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[MISSED AFTER REACHING QUORUM] Repeal GA № 467

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The North Polish Union
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[MISSED AFTER REACHING QUORUM] Repeal GA № 467

Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:15 am

Ambassador Michał Wyrzykowski approaches the GA floor and submits the following resolution the the GA's drafting experts.

The General Assembly;

APPLAUDING the intent of GA Resolution #467 “Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy”, which seeks to ensure universal access to hormone therapy for all consenting individuals in WA member states; but

CONCERNED that parts of GA #467 create serious ambiguity and fail in some cases to adequately protect the rights of transgender individuals;

OBSERVING that resolutions passed both before and after the passage of GA #467 provide a more comprehensive framework for WA member states to work within and address many of the inadequacies of GA #467; for example

NOTING that GA Resolution #91 “A Convention On Gender” had already mandated states provide gender-adequation procedures in addition to establishing the legal status of intersex, transgender, and intergendered persons;

DISAPPOINTED that although GA #467 states that the experiences of transgender individuals “are not the product of “mental illness,” “confusion,” “disease,” or anything of the sort”, it goes on to claim that gender dysphoria is a “mental condition [that] ought to be treated,” an attitude which may unwittingly contribute to public stigmatization and medicalization of transgender individuals, while GA #91 avoids any mention of individuals belonging to non-majoritarian genders innately having an accompanying mental condition;

ALARMED that GA #467 both definitionally excludes puberty blockers as well as synthetic estrogen and testosterone derivatives, which are often required for effective administration of these hormones, and requires member states to provide hormone therapy to any consenting individual, including those who, while capable of consenting, are genuinely medically unfit to receive it, whereas GA Resolution #571 “Access To Transgender Hormone Therapy” addresses both of these issues;

WORRIED that while GA #467 requires that all member states provide affordable access to hormone therapy, it fails to provide for any sort of explicit financial assistance or WA subcommittee to oversee disbursement of aid from the WA General Fund to countries in need of such monetary assistance, a situation which may result in impoverished WA members struggling to comply with its requirements, such a mandate goes beyond GA #467’s purpose in recognizing a civil right by unduly imposing substantial obligations on member states and their populations;

AFFIRMING the WA’s requirements that member states may not criminalize transgender individuals’ expression of their gender identity and its prohibition on using coercion as a tool to either impose or deny an individual hormone therapy; but

CONCERNED that since GA #467 “[f]orbids any member-state from denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime”, WA members who impose fines as punishments for crimes (regardless of the gender identity of the criminal) are functionally barred from imposing such punishments on some transgender individuals insofar as an individual may be unbale to both pay the fine and continue their hormone therapy, thereby hindering the effective application of genuine justice in some cases through WA law;

ALARMED that GA #467 simply requires access to hormone therapy, but does not so much as encourage that therapy be overseen by a medical professional, a situation which may lead to poorly-informed individuals with little medical expertise attempting to oversee their own hormone therapy regimen, potentially to harmful effect;

HEREBY, this body does repeal GA Resolution #467 “Affordable Transgender Hormone Therapy”.
Last edited by The North Polish Union on Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:53 am, edited 5 times in total.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:47 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:CONCERNED that since GA #467 “[f]orbids any member-state from denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime”, WA members who impose fines as punishments for crimes (regardless of the gender identity of the criminal) are functionally barred from imposing such punishments on some transgender individuals insofar as an individual may be unbale to both pay the fine and continue their hormone therapy, thereby hindering the effective application of genuine justice in some cases through WA law;


I really doubt it. Member nations could interpret it as saying that the punishment is specifically barring someone from hormone therapy, and not just any action that could potentially lead to someone not getting access to hormone therapy.
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Morover
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Postby Morover » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:39 pm

Honeydewistania wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:CONCERNED that since GA #467 “[f]orbids any member-state from denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime”, WA members who impose fines as punishments for crimes (regardless of the gender identity of the criminal) are functionally barred from imposing such punishments on some transgender individuals insofar as an individual may be unbale to both pay the fine and continue their hormone therapy, thereby hindering the effective application of genuine justice in some cases through WA law;


I really doubt it. Member nations could interpret it as saying that the punishment is specifically barring someone from hormone therapy, and not just any action that could potentially lead to someone not getting access to hormone therapy.

