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[Draft]~Consumer Protection

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Drusselshof
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jan 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

[Draft]~Consumer Protection

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:01 am

Members of the world. Could you help me for the proposal. Please read to the draft and let me know with the changes you think I should make when I going to submit the proposal. Please feel free to share your ideas for the proposal

Topic: Consumer Protection

1) Definition: Consumers are persons to whom goods or services are marketed, who have entered into transactions with suppliers, users of particular goods or recipients/beneficiaries of services.

Right to Equality in the Consumer Market and Protection against Discriminatory Marketing
Explanation:
Suppliers are not permitted to limit access to goods and services.
Suppliers are not permitted to prioritize any consumer groups over others when marketing, selling or distributing their goods and services. 
Suppliers are not permitted to charge unfair prices for the same goods and services.

Right to Privacy
Explanation
Consumers have the right to protect their privacy and confidentiality in respect of unwanted or unsolicited correspondence.
Consumers have the right to refuse unwanted sms, telephone calls, letters or ‘spam’ e-mail. 
Consumers have the right to opt out of receiving unsolicited direct marketing services by blocking the relevant supplier/marketer.
Consumers have the right to accept, restrict or refuse unwanted direct marketing.
Companies and suppliers are not permitted to continue any unsolicited direct marketing of goods and services, once consumers have opted out. 


Right to Choose
Explanation
Consumers have the right to shop around for the best prices, goods and services.
Consumers are not obliged to enter into additional agreements with suppliers from whom they purchased goods or services (bundling).
Suppliers are not permitted to force consumers to enter into agreements with third-parties, unless the suppliers can prove the benefits of these additional goods or services. 


Right to Disclosure of Information
Explanation
Consumers have the right to demand contracts/agreements in easily-understood and plain language. 
Suppliers are required to display the prices of goods and services, in full view of consumers;
Consumers have the right to request the unit cost of goods and services, so as to avoid any ‘hidden’ costs.
Suppliers are required to specify the duration of any promotions in catalogs or brochures, failing which consumers have the right to purchase the goods or services at the specified prices.
Consumers have the right to demand paying the lower price for goods displaying two varying prices – suppliers are not permitted to charge consumers the higher price for the same goods. 


Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing
Explanation
Suppliers are not permitted to mislead consumers in respect of pricing, the nature, properties, advantages or uses of goods or services advertised, if such goods or services are not actually available for purchase or procurement in accordance with these standards.
Suppliers are obliged to include limitations in respect of the availability of goods or services when advertising such items, and honor such agreements.


Right to Fair and Honest Dealing
Explanation
Suppliers are not permitted to use physical force against consumers, coercion, undue influence, pressure, duress, harassment, unfair tactics or any other similar conduct when doing the following:
Marketing goods or services;Supplying goods or services;
Negotiating, concluding, executing or enforcing agreements to supply goods and services;
Demanding or collecting payments for goods or services; 
Recovering goods or services from consumers.
Suppliers are not permitted to take advantage of consumers who are unable to protect their interests due to mental or physical disability, poor literacy, ignorance or inability to understand the language of an agreement or any similar factors.


Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions
Explanation
Suppliers are not permitted to market, supply or enter into an agreement to supply goods or services at prices or terms that are unfair, unreasonable or unjust.
Suppliers are not permitted to require consumers to waive any rights, assume any obligations, waive any liability of the suppliers on terms that are unfair, unreasonable or unjust.
Consumers are entitled to obtain free copies or free electronic access to copies of agreements/contracts, irrespective of whether consumers have entered into such agreements/contracts.


Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety
Explanation
Timely performance and completion of those services;
Timely notice of any unavoidable delays in the performance of the services;
High-quality services, which consumers are entitled to expect and 
Use, delivery or installation of goods that are free of defects and of a quality that persons are generally entitled to expect, if any such goods are required for performance of the services.
Suppliers are required to remedy any defects in the quality of services performed or goods supplied; or refund the consumers a reasonable portion of the price paid for the services performed and goods supplied, in the event of these being sub-standard.
In any transaction or agreement pertaining to the supply of goods to consumers, it is an implied provision that the producer or importer, distributor and retailer each warrant that the goods comply with the requirements and standards of being safe, of good quality and durable.
Consumers are permitted to return goods to suppliers, without penalty and at the suppliers’ risk and expense, within a period of six (6) months after delivery of such goods, if the goods are of inferior quality, unsafe or defective.
Suppliers are obliged to refund, repair or replace the failed, unsafe and defective goods.


