Apr 12, 2024 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13729
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:03 pm

"Police Accountability Act" was defeated 8,018 votes to 6,976. (46.53% support)

The World Assembly has made itself loud and clear: police officers should be allowed to use deadly force against bystanders and other innocent people. There should be no law, no provision, preventing them from doing this. Regulation of police forces is an issue rightly reserved to the member states, and will remain so for the foreseeable future.

If anyone is interested in helping me ensure that this attitude is no longer reflected in the laws, or lack thereof, of the World Assembly, I will be submitting a new draft in about 228 hours. Please comment on it with as much conviction as you feel necessary. If your comments are absent, I will have to assume that the World Assembly does not have the appetite to enact serious policing reform for at least three or four years, possibly even six.

And after that point, what sort of reform is to arise? Will permanent immunity for all actions committed as a police officer, however egregious, be inscribed into the law? Will there be a straight blocker on these sorts of affairs? Or will someone else once more take up the mantle of justice? This is your decision to make. It is not mine.

For: 6,976: Kethania (614), Merlovich (424), Astrobolt (228), Typica (180), Asunnia (166), Socialist Platypus (125), Levont (111), United Asahi (108), Danslandia (94), Rayekka (89), Moukden and Kirin (83), Student Loan Debt (81), Deims Kir (78), South Boston Irishmen (76), Verdant Haven (76), Koronic (74), Wintermoot (66), Mark (59), Lesser Velutaria (45), Courelli (41), Tinhampton (39), San Pera (37), WonGya (35), Shanlix (30), Akhand Bharatam (29), Suvmia (29), Parkplace (28), Ventus Prime (28), Haymarket Riot (28), West Nichibotsu (26), Alinek (25), Great United Columbia (25), James R Kennedy (23), Tostandia (21), Marquess of Marchmain (21), Landbang Rkipo Islands (21), Awesomeness (20), Japuile (19), Hemogard (19), Lamoni (19), Random small European state (18), Joaozinho (16), Rumanian States (15), ARIsyan- (14), Delmond (14), Heromerland (13), Fachumonn (13), Jeeves Land (11), Kingdom Of Englands (11), Franconia Empire (11), Togon (11), Felix Femboi (11), Gran River (11), South Newlandia (10), Pantasio (10), Santa Thereza (10), Valvia (10), Wolfs Brigade (9), Bollocksville (9), Hydroponic Nation (8), Galaxity (8), RealTacoMan (8), Nomezzia (7), Sheniana (7), Haaton Prime (7), Miraregna (7), South China Sea Islands (7), Polomon Islands (7), Crypthic (7), Tyra Melin (7), Quasi-Stellar Star Civilizations (6), New AnorLondo (6), Oi Barbaroi (6), Zvlokiquix (6), Free Aratinshvand (6), French New Wake Island (6), Kzdor (6), Anti-void (5), Bimflurpity (5), The Soviet state of Svalbard (5), Pan-Europe (5), Charliston (5), Neocortexia (5), Fetra (5), Lysset (5), Pancakeon (5), Egyptian Arabia (5), Oder-Land (5), Stratocratic-Anarchy Oceanic Empire (4), Ymeuura (4), Landfield (4), Gilgit Amphhary (4), Xoshya (4), East Lago (4), Betashock (4), Dimension Facilities (4), Arewa republic (4), Asase Lewa (4), Duke nukem 2 eletric boogaloo (4), Greater Doges (4), NinjitsUtopia (4), Wadelhelpia (4), Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord (4), Glongo (4), OmegaShenron (4), Island of Avalon (4), The Ruby Ranch Republic (4), Aresan America (3), Alkhen-Morrensk (3), Earth Fedration (3), The Jamdoin (3), 11 Templar Knights (3), Osheiga (3), Giathio (3), The Grand Kingdom of Elsweyr (3), Weyland Yutani (3), Dwarf High Kingdom (3), The Holland (3), Chemicala (3), Hyped Vil (3), Banobia (3), Wozmania (3), Tricorniolis (3), Kindjal (3), Southern Caek Saimatertoutari (3), Aanlin Mra (3), Limitata (3), Zxanixia (3), Shipletary (3), The United States of Azania (2), Richomp (2), Zombiedolphins (2), Vonum (2), Franceandma (2), North Reyland (2), United American States And Provisences (2), Factorio Inc (2), Musonia (2), Jakapil Island (2), Reformed Che Wesiaia (2), FriedEgg (2), Gamdie (2), Palaubania (2), Svinska imperiy (2), Bahan Wortemburg (2), The Akasha Colony (2), Incorporated States of New California (2), Bobraqia (2), Shnrubton (2), Nouveau Strasbourg (2), NorPac Liberation Front (2), Lysagoria (2), Japan and America (2), Nitropol (2), Doumeira (2), The Great Draga Empire (2), The Terren Dominion (2), Usual People In Life (2), 1st Mockba Air Squadron (2), Grand Nova Englandia (2), Oldemburgos (2), The Shadow Fold (2), The Ancient World (2), Kunskil (2), Osmos (2), Solumnia (2), Sedgistan (2), Britain land (2), Zhensheng Xue (2), The Utes (2), Anaity (2), Bukalas (2), Golladonia (2), Gweriniaeth Kymry (2), Hetairaea (2), Sashilee (2), Sarvanti (2), Doestyovsky (2), Golanchia (2), Lehqhbraot (2), Molopovia (2), and (2,986) individual member nations.

