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[Submitted] Repeal GA#550 "Freedom of association"

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Brezzia
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[Submitted] Repeal GA#550 "Freedom of association"

Postby Brezzia » Sat Apr 17, 2021 1:27 pm

The Brezzian delegation submitted to this Assembly a proposal to repeal GA#550 "Freedom of association".
Following requests from some Ambassadors, this delegation also submitted a draft to replace GA#550 "Freedom of association". However, our priority is the repeal of GA#550 than its replacement.

Repeal GA#550 "Freedom of association"

The General Assembly,

Recognizing GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association and its will to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Noting that GA#550 clause 1, which forces governments to "allow citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", does not allow Member Nations to prevent public officials, members of public administration, members of law enforcement and the armed forces, and the judiciary to join associations whose membership could lead to a conflict of interest for them,

Observing that GA#550 clause 1(a), which fully delegates the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, ​does not allow democratic Nations to prevent the application of
  1. discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of the members, even if these criteria are not justified by the aims of the association (e.g., sports, cultural or religious associations), and
  2. external interference and co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of the members of political organizations and workers' associations,

Highlighting that GA#550 clause 1(b), which vaguely mentions "national security", "national criminal law", and "commission of crimes", could be used by corrupt governments to justify
  1. the declaration of any political and non-political association that aims to improve the living conditions of the general population (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", even if the association does not seek to subvert the established order (e.g. by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism), and
  2. the declaration of any military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order as an organization "not involved in the commission of a crime", even if this maintenance deliberately worsens the living conditions of the general population (e.g., through repression of dissidents, state terrorism and genocide of minorities),

Concerned that GA#550, even opposing the imposition of criminal penalties for affiliating with an organisation not involved in the commission of a crime, does not explicitly prohibit the prosecution of members who have not been directly or indirectly involved in the illegal activities of their own association,

Hereby, repeals GA#550 "Freedom of association".


Draft 4
The General Assembly,

Recognizing GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association and its will to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Noting that GA#550 clause 1, which forces governments to "allow citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", does not allow member Nations to prevent public officials, members of public administration, members of law enforcement and the armed forces, and the judiciary to join associations whose membership could lead to a conflict of interest for them,

Observing that GA#550 clause 1(a), which fully delegates the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, ​allows the application of
  1. discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of the members, even if these criteria are not justified by the aims of the association (e.g., sports, cultural or religious associations), and
  2. co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of the members of political organizations,
Highlighting that GA#550 clause 1(b), which vaguely mentions "national security" and "national criminal law",allows corrupt governments to declare
  1. any political and non-political association that does not seek to subvert the established order (e.g. by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", even if it aims to improve the living conditions of the general population (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities, resistance movement against invading or tyrannical governments), and
  2. any military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order as an organization "not involved in the commission of a crime", even if this maintenance deliberately worsens the living conditions of the general population (e.g., through repression of dissidents, state terrorism and genocide of minorities),
Repeals the [resolution=GA#550]General Assembly Resolution #550 "Freedom Of Association"[/resolution].


Draft 3
The General Assembly,

Applauding GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association,

Recognizing the will of GA#550 to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Highlighting that GA#550 creates legislative gaps, in particular its provisions prevent member Nations and the WA itself from intervening to:
  1. avoid social and economic issues that would arise whitout a correct limitation of freedom of association because of GA#550 clause 1, which forces governments to "allow citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", thus:
    1. allowing public officials, members of public administration, law enforcement, armed forces and judiciary to join associations whose membership could lead to a conflict of interest for them (i.e., Masonry),
    2. allowing secret societies, to which the provisions of GA#550 1b could not be effectively applied thanks to their secrecy, whether they act in secret or that they keep the identities of their members secret,
  2. guarantee freedom of association for the entire population and solve the contrasts between unlimited freedom of association with other fundamental freedoms because of GA#550 clause 1a, which fully delegats the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, thus:
    1. allowing such organizations to apply discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of their members,
    2. allowing political organizatin to adopt co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of their members,
  3. support organizations that fight for the improvement of living conditions in a Nation (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities, resistance movement against invading or tyrannical governments) and contrast organizations that make them worse (e.g., through repression of dissidents, state terrorism and genocide of minorities) because of clause 1b, which vaguely mentions "national security" and "national criminal law", thus:
    1. allowing corrupt governments to declare any political and non-political association that does not really seek to subvert the established order (e.g., by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", even if this subversion aims to improve the living conditions of the general population,
    2. allowing corrupt governments to declare any military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order as an organization "not involved in the commission of a crime", even if this maintenance deliberately worsens the living conditions of the general population,

Repeals the [resolution=GA#550]General Assembly Resolution #550 "Freedom Of Association"[/resolution].