Right to Accountability by Suppliers
Explanation
Purchase goods and services via lay-bye agreements. In this case, if the suppliers fail to deliver any goods, these suppliers must, at the discretion of the consumers, supply equivalent or superior products;
Full refund of money paid, plus interest; and
Keep their deposits in an interest-bearing account. 


International Consumer Commission
Explanation
As such, the Regulations gave rise to the establishment of the National Consumer Commission, a body assigned to investigate consumer complaints and is responsible for the adjudication of violations and transgressions of these Regulations. 
The mission of the International Consumer Commission (ICC) is to promote compliance with the Consumer Protection Regulations through advocacy and enforcement, in order to ensure fair business practice and uphold the social and economic welfare of consumers.
The ICC is charged with the responsibility of enforcing and carrying out the functions assigned to it in terms of the Consumer Protection Regulations. The Regulations seek to promote a fair, accessible and sustainable marketplace for consumer products and services and, for that purpose, to establish national norms and standards relating to consumer protection throughout the world.
It further seeks to: provide for improved standards of consumer information; prohibit certain unfair marketing and business practices; promote responsible consumer behavior; and promote a consistent legislative and enforcement framework relating to consumer transactions and agreements.


Reason of the penalty for violation
Explanation
The Consumer Protection Regulations provides protection and recourse where Consumer rights have been violated. The Consumer Protection Regulations provides for quick and effective complaint resolution for both Consumer and businesses. Non-compliance sanctions include fines, imprisonment for 12 months or in the case of private information disclosure, imprisonment for 10 years. The Regulations also makes provision for administrative penalties with a maximum limit of 10% of turnover or R1m.
Last edited by Drusselshof on Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:55 am

Drusselshof wrote:2) The Regulations outlines these key consumer rights, of which all consumers should be aware. These include the following: 
Right to Equality in the Consumer Market and Protection Against Discriminatory Marketing Practices; Right to Privacy; Right to Choose; Right to Disclosure of Information; Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing; Right to Fair and Honest Dealing; Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions; Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety; and Right to Accountability by Suppliers.

Yes, but you haven't really outlined them; you've just thrown several zillion buzzwords all over the place and hope we'll have an understanding as to what they mean. Thank you for withdrawing this proposal and drafting it on the forums... especially after sending an unmarked campaign TG pleading for my approval.

Also: Please do not submit the proposal immediately after integrating my feedback. Other people can, and will, give their own feedback.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Drusselshof
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jan 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:46 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Drusselshof wrote:2) The Regulations outlines these key consumer rights, of which all consumers should be aware. These include the following:
Right to Equality in the Consumer Market and Protection Against Discriminatory Marketing Practices; Right to Privacy; Right to Choose; Right to Disclosure of Information; Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing; Right to Fair and Honest Dealing; Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions; Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety; and Right to Accountability by Suppliers.

Yes, but you haven't really outlined them; you've just thrown several zillion buzzwords all over the place and hope we'll have an understanding as to what they mean. Thank you for withdrawing this proposal and drafting it on the forums... especially after sending an unmarked campaign TG pleading for my approval
Also: Please do not submit the proposal immediately after integrating my feedback. Other people can, and will, give their own feedback.


Thank you for your feedback. Please share your ideas, comments and thoughts about this

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Tinhampton
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Posts: 13700
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:57 am

Drusselshof wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Yes, but you haven't really outlined them; you've just thrown several zillion buzzwords all over the place and hope we'll have an understanding as to what they mean. Thank you for withdrawing this proposal and drafting it on the forums... especially after sending an unmarked campaign TG pleading for my approval
Also: Please do not submit the proposal immediately after integrating my feedback. Other people can, and will, give their own feedback.


Thank you for your feedback. Please share your ideas, comments and thoughts about this

I already did. Now what you've done is added an "Explanation" for your Articles 2-4. You should have explained what exactly each of the rights you outlined are instead. It will be extremely easy for people to vote against this if it goes to vote because they will be able to see that you do not explain how people will benefit from each of those rights, and how corporations can ensure people get those rights.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Potted Plants United
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Founded: Jan 14, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Potted Plants United » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:00 am

OOC post.

Drusselshof wrote:Topic: Consumer Protection

This is presumably the draft name? What category and area of effect or strength?

