[PASSED] End Conversion Therapy

[Trellania]

“Support, on one major condition; I assume the plan is still to submit this first, before proposing any repeals to the original resolution? We would be hesitant, for obvious reasons, if that ordering of things were reversed.”

OOC: It's the next resolution up for vote: https://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_vi ... 1623859204

[Tinhampton]

This has been approved by about 11% of all delegates. It will be voted on between the major updates of Wednesday 23rd June and Sunday 27th June.

AS OF 0345 BST ON WEDNESDAY: Approvals: 105 out of 58 needed (Tinhampton, TESDAI, Floyssauu, Creator Land, Calamari Lands, Vengeance2, Grey County, You Should See Me in a Crown, Gibraltarica, Agalaesia, The KOPish Islands, Zukchiva, Gurbangulistan, Londoniopol, New Bismuthium, Vest-Skandinavia, Hindu Puri, Grand Memeland, Enlais, Socialist States of Ludistan, Ruinenlust, Bearded Dragones, Omniabstracta, Seludong, Wischland, Felistia, LollerLand, Dollystana, Fritzentein, Krovnik, Zarnicovia nova, Krovx Luxembourg, J-O-E, Penguania and Antarctica, Krezenel, Robotox Empire, Pastries, CoraSpia, Emnaria, Zuleit, Novum Orientis, Soviet Socialist Antegria, Zombiedolphins, Narvatus, Spectral Empire, Il Osoris, COLI OF BROC, Molopovia, Calnodia, Dracolia, South Boston Irishmen, Libonesia, Paleocacher, Central Protectorate of Alkoholi, The Anarchist Federation of Spain, Golanchia, Terminum, Socruell, Elstomony, Federal republic of Socialsts, Candensia, Greylyn, Vampirus Sanguinaria, Orca and Narwhal, Spinys, Germany from nondescript period of time, The Hard Part, Reultan, Isaris, Some People on Planet Arcadia, Brocklandia, Fachumonn, Gladys and the drowning fish, Heromerland, Onionist Randosia, Silver-Tree, Ecolaria, Miyasaka, For The worlds of the midrim, Ekria, Panther, The Isles of Bermuda, San Lumen, Orioni 2, N E A C, Beepee, Karteria, Fsdh E, Alentejo and Algarve, Denathor, Momma Ayu, Brototh, Sun Burst, Duby, Rykkland, LasVegastan, TAF International, Nekomimea, Ench Table, Greater Cuba, Mallandia, Lamerdon, Nesquchii, Suvmia, Zoom-87)

[WayNeacTia]

Looks like TNP stacked against it early.

[Tinhampton]

I stacked for it earlier... six seconds earlier, to be precise

For: 898: Wischland (353), Primorye Oblast (229), Duby (158), Lesser Velutaria (133), Tinhampton (21), and (4) individual member nations.

Against: 1,068: Francois Isidore (1,002), Sylh Alanor (58), The Ancient World (2), and (6) individual member nations.

[New Anlandia]

"Our country supports this resolution, voting this will end the abuse that LGBTQ+ members can go through.

[Zarulia]

GO AND VOTE

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This proposal has been submitted to the General Assembly Civil Rights Board.
NOTE: at 1122 BST on the 17th of June 2021, this proposal reached quorum with Elstomony's approval, the 59th all told.

---

Character count: 683
Word count: 98

Alexander Smith, Tinhamptonian Delegate-Ambassador to the World Assembly: We are aware of the Ban on Conversion Therapy. My colleagues will be seeking to repeal that shortly after the passage of this - which, as far as I know, is more wide-reaching.

OOC: Refer to Victor Madrigal-Borloz's findings on Practices of so-called "conversion therapy" and the Ban Conversion Therapy campaign. Regarding Article c, see GA#91.

(Image)
End Conversion Therapy
A resolution to improve worldwide human sapient and civil rights.

Category: Civil Rights

Strength: Mild

Proposed by: Tinhampton

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Believing that LGBTQ+ people should not be persecuted simply for being LGBTQ+, the General Assembly hereby:

1. defines "conversion therapy" as those interventions meant to alter or reverse any person's sexual orientation or gender identity,
2. requires member states to prohibit the practice and advertisement of conversion therapy in all circumstances,
3. clarifies that this resolution does not affect the right of willing individuals to seek and receive gender-adequation or -affirmation procedures, and
4. strongly recommends that members provide all necessary and relevant support to those who have already undergone, or are likely to undergo, conversion therapy.

yes my country is against conversion therapy but you know, different countries have different culture and norms and you can't just force this to nations that are conservative.
I'm not conservative by any means but if this "World Assembly" thing wanted to promote freedom, then the WA should not force any laaws that might not be compatible with certain nations, you can't just force nations this and that.