Draft 2
The World Assembly,

Applauding GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association,

Recognizing the will of GA#550 to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Noting that GA#550:
  1. guarantees "citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", thus:
    1. allowing members of the law enforcement, the armed forces and the judiciary to join political and fraternal organizations (i.e., Masonry) and possibly gain privileges and power,
    2. allowing secret societies, whether they act in secret or that they keep the identities of their members secret, to which the provisions of GA#550 1b could not be effectively applied thanks to their secrecy,
    3. preventing the member Nations from effectively solving the social, economic and political problems that would arise whitout a correct limitation of the freedom of association,
  2. fully delegates the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, thus:
    1. allowing such organizations to apply discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of their members,
    2. allowing political organizatin to adopt co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of their members,
    3. preventing the member Nations and the WA itself from intervening to effectively guarantee freedom of association for the entire population,
    4. preventing the member Nations and the WA itself from intervening to effectively solve the contrasts of unlimited freedom of association with other fundamental freedoms,
  3. vaguely mentions "national security" and "national criminal law", thus:
    1. allowing member Nations to declare any political and non-political association that does not really seek to subvert the established order (e.g., by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism or resistance to an invader) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", regardless of whether such subversion improves or worsens the living conditions of the general population,
    2. allowing military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order, regardless of whether such maintenance improves or worsens the living conditions of the general population,
    3. preventing the WA from supporting organizations that fight for the improvement of living conditions in a nation (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities, to resist invading) and from contrasting organizations that make them worse (e.g., through state terrorism and the genocide of minorities),

Repeals the [resolution=GA#550]General Assembly Resolution #550 "Freedom Of Association"[/resolution].


Draft 1
The World Assembly,

Applauding GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association,

Recognizing the will of GA#550 to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Noting that GA#550:
  1. guarantees "citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", thus:
    1. excluding foreigners,
    2. not considering the formation of a new organization, but only the association with a pre-established one,
    3. allowing members of the law enforcement, the armed forces and the judiciary to join political and fraternal organizations (i.e., Masonry) and possibly gain privileges and power,
    4. preventing the provisions of its own point 1b from being effectively applied to secret associations, whether they act in secret or that they keep the identities of their members secret,
  2. fully delegates the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, thus:
    1. allowing such organizations to apply discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of their members,
    2. allowing political organizatin to adopt co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of their members,
    3. preventing the member Nations and the WA itself from intervening to effectively guarantee freedom of association for the entire population,
  3. vaguely mentions "national security" and "national criminal law", thus:
    1. allowing member Nations to declare any political and non-political association that does not really seek to subvert the established order (e.g., by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism or resistance to an invader) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", regardless of whether such subversion improves or worsens the living conditions of the general population,
    2. allowing military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order, regardless of whether such maintenance improves or worsens the living conditions of the general population,

Repeals the [resolution=GA#550]General Assembly Resolution #550 "Freedom Of Association"[/resolution].
Last edited by Brezzia on Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:40 pm, edited 24 times in total.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
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Ardiveds
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Postby Ardiveds » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:06 pm

OOC: Don't even mention 'Nationstates' unless you want your proposal to be flagged as illegal for metagaming. Use 'members' or 'member nations' instead if that is what you mean. But if you really mean Nationstates as in the game, you can't mention the game in any proposal.
Last edited by Ardiveds on Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Sat Apr 17, 2021 2:53 pm

Ardiveds wrote:OOC: Don't even mention 'Nationstates' unless you want your proposal to be flagged as illegal for metagaming. Use 'members' or 'member nations' instead if that is what you mean. But if you really mean Nationstates as in the game, you can't mention the game in any proposal.

Thank you! The earlier resolutions refer to the member nations with the term "nationstates" and I thought I could have used it. I didn't know it would be a fatal mistake!