1) Definition: Consumers are persons to whom goods or services are marketed, who have entered into transactions with suppliers, users of particular goods or recipients/beneficiaries of services.

This looks like taken from a dictionary. If I searched that online, would I get a hit on an online dictionary? If yes, it's plagiarism, which is illegal. However, since you seem to be using the word in its dictionary definition manner, you don't need to actually define it.

You have no preamble, which is the bit of text that comes before the clauses that actually do something, like your definition there. In this case you should use the preamble to explain why you think this topic needs international legislation to deal with it, given that any sane nation would already have consumer protection laws in place.

2) The Regulations outlines these key consumer rights, of which all consumers should be aware. These include the following: 

"Should" doesn't actually do anything. If you want people to be aware of something, you need to actually make people aware of it. However, the way WA resolutions work, you could just basically say "declares these key consumer rights to apply to all consumers".

Right to Equality in the Consumer Market

...you know that you're not allowed to buy and sell people, right? :P

Terms like "consumer market", which are vague and up for interpretation, are the kinds you should define instead of simple terms.

and Protection Against Discriminatory Marketing Practices

Is an ad targeting parents with small babies, that advertizes baby diapers, discriminatory? What are discriminatory marketing practices? Another thing that should be defined if you insist using it. However, be aware that some discrimination in general is allowed if there is a good enough reason for it (like, for example, only allowing citizens to vote in parliamentary elections). I would imagine that marketing is such a targeted industry that most "discrimination" (without looking things up I can't even imagine what discriminatory marketing would contain) can be explained as simply being a targeting choice.

Right to Privacy

In which sense? If you use a bank card to pay for purchases, you should be prepared to prove your identity, there's also no privacy in a fairly public place like a grocery store. Also, there are some resolutions out there already that talk about privacy protections in very specific areas.

Right to Choose

Right to choose what? These things need to be typed out.

Right to Disclosure of Information

What information? Whose information? Disclosing it to who? This and the privacy thing look very much out of place in consumer protection resolution. They're more like general rights. And also, even if you know something, there are specific resolutions about cases where you still can't tell that information forwards (like, a doctor can't tell their patient's partner their patient's private medical information, without the explicit permission of their patient).

Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing

Without googling I've no idea what this means. And it's your job to explain in the proposal text what it means.

Right to Fair and Honest Dealing

Same as above. You need to write in the meaning.

Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions

Do you read the terms and conditions of every app you install on any digital device, before choosing consent? I DO. Most of them are not reasonable by any stretch of meaning, and some are written in such convoluted language that it can be really difficult to understand a 200-word-long sentence. Is that what you mean? Or what? Do groceries come with terms and conditions too? (Hope not.)

Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety

Safety is self-explanatory, but what is fair value in this context? A lot of products are priced way too high (see for example medications and how much they cost in USA and how much they cost in EU: clearly if the producer can afford to sell a pill for 0.15 euros in EU, it can't be fair that it costs 15 dollars in the USA) for their production costs, while some others (especially some groceries) are sold at below production values, because they are a way to entice people to come to the store where they'll likely buy other things, too, while there. And good quality is a bit vague. If I buy something cheap, knowing that it's low quality because it's so cheap, but also knowing it's good enough quality for the purpose I need it, then is that somehow not fair?

Right to Accountability by Suppliers.

What are suppliers, here? And how is their accountability a right?

The penalty under this regulations

The penalty for what? And grammar error, should read "these" instead of "this".

attracts a possible fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months or both a fine and imprisonment. In the case where a person is convicted of a breach of confidence the penalty is a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or both a fine and imprisonment.

What's a breach of confidence? There's no right to confidence on your list. And also, what the hell at those numbers? 10 years in prison if you sell bananas that got a little chilled in transport so you know they'll brown faster than they normally would, after people buy them? What happened to your fair, just and reasonable terms?

4) gives rise to the establishment of the International Consumer Commission, a body assigned to investigate consumer complaints and is responsible for the adjudication of violations and transgressions of the regulations

What gives rise? And it would be far less time and effort consuming to make consumers complain to sellers and set up mediation in cases where they can't agree. Like it's done in RL in nations that aren't quite as sue-happy as USA.

