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[DRAFT #2] Electoral Equality Act

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Kenmoria
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6604
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:27 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

Maria vyn Nysen sighs again, visibly torn. "The ideal of giving everyone the right to vote looks pretty from the outside, but has several pockets of worms when examined from the inside," she pursed her lips and remained silent for a moment. "Delegate-Ambassador Smith, couldn't the crimes the delegation of Bananaistan mentioned be worked into the definition of a "relevant crime"? Or perhaps a step further: any crime that significantly violates the morals of a society? Or of civilised society? Or "the morals upheld by this august body"?"

“I must completely disagree with this, ambassador. The entire point of this proposal is to ensure that the right to vote is given to all, as a right generally should be. Though those crimes are indeed abominable, the perpetrators thereof will not impair anyone else’s rights by voting, so there is no proper basis for restricting their right to vote. If rights are based on someone maintaining good conduct, then I question whether they are rights at all. The right to movement being impaired in prison is an exception, because that exists to prevent further crime, which voting does not cause.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2977
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:39 pm

Trellania wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:"I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."


"Despite being from a 'backwards hellhole' that is considering 'dictating to you how you vote,' I am curious to see what the delegate from Tinhampton has to say about this.

"Though, ambassador, I will note the only thing keeping me from supporting this in all forms just to watch you foaming at the mouth at some 'dictatorship building goodwill by sticking its oar in' is my oath to my Queen as a knight and the very serious ramifications that would befall me should I betray it. How interesting, then, that the very qualities of my nation you detest are the ones that make me more inclined to hear the answer to your charge. What great irony it is."


“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst them should and shouldn’t vote.


Kenmoria wrote:
Daarwyrth wrote:Maria vyn Nysen sighs again, visibly torn. "The ideal of giving everyone the right to vote looks pretty from the outside, but has several pockets of worms when examined from the inside," she pursed her lips and remained silent for a moment. "Delegate-Ambassador Smith, couldn't the crimes the delegation of Bananaistan mentioned be worked into the definition of a "relevant crime"? Or perhaps a step further: any crime that significantly violates the morals of a society? Or of civilised society? Or "the morals upheld by this august body"?"

“I must completely disagree with this, ambassador. The entire point of this proposal is to ensure that the right to vote is given to all, as a right generally should be. Though those crimes are indeed abominable, the perpetrators thereof will not impair anyone else’s rights by voting, so there is no proper basis for restricting their right to vote. If rights are based on someone maintaining good conduct, then I question whether they are rights at all. The right to movement being impaired in prison is an exception, because that exists to prevent further crime, which voting does not cause.”


“But you’re happy enough with the vote being stripped from communist rebels? Typical liberal: always allying with the hard right and fascists against socialists.”
Last edited by Bananaistan on Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.
Ideological Bulwark #281
THIS

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Greater Cesnica
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 7651
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:40 pm

Bananaistan wrote:["I note that the general principle of this being a voting charter for murderers, rapists and kiddy fiddlers has not been addressed here."

"I would provide voting rights to utter scum than disenfranchise all the criminals not exempted by this prohibition. In addition, just consider all of the wrongfully convicted that will enjoy enfranchisement thanks to this resolution.

Though, I will note, that I prefer the last two exemptions pertaining to killing or serious injury being inflicted for a political goal and crimes pertaining to the overthrow of a government or governmental subdivision to be nixed from this draft. I do believe that if we will be granting pedophiles and child killers enfranchisement, that we should grant the same to rebels imprisoned for resisting tyranny."
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Trellania » Wed Jun 09, 2021 3:56 pm

Bananaistan wrote:
Trellania wrote:
"Despite being from a 'backwards hellhole' that is considering 'dictating to you how you vote,' I am curious to see what the delegate from Tinhampton has to say about this.

"Though, ambassador, I will note the only thing keeping me from supporting this in all forms just to watch you foaming at the mouth at some 'dictatorship building goodwill by sticking its oar in' is my oath to my Queen as a knight and the very serious ramifications that would befall me should I betray it. How interesting, then, that the very qualities of my nation you detest are the ones that make me more inclined to hear the answer to your charge. What great irony it is."


“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst should and shouldn’t vote.”


"And yet, this assembly has accepted my nation and allows me to present my voice here. So that means any vote I give, regardless of the issue it is, will involve my noble title dictating to the proletariat of 'so called liberal democracies.' If I vote in favor of healthcare, it will be the voice of the riche and the bourgeoisie saying the proletariat deserve it. If I vote to strengthen protections for them from the rich and powerful stealing their income, it will be a protection handed to them by the riche and the bourgeoisie. If I vote to preserve the rights of your own nation, it will be the riche and the bourgeoisie telling your people they may have what they have worked hard for.

"But as of yet, I have not heard an argument that is sufficient to convince me not to support this. I must even bow to the wisdom of Ambassador McCooley; he speaks wisdom. And I must admit that should my nation ever become a democracy, I would feel very uncomfortable risking an innocent person losing the right to their voice. No matter what class they are.