Nation Name: Brezzia
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Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
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Postby North Supreria » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:00 pm

North Supreria is concerned about GA#550 "Freedom of Association", as we already mentioned in the proposal prepared by the ambassador of Scalizagasti. On the other hand, we also express our concerns about immediately trying to repeal a "likely" just adopted proposal. Without a clear, proper replacement of GA#550, it doesn't seem helpful to North Supreria to immediately hold a new vote on the withdrawal of a "likely", just passed proposal. Until then, we will respect the General Assembly's democratic decision regarding GA#550.
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Postby Tsaivao » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:16 pm

OOC: Completely unrelated, but this was too funny not to reference
Image
God damn liberals, tryn' to take our asses!!


IC: I believe that this is a well-crafted repeal with some good arguments, but I also am not sure if this is an entirely necessary repeal. I think that many of the problems mentioned could not be solved without stripping back on the provisions provided in the original legislation and letting national sovereignty take hold. I'll reserve my vote for if/when a replacement bill comes around.
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Boston Castle
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Postby Boston Castle » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:09 pm

North Supreria wrote:North Supreria is concerned about GA#550 "Freedom of Association", as we already mentioned in the proposal prepared by the ambassador of Scalizagasti. On the other hand, we also express our concerns about immediately trying to repeal a "likely" just adopted proposal. Without a clear, proper replacement of GA#550, it doesn't seem helpful to North Supreria to immediately hold a new vote on the withdrawal of a "likely", just passed proposal. Until then, we will respect the General Assembly's democratic decision regarding GA#550.

Among other issues I have with both this repeal and Scalizagasti's repeal: I'm not going to back any repeal, and will actively campaign against a repeal, unless there's a suitable replacement. And a suitable, legal replacement is going to be pretty much the same as the current one.
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Postby Outer Sparta » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:33 pm

The repeal does not make a good enough argument. Against.
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Postby Calamari Lands » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:00 am

"Calamari Lands' WA Delegacy officially supports Scalizagasti's Repeal over this one after comparing them."
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:05 am

Tsaivao wrote:OOC: Completely unrelated, but this was too funny not to reference
(Image)
God damn liberals, tryn' to take our asses!!


IC: I believe that this is a well-crafted repeal with some good arguments, but I also am not sure if this is an entirely necessary repeal. I think that many of the problems mentioned could not be solved without stripping back on the provisions provided in the original legislation and letting national sovereignty take hold. I'll reserve my vote for if/when a replacement bill comes around.


I also think that it would be enough to leave the regulation of these problems to national sovereignty, but this resolution does not allow nations to regulate it.

Brezzia supports the nationalization of asses


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
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North Supreria
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Postby North Supreria » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:14 am

Boston Castle wrote:Among other issues I have with both this repeal and Scalizagasti's repeal: I'm not going to back any repeal, and will actively campaign against a repeal, unless there's a suitable replacement. And a suitable, legal replacement is going to be pretty much the same as the current one.


North Supreria would like to point out to the ambassador of Boston Castle that we also do not expect a clear, proper replacement of GA#550 to be very different from the current adopted proposal. However, it is important to better describe , reformulate and expand clause 1b, so that member states cannot abuse this law at the expense of human rights.

Calamari Lands wrote:"Calamari Lands' WA Delegacy officially supports Scalizagasti's Repeal over this one after comparing them."


North Supreria joins the representative of Calamari Lands, provided that tehre is a suitable replacement, something that is fortunately being worked on at the moment.
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Postby Bananaistan » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:46 am

"Under GAR#35, member states cannot treat foreigners differently to citizens without a compelling practical purpose.

"Forming new organisations is inherent in the right to associate with organisation. The argument misrepresents the repeal.

"There's nothing inherently wrong with law enforcement etc forming fraternal organisations. A reasonable member state wishing to stop armed forces etc joining such associations which might lead to gaining "privileges and power" is not obliged to recognise or deal with such organisations and can easily defang it by making it illegal for any behind the scenes conspiracy to gain or exercise influence by such organisations.

"Have no idea what 1d means but it seems wrong.

"Clause 2 then argues that freedom to associate is inherently wrong.

"As for clause 3, national security and criminal law are important considerations. It would appear that you want every member nation to be forced to permit all sorts of organised crime and paramilitaries to operate and organise. This is nutse.