The vibe I'm getting is that most of this text is swiped off of some marketing text book or RL law, and it'll need a shitton of work to be anywhere near submittable.
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Tinhampton
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Posts: 13700
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:08 am

Also, to confirm PPU's suspicions: It looks like your Articles 1, 2 and 4 were plagiarised in large part, if not entirely, from The Consumer Protection Act: Your Guide to Consumer Rights & How to Protect Them. Article 3 appears to be original, but barely comprehensible (and your resolution doesn't even define what a breach of confidence is!)
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Drusselshof
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jan 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:26 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:OOC post.

Drusselshof wrote:Topic: Consumer Protection

This is presumably the draft name? What category and area of effect or strength?

1) Definition: Consumers are persons to whom goods or services are marketed, who have entered into transactions with suppliers, users of particular goods or recipients/beneficiaries of services.

This looks like taken from a dictionary. If I searched that online, would I get a hit on an online dictionary? If yes, it's plagiarism, which is illegal. However, since you seem to be using the word in its dictionary definition manner, you don't need to actually define it.

You have no preamble, which is the bit of text that comes before the clauses that actually do something, like your definition there. In this case you should use the preamble to explain why you think this topic needs international legislation to deal with it, given that any sane nation would already have consumer protection laws in place.

2) The Regulations outlines these key consumer rights, of which all consumers should be aware. These include the following: 

"Should" doesn't actually do anything. If you want people to be aware of something, you need to actually make people aware of it. However, the way WA resolutions work, you could just basically say "declares these key consumer rights to apply to all consumers".

Right to Equality in the Consumer Market

...you know that you're not allowed to buy and sell people, right? :P

Terms like "consumer market", which are vague and up for interpretation, are the kinds you should define instead of simple terms.

and Protection Against Discriminatory Marketing Practices

Is an ad targeting parents with small babies, that advertizes baby diapers, discriminatory? What are discriminatory marketing practices? Another thing that should be defined if you insist using it. However, be aware that some discrimination in general is allowed if there is a good enough reason for it (like, for example, only allowing citizens to vote in parliamentary elections). I would imagine that marketing is such a targeted industry that most "discrimination" (without looking things up I can't even imagine what discriminatory marketing would contain) can be explained as simply being a targeting choice.

Right to Privacy

In which sense? If you use a bank card to pay for purchases, you should be prepared to prove your identity, there's also no privacy in a fairly public place like a grocery store. Also, there are some resolutions out there already that talk about privacy protections in very specific areas.

Right to Choose

Right to choose what? These things need to be typed out.

Right to Disclosure of Information

What information? Whose information? Disclosing it to who? This and the privacy thing look very much out of place in consumer protection resolution. They're more like general rights. And also, even if you know something, there are specific resolutions about cases where you still can't tell that information forwards (like, a doctor can't tell their patient's partner their patient's private medical information, without the explicit permission of their patient).

Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing

Without googling I've no idea what this means. And it's your job to explain in the proposal text what it means.

Right to Fair and Honest Dealing

Same as above. You need to write in the meaning.

Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions

Do you read the terms and conditions of every app you install on any digital device, before choosing consent? I DO. Most of them are not reasonable by any stretch of meaning, and some are written in such convoluted language that it can be really difficult to understand a 200-word-long sentence. Is that what you mean? Or what? Do groceries come with terms and conditions too? (Hope not.)

Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety

Safety is self-explanatory, but what is fair value in this context? A lot of products are priced way too high (see for example medications and how much they cost in USA and how much they cost in EU: clearly if the producer can afford to sell a pill for 0.15 euros in EU, it can't be fair that it costs 15 dollars in the USA) for their production costs, while some others (especially some groceries) are sold at below production values, because they are a way to entice people to come to the store where they'll likely buy other things, too, while there. And good quality is a bit vague. If I buy something cheap, knowing that it's low quality because it's so cheap, but also knowing it's good enough quality for the purpose I need it, then is that somehow not fair?

Right to Accountability by Suppliers.

What are suppliers, here? And how is their accountability a right?

The penalty under this regulations

The penalty for what? And grammar error, should read "these" instead of "this".

attracts a possible fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months or both a fine and imprisonment. In the case where a person is convicted of a breach of confidence the penalty is a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or both a fine and imprisonment.

What's a breach of confidence? There's no right to confidence on your list. And also, what the hell at those numbers? 10 years in prison if you sell bananas that got a little chilled in transport so you know they'll brown faster than they normally would, after people buy them? What happened to your fair, just and reasonable terms?

