[PASSED] Protecting Imprisoned Youths

[Jedinsto]

In COOPDAWG, youth individuals will receive the help and counseling they need in substitute for going to prison. We believe that life is sometimes unfair and showing youth a path in the right direction is much better than setting their life up for trouble by placing them in prison.

Sounds nice and, nothing in this resolution stops you from continuing!

Also, a bit of a bump.

[South St Maarten]

In South St Maarten itself, permanent child imprisonment is outlawed, but I would offer my support to the proposal.

(Also, unless a permission form signed I presume you wanted it to be unless a permission form is signed)

[Jedinsto]

In South St Maarten itself, permanent child imprisonment is outlawed, but I would offer my support to the proposal.

(Also, unless a permission form signed I presume you wanted it to be unless a permission form is signed)

Thanks, for the catch and the support!

Edit: I just checked, and that's intentional. It wouldn't make sense to say "permission form is signed is given"

[Molopovia]

This bill is definitely something I would vote for. However, I feel that it may be more convincing if there is more regard given to requiring high and safe standards on juvenile facilities.

[Jedinsto]

This bill is definitely something I would vote for. However, I feel that it may be more convincing if there is more regard given to requiring high and safe standards on juvenile facilities.

I think I'm gonna leave quality of facilities and all to the national governments, maybe I'll add a recommendation clause, though.

Edit: Done.

[Jedinsto]

Next order of business- Category and strength/AoE. I'm thinking Moral Decency/Mild, but I can see a case for Civil Rights. Thoughts?

[South St Maarten]

In South St Maarten itself, permanent child imprisonment is outlawed, but I would offer my support to the proposal.

(Also, unless a permission form signed I presume you wanted it to be unless a permission form is signed)

Thanks, for the catch and the support!

Edit: I just checked, and that's intentional. It wouldn't make sense to say "permission form is signed is given"

No problemo

And also, Ah, I see. That makes sense, although I would word it "Unless a signed permission form is given", but that is up to you

[Bananaistan]

"While it is incredibly rare for the good communist children of Bananaistan to ever require imprisonment, we think this proposal actively harms the children of the international proletariat because it prevents authorities from immediately acting to safeguard children in bad situations.

"Furthermore, parents have already failed. Why should they now be given a veto on how the child they failed is treated by the state?

"And even so, either this protective confinement thing is bad for children or its not. It makes no sense to permit parents to make this decision.

"Other issues are 4b, children are children and adults are adults. Both have different sets of responsibilities to the revolution. "

[Jedinsto]

"While it is incredibly rare for the good communist children of Bananaistan to ever require imprisonment, we think this proposal actively harms the children of the international proletariat because it prevents authorities from immediately acting to safeguard children in bad situations.

"Furthermore, parents have already failed. Why should they now be given a veto on how the child they failed is treated by the state?

"And even so, either this protective confinement thing is bad for children or its not. It makes no sense to permit parents to make this decision.

"Other issues are 4b, children are children and adults are adults. Both have different sets of responsibilities to the revolution. "

OOC: I just realized that "Fair Treatment of Prisoners" actually bans holding a prisoner in protective confinement for their own protection unless they give informed consent. Due to the "minors can't really give informed consent" issue, I've decided I'm going to ban holding non-criminally insane youths in protective confinement altogether.

"Your points have been taken into consideration, ambassador. Clause 4b has been amended to be closer to the original intent without potential problems such as requiring imprisoned youths to be allowed to vote if the Tinhamptonian delegation's resolutions shall pass."

Edit: OOC: The part of leaving it to the parents to place the children in these reformative group meetings with the adult cons. Leaving that to the prison staff would be a god awful idea, and it would, again, raise the "youths can't give informed consent" problem to leave it to them.

[Jedinsto]

Bump.

[Rock Sturanst]

This is some cutting edge thinking. I support it!

[Jedinsto]

This is some cutting edge thinking. I support it!

Appreciated!

[Jedinsto]

It's been a week since I've made any changes/ gotten substantial feedback, so I'll consider submitting this in the next few weeks. If anyone has further comments on this now would be a good time to make them heard.

Also, /bump.

[Imperium Anglorum]

So what if the youth we want to protectively confine is at great threat of being murdered by other people in the prison? Say, the youth is known by some to be testifying in an upcoming case which will take down a big mafia don? Your proposal, by limiting justification of protective confinement to medical reasons only, would force member nations to adopt a policy not even of 'snitches get stitches' but rather 'snitches get closed casket funerals'.

[Jedinsto]

So what if the youth we want to protectively confine is at great threat of being murdered by other people in the prison? Say, the youth is known by some to be testifying in an upcoming case which will take down a big mafia don? Your proposal, by limiting justification of protective confinement to medical reasons only, would force member nations to adopt a policy not even of 'snitches get stitches' but rather 'snitches get closed casket funerals'.