"This repeal does not identify any fatal flaw in the target. It incoherently argues that there's both too much and too little freedom of association. Strongly opposed."
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Postby Opiachus » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:01 am

Boston Castle wrote:
North Supreria wrote:North Supreria is concerned about GA#550 "Freedom of Association", as we already mentioned in the proposal prepared by the ambassador of Scalizagasti. On the other hand, we also express our concerns about immediately trying to repeal a "likely" just adopted proposal. Without a clear, proper replacement of GA#550, it doesn't seem helpful to North Supreria to immediately hold a new vote on the withdrawal of a "likely", just passed proposal. Until then, we will respect the General Assembly's democratic decision regarding GA#550.

Among other issues I have with both this repeal and Scalizagasti's repeal: I'm not going to back any repeal, and will actively campaign against a repeal, unless there's a suitable replacement. And a suitable, legal replacement is going to be pretty much the same as the current one.

Our delegation concurs with the position of the author of the current resolution. We think the current resolution is elegant and strikes a balanced, reasonable approach to the issue. We also have non-material reasons for opposing a fast repeal. We think repealing a resolution immediately after adoption is not in the best interests of the World Assembly as it impugns the reputation of the Assembly as a competent and representative decision-making body.

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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:36 am

Bananaistan wrote:"Under GAR#35, member states cannot treat foreigners differently to citizens without a compelling practical purpose.

"Forming new organisations is inherent in the right to associate with organisation. The argument misrepresents the repeal.

"There's nothing inherently wrong with law enforcement etc forming fraternal organisations. A reasonable member state wishing to stop armed forces etc joining such associations which might lead to gaining "privileges and power" is not obliged to recognise or deal with such organisations and can easily defang it by making it illegal for any behind the scenes conspiracy to gain or exercise influence by such organisations.

"Have no idea what 1d means but it seems wrong.

"Clause 2 then argues that freedom to associate is inherently wrong.

"As for clause 3, national security and criminal law are important considerations. It would appear that you want every member nation to be forced to permit all sorts of organised crime and paramilitaries to operate and organise. This is nutse.

"This repeal does not identify any fatal flaw in the target. It incoherently argues that there's both too much and too little freedom of association. Strongly opposed."


Thanks for the clarification on GA # 35 and the formation of new organizations.

Fratenal organizations advocate support among their members, therefore the participation of law enforcement members in these organizations could cause favoritism (e.g. during an investigation).

Not recognising or not dealing a fraternal organization does not mean preventing that participation in it allows you to gain privileges and power. E.g., an organization can recruit members in the productive categories of the country, facilitating the conclusion of contracts or the allocation of jobs among its members. In some countries, this would be illegal in the public sector but not in the private sector, and the members of the association would acquire an economic advantage towards non-members even in the allocation of public contracts. In the case of the military, it could facilitate the award of contracts for military supplies.

1b is bad written, my fault. It should concern secret societies, to which the provisions of GA#550 1b could not be effectively applied, thanks to their secrecy.

Clause 2 argues that not allowing nations to rightly limit freedom of association will lead to contrast with other fundamental freedoms. Likewise, clause 1 does not list problems that should be addressed by the WA resolution, but problems that would arise if nations could not limit the right of association.

Clause 3 argus that allowing nations to arbitrarily decide which organizations are criminal and which are not, without the WA being able to take a stand on the matter, would lead to the WA being unable to commend organizations that fight for the improvement of living conditions in a nation (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities, to resist invading) and to condemn organizations that make them worse (e.g., through state terrorism and the genocide of minorities).