4) gives rise to the establishment of the International Consumer Commission, a body assigned to investigate consumer complaints and is responsible for the adjudication of violations and transgressions of the regulations

What gives rise? And it would be far less time and effort consuming to make consumers complain to sellers and set up mediation in cases where they can't agree. Like it's done in RL in nations that aren't quite as sue-happy as USA.

The vibe I'm getting is that most of this text is swiped off of some marketing text book or RL law, and it'll need a shitton of work to be anywhere near submittable.



What do you suggest from the quote above

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Drusselshof
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jan 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:27 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Also, to confirm PPU's suspicions: It looks like your Articles 1, 2 and 4 were plagiarised in large part, if not entirely, from The Consumer Protection Act: Your Guide to Consumer Rights & How to Protect Them. Article 3 appears to be original, but barely comprehensible (and your resolution doesn't even define what a breach of confidence is!)


I just thought that something from the real world would help us in the fictional world

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Tinhampton
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13700
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:29 pm

Drusselshof wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Also, to confirm PPU's suspicions: It looks like your Articles 1, 2 and 4 were plagiarised in large part, if not entirely, from The Consumer Protection Act: Your Guide to Consumer Rights & How to Protect Them. Article 3 appears to be original, but barely comprehensible (and your resolution doesn't even define what a breach of confidence is!)


I just thought that something from the real world would help us in the fictional world

GA rules forbid plagiarism.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 329,537): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Drusselshof
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jan 24, 2023
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:43 pm

Drusselshof wrote:
Potted Plants United wrote:OOC post.


This is presumably the draft name? What category and area of effect or strength?


This looks like taken from a dictionary. If I searched that online, would I get a hit on an online dictionary? If yes, it's plagiarism, which is illegal. However, since you seem to be using the word in its dictionary definition manner, you don't need to actually define it.

You have no preamble, which is the bit of text that comes before the clauses that actually do something, like your definition there. In this case you should use the preamble to explain why you think this topic needs international legislation to deal with it, given that any sane nation would already have consumer protection laws in place.


"Should" doesn't actually do anything. If you want people to be aware of something, you need to actually make people aware of it. However, the way WA resolutions work, you could just basically say "declares these key consumer rights to apply to all consumers".


...you know that you're not allowed to buy and sell people, right? :P

Terms like "consumer market", which are vague and up for interpretation, are the kinds you should define instead of simple terms.


Is an ad targeting parents with small babies, that advertizes baby diapers, discriminatory? What are discriminatory marketing practices? Another thing that should be defined if you insist using it. However, be aware that some discrimination in general is allowed if there is a good enough reason for it (like, for example, only allowing citizens to vote in parliamentary elections). I would imagine that marketing is such a targeted industry that most "discrimination" (without looking things up I can't even imagine what discriminatory marketing would contain) can be explained as simply being a targeting choice.


In which sense? If you use a bank card to pay for purchases, you should be prepared to prove your identity, there's also no privacy in a fairly public place like a grocery store. Also, there are some resolutions out there already that talk about privacy protections in very specific areas.


Right to choose what? These things need to be typed out.


What information? Whose information? Disclosing it to who? This and the privacy thing look very much out of place in consumer protection resolution. They're more like general rights. And also, even if you know something, there are specific resolutions about cases where you still can't tell that information forwards (like, a doctor can't tell their patient's partner their patient's private medical information, without the explicit permission of their patient).


Without googling I've no idea what this means. And it's your job to explain in the proposal text what it means.


Same as above. You need to write in the meaning.


Do you read the terms and conditions of every app you install on any digital device, before choosing consent? I DO. Most of them are not reasonable by any stretch of meaning, and some are written in such convoluted language that it can be really difficult to understand a 200-word-long sentence. Is that what you mean? Or what? Do groceries come with terms and conditions too? (Hope not.)


Safety is self-explanatory, but what is fair value in this context? A lot of products are priced way too high (see for example medications and how much they cost in USA and how much they cost in EU: clearly if the producer can afford to sell a pill for 0.15 euros in EU, it can't be fair that it costs 15 dollars in the USA) for their production costs, while some others (especially some groceries) are sold at below production values, because they are a way to entice people to come to the store where they'll likely buy other things, too, while there. And good quality is a bit vague. If I buy something cheap, knowing that it's low quality because it's so cheap, but also knowing it's good enough quality for the purpose I need it, then is that somehow not fair?


What are suppliers, here? And how is their accountability a right?


The penalty for what? And grammar error, should read "these" instead of "this".