Against: 8,018: Kaschovia (826), Ebonhand (611), Imperium Anglorum (585), East Durthang (363), Overthinkers (351), Dragonian Kazaman (257), Dakota (226), UPC (215), Mechanocracy (191), Creeperopolis (160), The Glorious Hypetrain (74), Yodle (68), Rayo de Sol (61), Vancouvia (61), Vobron (58), 9006 (56), Witchcraft and Sorcery (54), Mikeswill (50), Romanovskaya (44), The Salaxalans (40), Hulldom (35), Kuroluce (34), Alexandropol (30), Maurnindaia (25), Roylaii (23), Eshington (21), Filipino North Carolina (20), Walbard (19), Vantier (19), Mesothallania (19), Zuuri (18), NewTexas (18), Faralried (17), The Black Wolves (17), Orioni 2 (17), Gideon (17), Aquilea Empire (16), Smarterial (15), Kantabria (15), Nationuraniume (14), Lungha (14), Eco-Paris Reformation (14), Kolatis (13), Amgus (13), Fort Peoria (13), Ter Landia (12), Sociedade de Nisyales (11), Man Im Dead Ong (11), Josephtan (11), Corgium (11), Rivierenland (11), The Kharkivan Cossacks (10), Yemenn (10), Xvraks (10), Toriniall (10), Metalicraftian Empire (10), Midnight Querria (9), The Bolivian Socialist Falange (9), The Voltarum (8), Cassiopeus (8), Estonian Crown (8), Jillopian (8), Qamara (8), Royal Luwein (8), Hajirah (8), Arvadia (7), Tordek Redfist (7), YourAverageRedHead (7), Steal Your Face (7), Venova (7), The New Moskau (7), Mitzvah (7), The Pastry Union (7), Namoon (6), Shadow Land of Mordor (6), Ancientania (6), Kanashia (6), Shakalam (6), Maas (6), New Delfos (6), Madrocea (6), Voxija (5), United Eurasia union (5), ComyBasturd (5), Isle of Westland (5), Rust Islands (5), Copperlan (5), Imperial Dhoutaland (5), J Class (4), Histarctica (4), Denipala (4), Azhdar (4), Gorutimania (4), WaffenBrightonburg (4), SUPER-EARTHH (4), The Palentine (4), South Sulphur (4), Vulxo (4), Tamiara (4), Musically Gingers (4), Imafraid Jumitebeinagang (4), Mandanii Republics (4), The Grand Republic Of Siepressia (3), Dog Island (3), Hillandia (3), Shattered Cascadia (3), Suey (3), Northern Germanic Empire (3), The Surviving Canadian Resistance (3), Phoenicia- (3), Nueva Espanola (3), Sentalia (3), Aalesund (3), Ideal world (3), Wobbegong (3), Liechteinshtain (3), Great Libertona (3), Suzi Island (3), Chap Ven (3), Of The Germanic Empire (3), Cacique (3), Music Man (3), Union of Noovistian (3), British Arzelentaxmacone (3), Endelus (3), Flor-Fina (3), Pax civitatibus (3), Wabacha (3), Botiverse (3), SovietUnionV3 (3), Stauton (3), Vorkat (3), Ala Mogus (3), Utquiagvik (3), Nova Scoti (2), North Texia (2), Adeiatic (2), Hardonius (2), GraySoap (2), Hegemonie (2), Dytarma (2), The principality of Anaquill (2), Skavenholm (2), Chemung (2), Gotop (2), Neilandic Tribes (2), Variemai (2), Kiev-Russ (2), Lux Cite Machinconic (2), Nunchia (2), The Goontalve Andeettedi (2), Mancel Rictor (2), Floridor (2), Iridulia (2), DuQland (2), 1-502nd Airborne Inf (2), Holy Chris (2), Juelsborg (2), Lacmhacarh (2), Bammvia (2), Kratios (2), Arstotzkan (2), North Agreah (2), Djeeta (2), Vologda State (2), Kusaland (2), Tyrannic utopia (2), Human Rights violations 2 (2), Bootyswana04 (2), BigBelly (2), Dregonia (2), Uniara (2), Walt DisneyWorld (2), Torvien (2), Bali Kingdom (2), Yridan (2), North Nixia (2), Ferret Civilization (2), Marius Republic (2), Tiber and Rione (2), Self-Titled (2), New Isman (2), Barima (2), Nihil Aeternum (2), That one guy (2), Making Catgirls Real (2), The 80th Ecalpan Dragoons (2), Teardown (2), St-Louis Battlehawks (2), Lucanie (2), United Dependencies (2), Intland (2), The Immortal Fire Nation (2), Kosmograd (2), United Lammunist Republic (2), CrossVegas (2), Nazbolandia (2), Nytocho (2), Romae memoria (2), Disruptia (2), Ravemath (2), Brazil FS (2), Korean Nations (2), The Holy Spirits (2), Buttcoom (2), The Black Siberian Army (2), Roclovis (2), Wintrich (2), Cascade Falls (2), Raccquesi (2), Naughty Slave Girls (2), THe cHadS (2), South Castrop Rauxel (2), and (2,551) individual member nations.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri Apr 12, 2024 9:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading Possession by A.S. Byatt