Thank you for the corrections you suggested and I hope I have cleared up some misunderstandings. I will remove clauses 1a and 1b and correct clause 1d (which will become 1b) to make it more understandable.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
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Postby Brezzia » Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:24 am

I've made a new draft that reorganizes the text and hopefully makes it clearer.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:08 am

Edited with spelling and grammar errors removed.
The General Assembly,

Applauding GA#550's attempt to secure freedom of association,

Recognizing the will of GA#550 to extend the implementation of its provisions as much as possible,

Highlighting that GA#550 creates legislative gaps, as its provisions prevent member nations and the WA itself from intervening to:
  1. prevent social and economic issues that would arise without a correct limitation of freedom of association because of clause 1, which forces governments to "allow citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing", thus:
    1. allowing public officials, members of public administration, members of law enforcement and the armed forces, and the judiciary to join associations whose membership could lead to a conflict of interest for them (i.e., Masonry) and
    2. allowing secret societies, to which the provisions of clause 1(b) can not be effectively applied thanks to their secrecy, whether they act in secret or whether they keep the identities of their members secret,
  2. guarantee freedom of association for the entire population and solve the contrasts between unlimited freedom of association with other fundamental freedoms because of clause 1(a), which fully delegates the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations, thus:
    1. allowing such organizations to apply discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of their members and
    2. allowing political organizations to adopt co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of their members, or to
  3. support organizations that fight for the improvement of living conditions in a Nation (e.g., associations for freedom of speech, for the rights of minorities, resistance movements against invading or tyrannical governments) and oppose organizations that make them worse (e.g., through repression of dissidents, state terrorism and genocide of minorities) because of clause 1(b), which vaguely mentions "national security" and "national criminal law", thus:
    1. allowing corrupt governments to declare any political and non-political association that does not seek to subvert the established order (e.g. by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", even if this subversion aims to improve the living conditions of the general population and
    2. allowing corrupt governments to declare any military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order as an organization "not involved in the commission of a crime", even if this maintenance deliberately worsens the living conditions of the general population,

Repeals [resolution=GA#550]General Assembly Resolution #550 "Freedom Of Association"[/resolution].


Red strike-throughs are illegalities that you need to remove.

I should note that this modification does not imply support for this draft. On the contrary, I regard the premise as untenable, and will strongly oppose this repeal if it is submitted.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Brezzia
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Postby Brezzia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:20 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:Edited with spelling and grammar errors removed.

Red strike-throughs are illegalities that you need to remove.

I should note that this modification does not imply support for this draft. On the contrary, I regard the premise as untenable, and will strongly oppose this repeal if it is submitted.

Thank you for your help despite your opposition to this proposal. I appreciate your sincerity.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

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Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 am

Brezzia wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Edited with spelling and grammar errors removed.

Red strike-throughs are illegalities that you need to remove.

I should note that this modification does not imply support for this draft. On the contrary, I regard the premise as untenable, and will strongly oppose this repeal if it is submitted.

Thank you for your help despite your opposition to this proposal. I appreciate your sincerity.

No worries.
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Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Trellania » Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:31 am

Dame Allania Trueblood yawns as she walks in. Strangely, she is wearing a black fuzzy domino-style face mask and cat ears. She stops to look over the proposal and raises an eyebrow.

allowing secret societies, to which the provisions of clause 1(b) can not be effectively applied thanks to their secrecy, whether they act in secret or whether they keep the identities of their members secret,


"I do not see this as a problem. If your nation cannot effectively enforce laws where secret societies are involved, that is the fault of your law enforcement."

allowing such organizations to apply discriminatory criteria based on sex, ethnicity, language, religion, personal and social conditions in the selection of their members


"This sounds like you are having problems with your own law enforcement. Would you like some pointers in how to make them more effective? I am certain this fine assembly has many members who could help."

allowing political organizations to adopt co-optative and undemocratic methods in the selection of their members,


"How is this an issue? If it is against your laws, that is a matter for your own law enforcement. And some organizations function better when they are not democratic."

allowing corrupt governments to declare any political and non-political association that does not seek to subvert the established order (e.g. by preparing a revolution or carrying out acts of guerrilla or terrorism) as an organization "involved in the commission of a crime", even if this subversion aims to improve the living conditions of the general population


"Just because your reasoning is just and your cause just does not mean you are not still committing a crime. Vigilantes can act to promote justice, but even if they are what they are doing is often still illegal. And to be honest, this sounds like you are attempting to sneakily legislate what style of government may be present within this assembly."

allowing corrupt governments to declare any military and paramilitary associations that act to maintain the established order as an organization "not involved in the commission of a crime", even if this maintenance deliberately worsens the living conditions of the general population,


"I need to go back and recheck the passed resolutions, but I think this is already illegal under other legislation."