I actually glanced over this earlier and interpreted it as an HM - I haven't had the time to actually set up a legality challenge or anything, though.
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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:12 pm

Did you draft it in any avenue beforehand (such as an offside forum or Discord or whatnot), because Honeydew has pointed out a potential problem with one of your clauses.
In solidarity with Ukraine, I will be censoring the letters Z and V from my signature. This is -ery much so a big change, but it should be a -ery positi-e one. -olodymyr -elensky and A-o- continue to fight for Ukraine while the Russians are still trying to e-entually make their way to Kharki-, -apori-h-hia, and Kry-yi Rih, but that will take time as they are concentrated in areas like Bakhmut, -uledar, and other areas in Donetsk. We will see Shakhtar play in the Europa League but Dynamo Kyi- already got eliminated. Shakhtar managed to play well against Florentino Pere-'s Real Madrid who feature superstars like -inicius, Ben-ema, Car-ajal, and -al-erde. Some prominent Ukrainian players that got big transfers elsewhere include Oleksander -inchenko, Illya -abarnyi, and Mykhailo Mudryk.

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Honeydewistania
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Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:22 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:Did you draft it in any avenue beforehand (such as an offside forum or Discord or whatnot), because Honeydew has pointed out a potential problem with one of your clauses.

Well, it was drafted here, just that no one commented on it until it was submitted a week after it was posted
Home of the first best pizza topping known to NationStates | Prolific Security Council Author (15x resolutions written) | Not that one fraud, Pineappleistania(ew) | Mouthpiece for Melons' first-rate SC takes | read this please

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Your lives are mine
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Postby Your lives are mine » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:43 pm

Support

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The North Polish Union
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Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:37 am

Honeydewistania wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:CONCERNED that since GA #467 “[f]orbids any member-state from denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime”, WA members who impose fines as punishments for crimes (regardless of the gender identity of the criminal) are functionally barred from imposing such punishments on some transgender individuals insofar as an individual may be unbale to both pay the fine and continue their hormone therapy, thereby hindering the effective application of genuine justice in some cases through WA law;


I really doubt it. Member nations could interpret it as saying that the punishment is specifically barring someone from hormone therapy, and not just any action that could potentially lead to someone not getting access to hormone therapy.

Morover wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:
I really doubt it. Member nations could interpret it as saying that the punishment is specifically barring someone from hormone therapy, and not just any action that could potentially lead to someone not getting access to hormone therapy.

I actually glanced over this earlier and interpreted it as an HM - I haven't had the time to actually set up a legality challenge or anything, though.


Here is the line of reasoning: Person A is transgender and Person B is cisgender. They are convicted of the same crime in the same WA member state. The punishment for the crime, in line with the state's laws and traditional jurisprudence, is a substantial monetary fine.

Person A challenges the state's punishment, saying "While my hormone therapy regime is generally affordable in line with GA № 467, the requirement that I pay this fine puts me in financial hardship and after paying for food and rent and other necessities I am no longer able to afford hormone therapy and the state is functionally denying me access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime." Person B has no such recourse.

In this situation the ordinary course of justice becomes convoluted and confused. Person A and Person B may receive different punishments for identical crimes. Resources may be wasted trying to determine the reality of Person A's hardship claim and/or a separate punishment.

It is worth noting that GA № 467 bars nations from "denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime” without regard for the motivations for doing so. In the case above, the state actor emphatically did not intend to violate GA № 467's provisions and their sentencing was not motivated by a discriminatory attitude, but they did so nonetheless. Honeydewstania's interpretation requires states to 'read between the lines' and understand that the only punishments forbidden are those motivated from a desire to discriminate against or otherwise punish transgender individuals for their gender identity; however, such an interpretation is not borne out by the actual text of GA № 467 and reads into the text an argument that cannot square with the resolution itself.
General Assembly Rules for Proposals wrote:Honest Mistake: Repeals should address the contents of the resolution it's targeting, and not just state the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution. Embellishment, exaggeration, deceptive/weaselly-words do not constitute an 'honest mistake'. An 'honest mistake' is factual inaccuracies, misrepresentation, or content that doesn't address the resolution.

As has been demonstrated, the submitted repeal addresses the contents of the resolution it's targeting; it is neither factually inaccurate nor misrepresentative. The arguments presented here are based on a strict reading of the text, rather than the preferred interpretation of the text.