My statement earlier on why I did this- "OOC: I just realized that "Fair Treatment of Prisoners" actually bans holding a prisoner in protective confinement for their own protection unless they give informed consent. Due to the "minors can't really give informed consent" issue, I've decided I'm going to ban holding non-criminally insane youths in protective confinement altogether."

Perhaps it would be better to just stay away from protective confinement? What do you think?

[Imperium Anglorum]

Repeal that resolution.

[Jedinsto]

Repeal that resolution.

I'm not sure that's really worth the effort, unless there's something else that we would want to add to a replacement.

[Imperium Anglorum]

I'm not going to vote for a proposal which forces member nations into a 'snitches get closed casket funerals' policy. I also agree with Banana that authorities have and ought to have parens patriae powers re immediate action. If you want to write a proposal which I think will survive any level of scrutiny, you will have to repeal the (flawed) resolution which prevents you from writing it.

[CoraSpia]

"It strikes us as barbaric that some nations both hold people below a particular age to be unable to consent to medical treatment, to use various substances and to defend themselves with the equipment available to older citizens yet are perfectly happy to deprive them of what liberty that they have by locking them away in prisons. Although the Havenic government will support any measure intended to promote the welfare of governmentally-kidnapped people of any age, we urge the author of this proposal to go one step further and support the abolition of prisons for young people. The prison environment is the opposite to what is needed to nurture a childs essential curiosity, social and reasoning skills and will lead to stunted minds in the future. It does not deserve the acceptance of the world assembly."

[Jedinsto]

"It strikes us as barbaric that some nations both hold people below a particular age to be unable to consent to medical treatment, to use various substances and to defend themselves with the equipment available to older citizens yet are perfectly happy to deprive them of what liberty that they have by locking them away in prisons. Although the Havenic government will support any measure intended to promote the welfare of governmentally-kidnapped people of any age, we urge the author of this proposal to go one step further and support the abolition of prisons for young people. The prison environment is the opposite to what is needed to nurture a childs essential curiosity, social and reasoning skills and will lead to stunted minds in the future. It does not deserve the acceptance of the world assembly."

"While this resolution will not be extended to such measures, the recommendation clause may be edited to include such a recommendation."

Repeal that resolution.

That repeal is now in the works. This resolution is on hold until further notice.

[Jedinsto]

So I had a discussion with GC, and he says he was aware of such a risk with minors potentially not being able to provide informed consent when he wrote FTP. He cites GAR#218, which covers informed consent as follows-"In the absence of a legally completed advance health care directive, WA member nations may permit an individual's legal guardian or next-of-kin to provide uncoerced, informed consent on behalf of a recipient in the event that the individual in question is under the threshold of majority or is otherwise unable to understand the information in question." This would be saying that the youth can provide informed consent. I have come to agree with that, and as such will drop the repeal and edit the draft as I was going to initially if others agree with GC's findings too.

[Imperium Anglorum]

So I had a discussion with GC, and he says he was aware of such a risk with minors potentially not being able to provide informed consent when he wrote FTP. He cites GAR#218, which covers informed consent as follows-"In the absence of a legally completed advance health care directive, WA member nations may permit an individual's legal guardian or next-of-kin to provide uncoerced, informed consent on behalf of a recipient in the event that the individual in question is under the threshold of majority or is otherwise unable to understand the information in question." This would be saying that the youth can provide informed consent. I have come to agree with that, and as such will drop the repeal and edit the draft as I was going to initially if others agree with GC's findings too.

That clause applies only to health care.

[Greater Cesnica]

So I had a discussion with GC, and he says he was aware of such a risk with minors potentially not being able to provide informed consent when he wrote FTP. He cites GAR#218, which covers informed consent as follows-"In the absence of a legally completed advance health care directive, WA member nations may permit an individual's legal guardian or next-of-kin to provide uncoerced, informed consent on behalf of a recipient in the event that the individual in question is under the threshold of majority or is otherwise unable to understand the information in question." This would be saying that the youth can provide informed consent. I have come to agree with that, and as such will drop the repeal and edit the draft as I was going to initially if others agree with GC's findings too.

That clause applies only to health care.

McCooley grimaces. "In that case, a repeal and replace would be in order, wouldn't it?"

[Jedinsto]

That clause applies only to health care.

McCooley grimaces. "In that case, a repeal and replace would be in order, wouldn't it?"

"This may be the case...."

[Greater Cesnica]

"Well then. Time to get to work."

EDIT:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=503271 (Repeal: "Fair Treatment Of Prisoners)
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=503270 (Fair Treatment Of Prisoners II)