[Tinhampton]

OP snip

yes my country is against conversion therapy but you know, different countries have different culture and norms and you can't just force this to nations that are conservative.
I'm not conservative by any means but if this "World Assembly" thing wanted to promote freedom, then the WA should not force any laaws that might not be compatible with certain nations, you can't just force nations this and that.

Were that the case, the WA would have passed exactly one resolution, namely The World Assembly.

I note that you have entitled your post "cringy liberals." I as an OOC person am not a "liberal" in the American sense of the word and nor is Delegate-Ambassador Smith.

[In Insulam Autem Sanguis Et Magia]

"For once, we agree with the German delegation. Gender expression is a rather broad umbrella, and prohibiting anything which alters it as 'conversion therapy' would make it illegal to set various dress codes, including for prison inmates and military members."

What would be the preferred alteration to alleviate this concern? Something along the line of adding intent? How would that be enforced?

[Bri Tawil]

I, King William the absolute monarch of Bri Tawil would love to express My opinions on the matter.

We would love to make a compromise, we should ban anyone under the age of 16 going to conversion therapy as most aren't mentally mature enough to understand the negative outcomes. However if you want me to intervene in my free economy, then no. We would love to spread civil rights as far as we can, however this is not acceptable.

Thus, the great kingdom of Bri Tawil will vote against implementing this in our government. We aren't going to act on behalf of our citizens, and if they're mentally mature enough than they're free to go to conversion therapy.

Nobody against their will shall go to Conversion Therapy.



-King William l

[The Hazar Amisnery]

I understand that conversion therapy doesn't work but why do we need a law to stop it? Everyone knows that its un-ethical and its just torture so you can still go around and arrest people for doing it anyway. Conversion therapy is also a religious and cultural thing so it should be the nations choice whether to ban it or not. What if the person wants to go to conversion therapy?

[Laka Strolistandiler]

As we’ve stated before, we’re still opposed to the idea of regulating the actions of fully informed and educated adults. Laka has voted against this resolution and will resign from this assembly if it does pass.

[Ikania]

I understand that conversion therapy doesn't work but why do we need a law to stop it? Everyone knows that its un-ethical and its just torture so you can still go around and arrest people for doing it anyway. Conversion therapy is also a religious and cultural thing so it should be the nations choice whether to ban it or not. What if the person wants to go to conversion therapy?

When nations choose to allow conversion therapy, children suffer. That's why we need a law to stop it. That's like asking why we need the WA in the first place -- because some states can't be trusted to do the right thing.

And that is why I give this measure my full support in spite of my misgivings over the apparent categorical ban on therapy for consenting adults in section B.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

I understand that conversion therapy doesn't work but why do we need a law to stop it? Everyone knows that its un-ethical and its just torture so you can still go around and arrest people for doing it anyway. Conversion therapy is also a religious and cultural thing so it should be the nations choice whether to ban it or not. What if the person wants to go to conversion therapy?

When nations choose to allow conversion therapy, children suffer. That's why we need a law to stop it. That's like asking why we need the WA in the first place -- because some states can't be trusted to do the right thing.

And that is why I give this measure my full support in spite of my misgivings over the apparent categorical ban on therapy for consenting adults in section B.

Maybe then we need to rework this proposal that it allows for conversion therapy for consenting adults?

[Sylh Alanor]

Against: ... Sylh Alanor (58)

OOC: After a discussion within the region about my lingering concerns over clause D., I have flipped my vote. I have been persuaded that GAR 523 will still protect LGBT citizens, which is satisfactory.

I still very much wish you would have removed "or who are likely to undergo", however.

[Ikania]

When nations choose to allow conversion therapy, children suffer. That's why we need a law to stop it. That's like asking why we need the WA in the first place -- because some states can't be trusted to do the right thing.

And that is why I give this measure my full support in spite of my misgivings over the apparent categorical ban on therapy for consenting adults in section B.

Maybe then we need to rework this proposal that it allows for conversion therapy for consenting adults?

A little too late methinks. And a second repeal-and-replace for CT with the new ban fresh off the books and the repeal not even on the table yet is speaking a little too soon.

[Laka Strolistandiler]

Maybe then we need to rework this proposal that it allows for conversion therapy for consenting adults?

A little too late methinks. And a second repeal-and-replace for CT with the new ban fresh off the books and the repeal not even on the table yet is speaking a little too soon.