From the desk of Michał Wyrzykowski
Minister for World Assembly Affairs
The North Polish Union
Last edited by The North Polish Union on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

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Morover
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Postby Morover » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:02 am

The North Polish Union wrote:
Honeydewistania wrote:
I really doubt it. Member nations could interpret it as saying that the punishment is specifically barring someone from hormone therapy, and not just any action that could potentially lead to someone not getting access to hormone therapy.

Morover wrote:I actually glanced over this earlier and interpreted it as an HM - I haven't had the time to actually set up a legality challenge or anything, though.


Here is the line of reasoning: Person A is transgender and Person B is cisgender. They are convicted of the same crime in the same WA member state. The punishment for the crime, in line with the state's laws and traditional jurisprudence, is a substantial monetary fine.

Person A challenges the state's punishment, saying "While my hormone therapy regime is generally affordable in line with GA № 467, the requirement that I pay this fine puts me in financial hardship and after paying for food and rent and other necessities I am no longer able to afford hormone therapy and the state is functionally denying me access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime." Person B has no such recourse.

In this situation the ordinary course of justice becomes convoluted and confused. Person A and Person B may receive different punishments for identical crimes. Resources may be wasted trying to determine the reality of Person A's hardship claim and/or a separate punishment.

It is worth noting that GA № 467 bars nations from "denying a transgender person access to hormone therapy as a punishment or as part of a punishment for a crime” without regard for the motivations for doing so. In the case above, the state actor emphatically did not intend to violate GA № 467's provisions and their sentencing was not motivated by a discriminatory attitude, but they did so nonetheless. Honeydewstania's interpretation requires states to 'read between the lines' and understand that the only punishments forbidden are those motivated from a desire to discriminate against or otherwise punish transgender individuals for their gender identity; however, such an interpretation is not borne out by the actual text of GA № 467 and reads into the text an argument that cannot square with the resolution itself.
General Assembly Rules for Proposals wrote:Honest Mistake: Repeals should address the contents of the resolution it's targeting, and not just state the reverse of the arguments given in the resolution. Embellishment, exaggeration, deceptive/weaselly-words do not constitute an 'honest mistake'. An 'honest mistake' is factual inaccuracies, misrepresentation, or content that doesn't address the resolution.

As has been demonstrated, the submitted repeal addresses the contents of the resolution it's targeting; it is neither factually inaccurate nor misrepresentative. The arguments presented here are based on a strict reading of the text, rather than the preferred interpretation of the text.


From the desk of Michał Wyrzykowski
Minister for World Assembly Affairs
The North Polish Union

I fail to see how this is fundamentally different from two transgender people, where person A is in poverty and person B is not - even if the standard cost for hormone therapy is above what person A can afford, that person must be permitted to afford it (as per the resolution), so the government can either subsidize it or simply give it to the person for free. This same principle can be applied to the fine - if the person could afford it before, but cannot afford it after the fine, then the cost of the hormone therapy must then be lowered so that the person can once again afford it. Coupled with GA571's provision that requires hormone therapy to be free, your point is completely moot - I am unsure whether the way that the resolution works with GA571's provisions is grounds for the argument being "factually inaccurate", but I'm personally of the belief that the argument itself would be inaccurate even without GA571 in place. I do intend to file a legality challenge if GenSec declares this legal.
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The North Polish Union
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Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:14 am

Morover wrote: I do intend to file a legality challenge if GenSec declares this legal.

"In that case our intention is to stop discussing this particular issue until a formal complaint, to which we can respond, is brought before the GA Secretariat. It would have been preferable to us if these concerns had been raised during the drafting stage, during which there was ample time to do so. Unfortunately, that obviously did not happen in this case."
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

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Outer Sparta
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Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Outer Sparta » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:22 am

The North Polish Union wrote:
Morover wrote: I do intend to file a legality challenge if GenSec declares this legal.

"In that case our intention is to stop discussing this particular issue until a formal complaint, to which we can respond, is brought before the GA Secretariat. It would have been preferable to us if these concerns had been raised during the drafting stage, during which there was ample time to do so. Unfortunately, that obviously did not happen in this case."

Where was the link to your draft that seemingly went under the radar?
In solidarity with Ukraine, I will be censoring the letters Z and V from my signature. This is -ery much so a big change, but it should be a -ery positi-e one. -olodymyr -elensky and A-o- continue to fight for Ukraine while the Russians are still trying to e-entually make their way to Kharki-, -apori-h-hia, and Kry-yi Rih, but that will take time as they are concentrated in areas like Bakhmut, -uledar, and other areas in Donetsk. We will see Shakhtar play in the Europa League but Dynamo Kyi- already got eliminated. Shakhtar managed to play well against Florentino Pere-'s Real Madrid who feature superstars like -inicius, Ben-ema, Car-ajal, and -al-erde. Some prominent Ukrainian players that got big transfers elsewhere include Oleksander -inchenko, Illya -abarnyi, and Mykhailo Mudryk.