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Attempted Socialism
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1691
Founded: Feb 21, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:43 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
"Police Accountability Act" was defeated 8,018 votes to 6,976. (46.53% support)

The World Assembly has made itself loud and clear: police officers should be allowed to use deadly force against bystanders and other innocent people.

That's not true and you know it. Your resolution was defeated because of your actions in Gameplay, not for any desire to allow police to use deadly force without accountability.
You might not like it, you might not want it, you might find it crass, but the decisive votes against the resolution were determined before we even considered the text of the resolution.


Represented in the World Assembly by Ambassador Robert Mortimer Pride, called The Regicide
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The Ice States
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3073
Founded: Jun 23, 2022
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Ice States » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:51 pm

Attempted Socialism wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:
"Police Accountability Act" was defeated 8,018 votes to 6,976. (46.53% support)

The World Assembly has made itself loud and clear: police officers should be allowed to use deadly force against bystanders and other innocent people.

That's not true and you know it. Your resolution was defeated because of your actions in Gameplay, not for any desire to allow police to use deadly force without accountability.
You might not like it, you might not want it, you might find it crass, but the decisive votes against the resolution were determined before we even considered the text of the resolution.

That this was defeated on grounds of guilt by (tenuous) association is about as damning as that it was defeated on grounds of Natsov or other merit-based grounds. The sanctions are, frankly, harmful to both community health and the Ic game, but that doesn't matter when the goal is to advance a Gameplay conflict by whatever means possible.
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The Overmind
Diplomat
 
Posts: 965
Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:56 pm

Attempted Socialism wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:
"Police Accountability Act" was defeated 8,018 votes to 6,976. (46.53% support)

The World Assembly has made itself loud and clear: police officers should be allowed to use deadly force against bystanders and other innocent people.

That's not true and you know it. Your resolution was defeated because of your actions in Gameplay, not for any desire to allow police to use deadly force without accountability.
You might not like it, you might not want it, you might find it crass, but the decisive votes against the resolution were determined before we even considered the text of the resolution.


Can you really blame Tinhampton for being frustrated? This is hardly the first time their at-vote probably would have succeeded if not for the author factor. Lots of work goes into these proposals, and the results -- and not just for the work put into them -- merit support. That people choose regional politics over legislative merit does not change the fact that Tinhampton is right: the value system of those opposed to this passing on GP grounds belies a lack of urgency to reform law enforcement within the context of the international roleplay that the General Assembly represents. That there is some real, substantive, argument to be made against the proposal, and some have indeed made it, also doesn't change the fact that, as you pointed out, this likely would have passed if not for purely political reasons.
Last edited by The Overmind on Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Nu Elysium
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Posts: 216
Founded: Jan 26, 2024
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nu Elysium » Fri Apr 12, 2024 11:59 pm

Tinhampton wrote:police officers should be allowed to use deadly force against bystanders and other innocent people.

DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Attempted Socialism
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Attempted Socialism » Sat Apr 13, 2024 2:25 am

The Ice States wrote:
Attempted Socialism wrote:That's not true and you know it. Your resolution was defeated because of your actions in Gameplay, not for any desire to allow police to use deadly force without accountability.
You might not like it, you might not want it, you might find it crass, but the decisive votes against the resolution were determined before we even considered the text of the resolution.

That this was defeated on grounds of guilt by (tenuous) association is about as damning as that it was defeated on grounds of Natsov or other merit-based grounds. The sanctions are, frankly, harmful to both community health and the Ic game, but that doesn't matter when the goal is to advance a Gameplay conflict by whatever means possible.

I disagree that this is tenuous association, that it is as damning as NatSov, or that the sanctions are harmful to community health. But my point was that The World Assembly would probably have voted for this resolution if the author had been a different one. The decisive votes did not take policy into account when determining to vote against. That was decided by the author's Gameplay affiliations. You're free to think whatever you want about that, but the proposal was doomed for political grounds, not policy.

The Overmind wrote:
Attempted Socialism wrote:That's not true and you know it. Your resolution was defeated because of your actions in Gameplay, not for any desire to allow police to use deadly force without accountability.
You might not like it, you might not want it, you might find it crass, but the decisive votes against the resolution were determined before we even considered the text of the resolution.


Can you really blame Tinhampton for being frustrated? This is hardly the first time their at-vote probably would have succeeded if not for the author factor. (...) also doesn't change the fact that, as you pointed out, this likely would have passed if not for purely political reasons.

I really can't blame Tinhampton for being frustrated. I would be more than frustrated, in her shoes. If Tinhampton thinks this was defeated for crass political expediency that is very understandable, given her point of view. I could go into what Gameplay choices she has made, and what steps she could make to avoid this in the future, but this is neither the time nor the place. I just wanted to push back on the notion that this was defeated on policy grounds. It wasn't. The decisive votes were decided before policy was even considered, and both you, Ice States, Tinhampton, and I know that.


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Calyxion
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 3
Founded: Sep 14, 2023
Father Knows Best State

Postby Calyxion » Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:20 am

If I'd check NS more often, I'd have voted Against, thanks to the telegram.

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The Overmind
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Founded: Dec 12, 2022
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby The Overmind » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:13 am

Calyxion wrote:If I'd check NS more often, I'd have voted Against, thanks to the telegram.

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Qamara
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Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 07, 2024
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Qamara » Sat Apr 13, 2024 4:24 am

Tinhampton wrote:What proposals say cannot be changed at the voting stage. Also I don't see the need to use disproportionate force to protect other, or unrelated, people from harm; if anything that would allow the use of such force in arrest.

I was initially FOR but after reading Also I don't see the need to use disproportionate force to protect other, or unrelated, people from harm I switched my vote to AGAINST. My law enforcement is supposed to protect the public and the intentions of this resolution clearly didn't allow for that.

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Lower Antegria
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Mar 10, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Lower Antegria » Sat Apr 13, 2024 5:18 am

As much as I'm sympathetic to both sides of the argument in regards to Tinhampton's gameplay actions, I believe a resolution like this should be passed eventually however with a few adjustments based on the more notable complaints around this resolution (i.e. Tinhampton's conduct, the resolution being a bit vague around use of disproportionate force to protect others rather than the officer themselves, the vagueness around whether exceptional circumstances around a nation's police force apply or who defines disproportionate force etc.)

1. The revised resolution should be headed up by someone other than Tinhampton (Because as much as they have put their heart, soul, and £/$ into this resolution, the revised resolution would be tarred from association with Tinhampton due to the controversy over the mass telegram advertising and response thereafter. This because even ignoring notable (I'm not naming them) regions boycotting this resolution due to this controversy, there exists a considerable number of individual nations who claim snarky or rude telegrams from Tinhampton after responding to the mass telegram. Therefore if supporters of this resolution and Tinhampton themselves want the new resolution to have a chance at passing - they should publicly distance themselves from the remake and make only minor contributions.)

2. The revised resolution should be clearer around use of disproportionate force to protect others rather than the officer themselves, the vagueness around whether exceptional circumstances around a nation's police force apply or who defines disproportionate force.