Since the first draft of this proposal we were trying to push through the changes that would’ve included a way for informed and consenting adults to undergo conversion therapy, yet were rejected on the basis of the potential harm that it would do to the LGBTQ community. Not like we care about it, but you have to agree: consenting adults should be able to do whatever the hell they want with their bodies. As I’ve stated before, such level of regulation of personal lives within the WA is unacceptable and we’re planning to resign should this resolution pass, thank you and have a nice day.

[The Calabash Protectorate]

We of the Protectorate cannot vote for the passage of this resolution.

1) The opening clause "defining "conversion therapy" as those interventions meant to alter or reverse any person's sexual orientation or gender identity," is contradictory.
By definition, sexual orientation is an alteration of biological gender (in some persons). This resolution is vague enough to prohibit the alteration of 'conversion' of a biological cis-female to binary male as a form of gender identity in their own being.

2) For the second clause, "requiring member states to prohibit the practice and advertisement of conversion therapy in all circumstances" again the term conversion therapy needs to directly distinguish itself from the reversion from sexual orientation (or the outward display of a preferred gender) back to the biological gender, as opposed to simple the changing of gender, which gender expression is.

3) As addressed multiple times above, a consenting adult of sound mind and judgement undergoing conversion therapy of their own will and choice should equate (in our opinion) to that of a consenting adult of sound mind and judgement undergoing gender transition from their biological gender to their preferred gender. However while the third clause is worded "clarifies that this resolution does not affect the right of willing individuals to seek and receive gender-adequation or -affirmation procedures", the second clause prohibits the enactment of the third clause. We again opine that the vagueness of the writing has caused this contradiction.

4) Finally, the term 'relevant support' needs to be clarified. Who decides what is relevant? What is support?
Is support monetary, reparatory, legal, personal, psychological, physiological, etc...

It is for these reasons that we cannot support the passage of this legislation.

[Saint Helga]

"Our nation will not be forced to accept an agenda propogated by sinners and secularists, and thats final."

[Meretica]

Sen. Phineas Black, the newly appointed leader of the Meretican Delegation to the World Assembly, stands and announces the following:

"Upon having spoken with President Ross, the Queen, and the Imperial Senate, Meretica has agreed to pledge its support to end conversion therapy once and for all. This notorious practice goes against our moral and ethical ideals and, even among the socially conservative Senators, it goes against our basic principles that govern our day-to-day lives. The mental trauma that so many people, especially children, undergo in these so-called therapy sessions is abominable and it must be stamped out now."

[Figu]

El Presidente Phoenix of the Republic of Figu has declared that we are to vote against this proposal. The vagueness and abridging of our people's civil rights are unacceptable. Our people have the right to do as they please. I, Peneltomo, leader of Figu's Delegation to the World Assembly, have been instructed to vote against this proposal.

We strongly believe in the civil rights of our people, and will not have them infringed by Leftist "do-gooders". The Republic shall fulfill its sworn duty to fight the Reds wherever they may appear, and it shall fight them here as well. Such actions were what lead to the destruction of the old order. We shall not allow it to happen again. We already have laws banning it for children, and consenting adults can do as they wish. It infringes on our people's religious freedom as well, preventing them from seeking conversion therapy should homosexuality or other sexualities banned or shunned in their religion. Until the vagueness is removed, and people are allowed to do it should they seek it, we shall have to vote against it with gusto.

- Chief Delegate Peneltomo

[Tehmistan]

the kingdom of tehmistan will not be supporting this resolution in its current form due to its protection of gender identity which is to the contrary of the kingdoms gender critical beliefs

[New Ionian islands]

you have my full support here, but what happens when someone that is an adult WANTS the therapy? I think the resolution says that it should be outlawed in any circumstances.

[Northern Ambulancia]

We as the free nation of ambulancia ask:
That's all? so not going into details just 4 lines of ambiguous rhetorics? comparing to the last one we had this does not provide enough explanation and i don't know why is it getting so many votes, same people who where against the last one since it "lacked" the needed criterias are voting for this, clear violation of the right to vote.

[Sojenre]

Sojenre will not be supporting this resolution as it is of our opinion that it is not sufficiently different to resolution #437 to warrant replacement.

[Separatist Peoples]

When nations choose to allow conversion therapy, children suffer. That's why we need a law to stop it. That's like asking why we need the WA in the first place -- because some states can't be trusted to do the right thing.

And that is why I give this measure my full support in spite of my misgivings over the apparent categorical ban on therapy for consenting adults in section B.

Maybe then we need to rework this proposal that it allows for conversion therapy for consenting adults?

"I've heard this before, ambassador. Will your nation make good on this promise this time?"