User avatar
Brezzia
Envoy
 
Posts: 288
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Brezzia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:15 am

Brezzian Ambassador, with his eyes hidden by thick glasses, reads a statement in an extremely monotone voice:

"Brezzian delegation submits to this assembly a fourth draft, which reorganies the text and remove references to secret associations.

Trellania wrote:"I do not see this as a problem. If your nation cannot effectively enforce laws where secret societies are involved, that is the fault of your law enforcement."
"This sounds like you are having problems with your own law enforcement. Would you like some pointers in how to make them more effective? I am certain this fine assembly has many members who could help."
"How is this an issue? If it is against your laws, that is a matter for your own law enforcement. And some organizations function better when they are not democratic."

Brezzian delegation believes that the provisions of GA#550 prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws without violating this resolution.

Trellania wrote:"How is this an issue? If it is against your laws, that is a matter for your own law enforcement. And some organizations function better when they are not democratic."

In this clause, Brezzian delegation exclusively refers to political associations, in which we believe a democratic functioning is desirable, and keeps believing that GA#550 resolution prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws.

Trellania wrote:"Just because your reasoning is just and your cause just does not mean you are not still committing a crime. Vigilantes can act to promote justice, but even if they are what they are doing is often still illegal."

Brezzian delegation argues that the provisions of GA#550 could be used to prosecute minorities, even if they do not have destabilizing purposes for the country, and believes that, besides condemning, also preventing is a task of WA legislation.

Trellania wrote:"And to be honest, this sounds like you are attempting to sneakily legislate what style of government may be present within this assembly."

This delegation rejects Dame ambassador's accusations. The Workers' Council Republic of Brezzia openly advocates the world revolution of the proletarians and the liberation from the shackles of capitalism. We do not need to resort to such subterfuges to fulfill our just cause.

Trellania wrote:"I need to go back and recheck the passed resolutions, but I think this is already illegal under other legislation."

Brezzian delegation believes that in such a case the GA#550 resolution would be contrary to the passed resolutions.

Trellania wrote:Dame Allania Trueblood yawns as she walks in

Brezzian delegation suggest to Trellanian ambassador, Dame Allania Trueblood, adequate rest to preserve her health and judgment."

Brezzian Ambassador puts down the sheets of his speech and remains motionless in his light gray suit with his face turned forward, perhaps with his eyes blank.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

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Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Trellania » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:43 am

Brezzia wrote:Brezzian delegation believes that the provisions of GA#550 prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws without violating this resolution.


"Clause 1b specifically states, 'an organisation may have criminal penalties attached for association with it on the basis that it actively undermines national security, directs its members to violate national criminal law, includes the commission of crimes among its goals or activities, or spreads, or intends to spread, a message of hate directed toward a specific group.' The resolution specifically allows for enforcing it. The issue of effectiveness is left up to the capacities of police departments; your argument may have some merit if you are considering the most recent passed resolution, but that resolution is not an effective argument for repealing this one."

In this clause, Brezzian delegation exclusively refers to political associations, in which we believe a democratic functioning is desirable, and keeps believing that GA#550 resolution prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws.


"And Trellania believes it is unnecessary. But the beliefs of our respective nations as to how particular aspects of a society should be run are of no import to this international organization; what matters is how it affects the nations as a whole, and on that point alone I do not see any legitimate argument that it must be necessary, just like I see no legitimate argument it must be prohibited; it must be left up to the individual nations."

Brezzian delegation argues that the provisions of GA#550 could be used to prosecute minorities, even if they do not have destabilizing purposes for the country, and believes that, besides condemning, also preventing is a task of WA legislation.


"The persecution of minorities is already illegal under other legislation passed by this assembly. This particular resolution does not address it beyond Clause 1b because it does not need to."

This delegation rejects Dame ambassador's accusations. The Workers' Council Republic of Brezzia openly advocates the world revolution of the proletarians and the liberation from the shackles of capitalism. We do not need to resort to such subterfuges to fulfill our just cause.


"And in the wording you use to deny the accusation you prove the truth of it."

Brezzian delegation believes that in such a case the GA#550 resolution would be contrary to the passed resolutions.


"I see no evidence of that. Do you have proof, or is this a baseless accusation?"

Brezzian delegation suggest to Trellanian ambassador, Dame Allania Trueblood, adequate rest to preserve her health and judgment."