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The North Polish Union
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Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:24 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:"In that case our intention is to stop discussing this particular issue until a formal complaint, to which we can respond, is brought before the GA Secretariat. It would have been preferable to us if these concerns had been raised during the drafting stage, during which there was ample time to do so. Unfortunately, that obviously did not happen in this case."

Where was the link to your draft that seemingly went under the radar?

OOC: Scroll to the top of the thread.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

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Outer Sparta
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Posts: 14639
Founded: Dec 26, 2014
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Outer Sparta » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:29 am

The North Polish Union wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:Where was the link to your draft that seemingly went under the radar?

OOC: Scroll to the top of the thread.

So basically this somehow went totally under the radar despite you posting the draft a week ago? Why didn't you wait for more feedback, as you are allowed to bump and ask for feedback if you don't get it.
In solidarity with Ukraine, I will be censoring the letters Z and V from my signature. This is -ery much so a big change, but it should be a -ery positi-e one. -olodymyr -elensky and A-o- continue to fight for Ukraine while the Russians are still trying to e-entually make their way to Kharki-, -apori-h-hia, and Kry-yi Rih, but that will take time as they are concentrated in areas like Bakhmut, -uledar, and other areas in Donetsk. We will see Shakhtar play in the Europa League but Dynamo Kyi- already got eliminated. Shakhtar managed to play well against Florentino Pere-'s Real Madrid who feature superstars like -inicius, Ben-ema, Car-ajal, and -al-erde. Some prominent Ukrainian players that got big transfers elsewhere include Oleksander -inchenko, Illya -abarnyi, and Mykhailo Mudryk.

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WayNeacTia
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Postby WayNeacTia » Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:32 am

Outer Sparta wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:OOC: Scroll to the top of the thread.

So basically this somehow went totally under the radar despite you posting the draft a week ago? Why didn't you wait for more feedback, as you are allowed to bump and ask for feedback if you don't get it.

It’s a repeal. How much more feedback is required other than yes or no?
Sarcasm dispensed moderately.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac

wait

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:41 pm

Wayneactia wrote:
Outer Sparta wrote:So basically this somehow went totally under the radar despite you posting the draft a week ago? Why didn't you wait for more feedback, as you are allowed to bump and ask for feedback if you don't get it.

It’s a repeal. How much more feedback is required other than yes or no?

At this point, there basically isn't much to go into, which I assume people are fine with it if they didn't comment earlier.
In solidarity with Ukraine, I will be censoring the letters Z and V from my signature. This is -ery much so a big change, but it should be a -ery positi-e one. -olodymyr -elensky and A-o- continue to fight for Ukraine while the Russians are still trying to e-entually make their way to Kharki-, -apori-h-hia, and Kry-yi Rih, but that will take time as they are concentrated in areas like Bakhmut, -uledar, and other areas in Donetsk. We will see Shakhtar play in the Europa League but Dynamo Kyi- already got eliminated. Shakhtar managed to play well against Florentino Pere-'s Real Madrid who feature superstars like -inicius, Ben-ema, Car-ajal, and -al-erde. Some prominent Ukrainian players that got big transfers elsewhere include Oleksander -inchenko, Illya -abarnyi, and Mykhailo Mudryk.

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The North Polish Union
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Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Fri Sep 10, 2021 4:17 pm

OOC: Bears Armed has ruled this legal. Nothing yet from the rest of the Secretariat
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!

User avatar
The North Polish Union
Senator
 
Posts: 4629
Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:52 am

OOC: In spite of reaching quorum, this lost approvals and fell out of queue, missing by 1 approval.
Last edited by The North Polish Union on Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Minskiev wrote:You are GP's dross.
Petrovsegratsk wrote:NPU, I know your clearly a Polish nationalist, but wtf is up with your obssession with resurrecting the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?
The yoshin empire wrote:Grouping russians with slavs is like grouping germans with french , the two are so culturally different.

.
Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da, podpalcie świat!
Author of S.C. Res. № 137
POLAND
STRONG!


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