What's a breach of confidence? There's no right to confidence on your list. And also, what the hell at those numbers? 10 years in prison if you sell bananas that got a little chilled in transport so you know they'll brown faster than they normally would, after people buy them? What happened to your fair, just and reasonable terms?


What gives rise? And it would be far less time and effort consuming to make consumers complain to sellers and set up mediation in cases where they can't agree. Like it's done in RL in nations that aren't quite as sue-happy as USA.

The vibe I'm getting is that most of this text is swiped off of some marketing text book or RL law, and it'll need a shitton of work to be anywhere near submittable.



I will upload a document with all the explanations with this these

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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:52 pm

Why do you feel the need to place your responses in "a document?" It is not against the rules to directly respond to criticism on the GA forum. Nor is it physically possible to attach files such as .docx and .pdf onto NS directly.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Drusselshof
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:30 pm

Tinhampton wrote:Why do you feel the need to place your responses in "a document?" It is not against the rules to directly respond to criticism on the GA forum. Nor is it physically possible to attach files such as .docx and .pdf onto NS directly.


I just update the post with the explanation to the proposal. Feel free to comment

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Drusselshof
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Drusselshof » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:33 pm

Potted Plants United wrote:OOC post.

Drusselshof wrote:Topic: Consumer Protection

This is presumably the draft name? What category and area of effect or strength?

1) Definition: Consumers are persons to whom goods or services are marketed, who have entered into transactions with suppliers, users of particular goods or recipients/beneficiaries of services.

This looks like taken from a dictionary. If I searched that online, would I get a hit on an online dictionary? If yes, it's plagiarism, which is illegal. However, since you seem to be using the word in its dictionary definition manner, you don't need to actually define it.


L

You have no preamble, which is the bit of text that comes before the clauses that actually do something, like your definition there. In this case you should use the preamble to explain why you think this topic needs international legislation to deal with it, given that any sane nation would already have consumer protection laws in place.

2) The Regulations outlines these key consumer rights, of which all consumers should be aware. These include the following: 

"Should" doesn't actually do anything. If you want people to be aware of something, you need to actually make people aware of it. However, the way WA resolutions work, you could just basically say "declares these key consumer rights to apply to all consumers".

Right to Equality in the Consumer Market

...you know that you're not allowed to buy and sell people, right? :P

Terms like "consumer market", which are vague and up for interpretation, are the kinds you should define instead of simple terms.

and Protection Against Discriminatory Marketing Practices

Is an ad targeting parents with small babies, that advertizes baby diapers, discriminatory? What are discriminatory marketing practices? Another thing that should be defined if you insist using it. However, be aware that some discrimination in general is allowed if there is a good enough reason for it (like, for example, only allowing citizens to vote in parliamentary elections). I would imagine that marketing is such a targeted industry that most "discrimination" (without looking things up I can't even imagine what discriminatory marketing would contain) can be explained as simply being a targeting choice.

Right to Privacy

In which sense? If you use a bank card to pay for purchases, you should be prepared to prove your identity, there's also no privacy in a fairly public place like a grocery store. Also, there are some resolutions out there already that talk about privacy protections in very specific areas.

Right to Choose

Right to choose what? These things need to be typed out.

Right to Disclosure of Information

What information? Whose information? Disclosing it to who? This and the privacy thing look very much out of place in consumer protection resolution. They're more like general rights. And also, even if you know something, there are specific resolutions about cases where you still can't tell that information forwards (like, a doctor can't tell their patient's partner their patient's private medical information, without the explicit permission of their patient).

Right to Fair and Responsible Marketing

Without googling I've no idea what this means. And it's your job to explain in the proposal text what it means.

Right to Fair and Honest Dealing

Same as above. You need to write in the meaning.

Right to Fair, Just and Reasonable Terms and Conditions

Do you read the terms and conditions of every app you install on any digital device, before choosing consent? I DO. Most of them are not reasonable by any stretch of meaning, and some are written in such convoluted language that it can be really difficult to understand a 200-word-long sentence. Is that what you mean? Or what? Do groceries come with terms and conditions too? (Hope not.)

Right to Fair Value, Good Quality and Safety

Safety is self-explanatory, but what is fair value in this context? A lot of products are priced way too high (see for example medications and how much they cost in USA and how much they cost in EU: clearly if the producer can afford to sell a pill for 0.15 euros in EU, it can't be fair that it costs 15 dollars in the USA) for their production costs, while some others (especially some groceries) are sold at below production values, because they are a way to entice people to come to the store where they'll likely buy other things, too, while there. And good quality is a bit vague. If I buy something cheap, knowing that it's low quality because it's so cheap, but also knowing it's good enough quality for the purpose I need it, then is that somehow not fair?