"My health and judgement are perfectly fine. I was just busy with tiring work prior to this."
Last edited by Trellania on Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Brezzia
Envoy
 
Posts: 288
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Brezzia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:15 pm

Trellania wrote:"Clause 1b specifically states, 'an organisation may have criminal penalties attached for association with it on the basis that it actively undermines national security, directs its members to violate national criminal law, includes the commission of crimes among its goals or activities, or spreads, or intends to spread, a message of hate directed toward a specific group.' The resolution specifically allows for enforcing it. The issue of effectiveness is left up to the capacities of police departments; your argument may have some merit if you are considering the most recent passed resolution, but that resolution is not an effective argument for repealing this one."

This delegation believes that the provisions of GA#550 prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws by delegating the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations and allowing citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing, even if those membership could lead to a conflict of interest for members of the State apparatus.

Trellania wrote:"And Trellania believes it is unnecessary. But the beliefs of our respective nations as to how particular aspects of a society should be run are of no import to this international organization; what matters is how it affects the nations as a whole, and on that point alone I do not see any legitimate argument that it must be necessary, just like I see no legitimate argument it must be prohibited; it must be left up to the individual nations."

This delegation believes that Brezzia cannot guarantee democracy in its own society without being in conflict with GA#550 resolution. With this repeal, Brezzia does not want to "export democracy" to non-democratic nations, but wants to protect it in democratic nations.

"The persecution of minorities is already illegal under other legislation passed by this assembly. This particular resolution does not address it beyond Clause 1b because it does not need to."

This delegation believes the generic "message of hate" reference can lead to distorted interpretations: a majority group could use it to crack down on local autonomist movements.

"And in the wording you use to deny the accusation you prove the truth of it."

This delegation does not understand how its proposal could undermine the integrity of the capitalist states. We believe Dame ambassador's allegations are inappropriate

"I see no evidence of that. Do you have proof, or is this a baseless accusation?"

This delegation believes that GA#550 facilitates the cover-up of repressive organizations by governments.

"My health and judgement are perfectly fine. I was just busy with tiring work prior to this."

Brezzian delegation suggest to Trellanian ambassador, Dame Allania Trueblood, to avoid overworking."


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

User avatar
Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Trellania » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:38 pm

Brezzia wrote:This delegation believes that the provisions of GA#550 prevent Nations Members from effectively enforcing laws by delegating the application of the right to freedom of association to organizations and allowing citizens to associate with any organization of their choosing, even if those membership could lead to a conflict of interest for members of the State apparatus.


"The resolution addresses that by allowing for such association to be criminalized, and further does not mandate the groups themselves cannot be criminalized too."

This delegation believes that Brezzia cannot guarantee democracy in its own society without being in conflict with GA#550 resolution. With this repeal, Brezzia does not want to "export democracy" to non-democratic nations, but wants to protect it in democratic nations.


"Ambassador, that is a problem for your own internal law enforcement and governmental policies. Trellania has found no problem with maintaining its traditional level of democracy under that resolution."

This delegation believes the generic "message of hate" reference can lead to distorted interpretations: a majority group could use it to crack down on local autonomist movements.


"Messages of hate are defined in other legislation. There is no need to define them here."

This delegation does not understand how its proposal could undermine the integrity of the capitalist states. We believe Dame ambassador's allegations are inappropriate


"When asked if you are trying to sneakily legislate a specific type of government, you responded by unconvincingly denying the allegation and advocating for political revolution. That alone is proof enough there is something underhanded with this repeal and replace."

This delegation believes that GA#550 facilitates the cover-up of repressive organizations by governments.


"So you have no evidence at all."

Brezzian delegation suggest to Trellanian ambassador, Dame Allania Trueblood, to avoid overworking."


"Please forgive me for this, but I do not see how my health is any of your concern. If you are trying to lay a foundation for dismissing my argument by suggesting a lack of competency due to fatigue, you will have to do better than that."

User avatar
Brezzia
Envoy
 
Posts: 288
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Brezzia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:13 pm

Brezzian Ambassador begins a new boring speech:
Trellania wrote:"The resolution addresses that by allowing for such association to be criminalized, and further does not mandate the groups themselves cannot be criminalized too."