"I'm sorry, but I must agree with the wisdom stated by the delegated of Kenmoria, Daarwyrth, and Greater Cesnica. They are simply making too much sense."

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Bananaistan
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 2977
Founded: Apr 20, 2012
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:07 pm

Trellania wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:
“Ultimately no Bananaman will be foaming at the mouth because of this. The Party’s right to freedom of association is already enshrined in international law. But we do regret that the proletariat in the so called liberal democracies have to put up with you with your medieval title considering who amongst should and shouldn’t vote.”


"And yet, this assembly has accepted my nation and allows me to present my voice here. So that means any vote I give, regardless of the issue it is, will involve my noble title dictating to the proletariat of 'so called liberal democracies.' If I vote in favor of healthcare, it will be the voice of the riche and the bourgeoisie saying the proletariat deserve it. If I vote to strengthen protections for them from the rich and powerful stealing their income, it will be a protection handed to them by the riche and the bourgeoisie. If I vote to preserve the rights of your own nation, it will be the riche and the bourgeoisie telling your people they may have what they have worked hard for.

"But as of yet, I have not heard an argument that is sufficient to convince me not to support this. I must even bow to the wisdom of Ambassador McCooley; he speaks wisdom. And I must admit that should my nation ever become a democracy, I would feel very uncomfortable risking an innocent person losing the right to their voice. No matter what class they are.

"I'm sorry, but I must agree with the wisdom stated by the delegated of Kenmoria, Daarwyrth, and Greater Cesnica. They are simply making too much sense."


“If this is what counts for wisdom among the ruling class in Trellania, I am confident that it will shortly take its place among the democratic nations of the world. Those who are denied their fundamental human dignity, always take it by force eventually.

“The healthcare resolutions like every other possible proposal apply equally to your nation and mine, and all other members. Only these asinine voting rights resolution apply only to a select subgroup based on how they organise their affairs. It is fundamentally unjust to regulate voting in my nation while everyone in your nation, kiddy fiddler, war criminal or honest worker is denied a say.”
Last edited by Bananaistan on Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Delegation of the People's Republic of Bananaistan to the World Assembly
Head of delegation and the Permanent Representative: Comrade Ambassador Theodorus "Ted" Hornwood
General Assistant and Head of Security: Comrade Watchman Brian of Tarth
There was the Pope and John F. Kennedy and Jack Charlton and the three of them were staring me in the face.
Ideological Bulwark #281
THIS

User avatar
Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 159
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Father Knows Best State

Postby Trellania » Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:31 pm

Bananaistan wrote:“If this is what counts for wisdom among the ruling class in Trellania, I am confident that it will shortly take its place among the democratic nations of the world. Those who are denied their fundamental human dignity, always take it by force eventually.

“The healthcare resolutions like every other possible proposal apply equally to your nation and mine, and all other members. Only these asinine voting rights resolution apply only to a select subgroup based on how they organise their affairs. It is fundamentally unjust to regulate voting in my nation while everyone in your nation, kiddy fiddler, war criminal or honest worker is denied a say.”


"WA #10 does not apply to nations that do not have and will never develop nukes; my nation is one of them. WA #18 does not apply to any nation that never goes to war. WA #20 and #168 don't apply to landlocked nations. I can go on." Dame Allania sighs. "Do you want to repeal them because it's unfair they apply only to nations in certain categories? Should I protest #20 and #168 because they affect me when they don't affect some other nations?

"Frankly, ambassador, in the light of the number of resolutions this assembly has passed that don't impact all nations, your complaint about fairness is utterly pointless."

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Tinhampton
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8517
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:22 pm

OOC: I am extremely open to adding a requirement that prison staff in member states (if not all individuals other than the voter) not attempt to interfere with the process of voting, absentee or otherwise.
Anderson: Russel's suggestions have been noted.
Representative vyn Nysen is reminded that Smith is not taking part in the debate on this proposal; she and Comrade Ted are further reminded that the Bay Staters' now former resolution on Voting Equality for Freed Inmates did not allow member states to disenfranchise people simply because they were formerly-imprisoned "murderers, rapists or kiddy fiddlers" - to use his words.
For Ambassador McCooley... hmmm... the final section of Article a(ii), combined with Article d(i), is designed to allow member states to disenfranchise genuine traitors while preventing them from stripping the vote from those who have merely dissented against their governments. The second-to-last section was added as a result of vyn Nysen's concerns that "political terrorists" or thereabouts would otherwise be allowed to vote. I am, of course, open to following your suggestions in these regards if they are sufficiently well-received by others.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549, SC#356
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 45yo Tory woman; Cambridge graduate; possibly very controversial; currently reading The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt


"Katy Bourne, the Police and Crime Commissioner for Sussex, is the lead for stalking in Wales and England. She is also a victim of stalking."

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