3. There should be a public dispatch or OOC declaration around how this resolution and WA resolutions interact with nation specific roleplay around police forces or dictatorial or autocratic states (i.e. how a nation technically be in contravention of WA resolutions through drugs laws and so on but there is no actual OOC punishment besides region liberation and roleplay punishments)

4. The resolution should be renamed to avoid association with the previous and more controversial version.


(P.S I voted For the resolution for nation roleplay reasons - just wanted to declare that)

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Genfernation
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Aug 07, 2023
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Genfernation » Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:22 am

My country is imperfect, but we have no crime. I like it that way.

Tinhampton has a terrible crime problem and no police force. She can govern her country however she wants to. But it just seems bizarre that a country that allows crime should be trying to make all other WA countries change their policing practices. It would be like making a drunk driver head of a driving school.

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Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7925
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Apr 13, 2024 9:30 am

Lower Antegria wrote:3. There should be a public dispatch or OOC declaration around how this resolution and WA resolutions interact with nation specific roleplay around police forces or dictatorial or autocratic states (i.e. how a nation technically be in contravention of WA resolutions through drugs laws and so on but there is no actual OOC punishment besides region liberation and roleplay punishments) (P.S I voted For the resolution for nation roleplay reasons - just wanted to declare that)

(OOC: That has not existed for any resolution in the past, despite the fact that there are many that have banned numerous practices antithetical to dictatorial, autocratic, or otherwise tyrannical regimes. I do not believe that any but the most new of players would think that one’s nation would suffer some sort of OOC penalty for noncompliance, aside from the usual statistical effects of legislative passage.

Genfernation wrote:My country is imperfect, but we have no crime. I like it that way.

Tinhampton has a terrible crime problem and no police force. She can govern her country however she wants to. But it just seems bizarre that a country that allows crime should be trying to make all other WA countries change their policing practices. It would be like making a drunk driver head of a driving school.

There is no connexion between how national statistics and how a nation actually exists in the canon of the General Assembly; the IC nation of Tinhampton does have a policing force. Further, there is no connexion between the nature of the author and the nature of the legislation.)
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Lower Antegria
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Mar 10, 2024
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Lower Antegria » Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:35 pm

Kenmoria wrote:
Lower Antegria wrote:3. There should be a public dispatch or OOC declaration around how this resolution and WA resolutions interact with nation specific roleplay around police forces or dictatorial or autocratic states (i.e. how a nation technically be in contravention of WA resolutions through drugs laws and so on but there is no actual OOC punishment besides region liberation and roleplay punishments) (P.S I voted For the resolution for nation roleplay reasons - just wanted to declare that)

(OOC: That has not existed for any resolution in the past, despite the fact that there are many that have banned numerous practices antithetical to dictatorial, autocratic, or otherwise tyrannical regimes. I do not believe that any but the most new of players would think that one’s nation would suffer some sort of OOC penalty for noncompliance, aside from the usual statistical effects of legislative passage.

Genfernation wrote:My country is imperfect, but we have no crime. I like it that way.

Tinhampton has a terrible crime problem and no police force. She can govern her country however she wants to. But it just seems bizarre that a country that allows crime should be trying to make all other WA countries change their policing practices. It would be like making a drunk driver head of a driving school.

There is no connexion between how national statistics and how a nation actually exists in the canon of the General Assembly; the IC nation of Tinhampton does have a policing force. Further, there is no connexion between the nature of the author and the nature of the legislation.)


Now you, me and a good portion of the WA who get involved in things know that the WA doesn’t really affect a nation’s RP or statistics unless you want it to but a number of people seem a bit confused on the minutiae of the WA’s effects so I’m saying to make it clear so there can be no misunderstandings or misinformation.
Also…
Exhibit A:

Katinea wrote:
Hekp wrote:What if we don't want to punish police brutality? (obviously, I want to do it in the real world, but not in my fictional country)

OOC: Yeah I dont like Resolutions that punish Users for wanting to RP their Nations as Dictatorships

Exhibit B: (I get that it’s a joke around WA resolutions but it’s only confusing matters)
The Overmind wrote:
Katinea wrote:OOC: The problem is I need to say in the WA for regional Security Purposes. Do the resolutions do anything or are they just RP? And can I decanonise them?

The resolutions affect your nation's stats, and they are RP. If you RP noncompliance then you will be RP sanctioned by the Compliance Commission in accordance with the Administrative Compliance Act.
Last edited by Lower Antegria on Sat Apr 13, 2024 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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