"GA#550 delegate everything to organizations and then try to fix it. It is a laissez-faire resolution that first prevents governments from acting and then tries to remedy it by making the situation worse."

"Ambassador, that is a problem for your own internal law enforcement and governmental policies. Trellania has found no problem with maintaining its traditional level of democracy under that resolution."

"This delegation notices that it is a problem for many nations as evidenced by the low advantage of GA#550 when it was at vote and by the proposals of other nations regarding it."

"Messages of hate are defined in other legislation. There is no need to define them here."

"Does Dame Ambassador think that our proposal does not comply in this regard? Does GA#550 resolution brings substantial innovations?"

"When asked if you are trying to sneakily legislate a specific type of government, you responded by unconvincingly denying the allegation and advocating for political revolution. That alone is proof enough there is something underhanded with this repeal and replace."

"We do not understand how this prove that my proposal would harm other nations. Dame Ambassador accuses this delegation of sneakily legislation. She states that there are "particular aspects of a society should be run are of no import to this international organization". Security Council passed commendation that glorified children explotation in a capitalist nation. Are these particular aspects aspects of a society? If other countries can defend themselves from "revolutonary legislation", why cannot Brezzia defend itself from reactionary legislation? "
OOC: Having a communist nation, I responded in a revolutonary style.

"So you have no evidence at all."

"This delegation tried to explain its concerns even before. GA#550 even contradicts itself when it declares "Governments must allow citizens to associate with any organisation of their choosing" and then lists some exceptions."

"Please forgive me for this, but I do not see how my health is any of your concern. If you are trying to lay a foundation for dismissing my argument by suggesting a lack of competency due to fatigue, you will have to do better than that."

"This delegation apologizes if the Lady Ambassador was offended by its statements."
OOC: I was joking about your yawn. If I offended you, I'm sorry.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

User avatar
Trellania
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 188
Founded: Jun 07, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Trellania » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:41 pm

"Ambassador, the only way your challenge works at all is if multiple nations are either not in compliance with multiple World Assembly resolutions or if their police forces are incompetent.

"Neither of those problems are fixed by your repeal and replace effort.

"And this is not the Security Council. This is the General Assembly. Given that the real reason behind your actions lies with what they have passed, I would suggest you discuss that problem with them."

OOC: You haven't offended me. Dame Allania is former law enforcement and from an absolute monarchy. Both of those inform her style of argument.
Last edited by Trellania on Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Brezzia
Envoy
 
Posts: 288
Founded: Aug 26, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Brezzia » Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:13 pm

Trellania wrote:"Ambassador, the only way your challenge works at all is if multiple nations are either not in compliance with multiple World Assembly resolutions or if their police forces are incompetent.

"Neither of those problems are fixed by your repeal and replace effort.

"And this is not the Security Council. This is the General Assembly. Given that the real reason behind your actions lies with what they have passed, I would suggest you discuss that problem with them."

OOC: You haven't offended me. Dame Allania is former law enforcement and from an absolute monarchy. Both of those inform her style of argument.

"Dame Ambassador, unfortunately this delegation must note that nations that are either not in compliance with multiple WA resolutions or with incompetent police forces still exist. I would be a hypocrite if I said that there are no tyrannical or corrupt governments representing Member Nations in this assembly.

We are aware that this is not the Security Council, but we know that the Member Nations of the GA are also members of the SC and that several delegations contribute to the legislation of both bodies. We assure the Lady Ambassador that we are not moved by this inconvenience, resolved by a necessary repeal.

This delegation will continue in its attempt to fix the problems of GA#550 the problems we are concerned about and its resarch for the missing Gray... uhm... the previous Brezzian Ambassador in this assembly."

The new Brezzian Ambassador concludes his speech, while the members of the Brezzian delegation congratulate the still enthusiastic Deputy Ambassador.

OOC: I am relieved to hear this.


Nation Name: Brezzia
Official Name: Brezzian Workes' Council Republic
Capital city: Nova Sybaris
Region: Badge
WA Category: Left-wing Utopia
Embassy Program: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=544944
Government System: Council Republic
Economic System: Socialist
President of the Committee of the Republic: Nando Martellone
President of the Council of Commissars: Olga Demetri
Commissar for Foreign Affairs: Guido Forestieri
WA Permanent Representative: Carlo A. Van Vera

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