Right to Accountability by Suppliers.

What are suppliers, here? And how is their accountability a right?

The penalty under this regulations

The penalty for what? And grammar error, should read "these" instead of "this".

attracts a possible fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 12 months or both a fine and imprisonment. In the case where a person is convicted of a breach of confidence the penalty is a fine or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 10 years or both a fine and imprisonment.

What's a breach of confidence? There's no right to confidence on your list. And also, what the hell at those numbers? 10 years in prison if you sell bananas that got a little chilled in transport so you know they'll brown faster than they normally would, after people buy them? What happened to your fair, just and reasonable terms?

4) gives rise to the establishment of the International Consumer Commission, a body assigned to investigate consumer complaints and is responsible for the adjudication of violations and transgressions of the regulations

What gives rise? And it would be far less time and effort consuming to make consumers complain to sellers and set up mediation in cases where they can't agree. Like it's done in RL in nations that aren't quite as sue-happy as USA.

The vibe I'm getting is that most of this text is swiped off of some marketing text book or RL law, and it'll need a shitton of work to be anywhere near submittable.



I just update my post with the explanation for everything in the proposal draft. Feel free to comment and share your ideas and suggestions.

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Tinhampton
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:18 pm

Drusselshof wrote:
Tinhampton wrote:Why do you feel the need to place your responses in "a document?" It is not against the rules to directly respond to criticism on the GA forum. Nor is it physically possible to attach files such as .docx and .pdf onto NS directly.


I just update the post with the explanation to the proposal. Feel free to comment

Your new draft is even more heavily plagiarised from the South African site I just linked to than the old one.

Louder for those of you at the back: PLAGIARISM IS ILLEGAL. SUBMITTING A PLAGIARISED PROPOSAL COULD GET YOUR NATION REMOVED FROM THE WA.
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356, GA#559, GA#562, GA#567, GA#578, SC#374, GA#582, SC#375, GA#589, GA#590, SC#382, SC#385*, GA#597, GA#607, SC#415, GA#647, GA#656, GA#664, GA#671, GA#674, GA#675, GA#677, GA#680, Issue #1580, GA#682, GA#683, GA#684, GA#692, GA#693, GA#715
The rest of my CV: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; *author of the most popular SC Res. ever; anti-NPO cabalist in good standing; 48yo Tory woman w/Asperger's; Cambridge graduate ~ currently reading The World by Simon Sebag Montefiore

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Juansonia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Juansonia » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:21 pm

OOC:

Since the GA has a 5000 character limit per resolution, it would be a good idea to break this into multiple proposals, each drafted independently and submitted as separate proposals.

When deciding what aspects of consumer education to write proposals for, keep in mind that the GA has already written resolutions on aspects such as data privacy of minors and adult users, arbitration, net neutrality, and the right to be aware of WA law. In addition, this project would be a good excuse to refound the now-defunct WA Trade Commission (WATC).

I may be dumb in this case, but would it be a good idea to prepare several proposals on a topic, submit them all within one hour, and have the campaign telegrams mention each proposal? That way you could campaign for delegate endorsements without wasting as many stamps.
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Potted Plants United
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Potted Plants United » Thu Feb 02, 2023 4:08 pm

OOC: And for fuck's sake stop quoting my long post (which you've done three times!!!) in its entirety without spoilering the quote. This thread is bloody awful to scroll through on a smartphone because of that. Please use the edit function on your own posts to spoiler the quote or remove it from the latter two of your posts where it's quoted.

Juansonia wrote:OOC: I may be dumb in this case, but would it be a good idea to prepare several proposals on a topic, submit them all within one hour, and have the campaign telegrams mention each proposal? That way you could campaign for delegate endorsements without wasting as many stamps.

You're not dumb, but it would be a bad idea as long as all their material is plagiarized from elsewhere.

...unless you're trying to get OP kicked from the WA, then it's a good suggestion. :P
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WayNeacTia
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Ex-Nation

Postby WayNeacTia » Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:55 pm

The “author” (and I use that term very loosely…) has a penchant for not reading the rules. The telegram conversation we had made that pretty clear….
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wait


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