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[DEFEATED] Protecting Convicted Voters

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Wayneactia
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Posts: 1719
Founded: Aug 01, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Wayneactia » Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:34 am

No. Voting laws are a matter of internal security and shall not be subjected to World Assembly interference.

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Androxis
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Aug 02, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Androxis » Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:32 am

I think everyone here has said what I wanted to say. Why should we let people like murderers and rapists have a right to vote. While I understand your reasoning in minor crimes, this replacement allows all to vote, all being the key word here. People such as murderers and rapists have themselves infringed upon the human rights of others and taken them away. Murderers take human lives. Why should these people have rights when they have taken such rights from others? Handing voting rights to murderers and rapists is simply disrespecting those who have been abused by them. What I am presenting is just a small example and this applies to other cases. Why should we give these men and women who have infringed upon and taken away the rights of others their very own rights. They have automatically forfeited them when they committed these crimes.

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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Apr 06, 2021 1:53 pm

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Bananaistan
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bananaistan » Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:13 pm

"In Bananaistan, generally electors must present themselves at a polling station in order to vote. If Joe Criminal is incarcerated on the day of an election, he is unable to present himself at a polling station. This proposal would not change that.

"Also, if you somehow managed to mandate that prisoners must get early release on election day, it wouldn't really matter anyway. So he can rock up the polling station and lodge his pre-filled ballot into the ballot box, thereby approving the Party's slate of candidates. Big deal. The Party's candidate selection process, open only to Party members in good standing, will remain - those serving a custodial sentence are not members in good standing for the duration of their incarceration."
Last edited by Bananaistan on Tue Apr 06, 2021 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:40 am

Bump for feedback - of which Banana's has been noted :P
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
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Feyrisshire
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Founded: Nov 27, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Feyrisshire » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:22 am

"AGAINST

GAR#419 already solves the problems of the discrimination given to those who had previously served a criminal sentence and allows democratic states flexibility and leeway in at least revamping its justice system with its democratic processes to conditions that suit it while at least generally increasing democratic freedoms.

This draft would also have little teeth, as it only enforces its provisions to nations which already had a working democratic system, as stated in Clause b, meaning that the burdens it gives to democratic nations and making the process of instituting a democratic system restrictive would actually give an incentive for nations with a nascent democracy to stop in the process of instituting democracy entirely. The rights and conditions of prisoners in non-democratic countries are also ignored.

There should be a blocker at least to ensure that voting for prisoners and those being punished for a crime only takes place when human rights conditions and living conditions for those prisoners are ensured to be decent and well, to prevent the chance of electoral duress. Otherwise, how can we ensure that prisoners living under prison slavery conditions are not voting under conditions of intimidation and duress?

Also normally we would agitate for more democratic rights for prisoners, such as the right to organize, right to association and participate in rallies and more democratic freedoms overall, making the fact that the right is only extended on "voting in an election in a public office" to be unduly and narrowly arbitrary."
Last edited by Feyrisshire on Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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North Supreria
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Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby North Supreria » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:38 pm

North Supreria finds the current concept of suffrage and human rights very interesting. The right to vote is too important to take away and we are therefore looking forward to voting in favor of this proposal to arrange this internationally.
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Illu-chi
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Founded: Feb 01, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Illu-chi » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:28 pm

Someone who does not respect the laws the government has passed(especially if the crime harms someone else) should not be able to vote for who should be in government. This should all be decided nationally not internationally. This also hurts election integrity.
Last edited by Illu-chi on Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ikania
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ikania » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:08 pm

While I personally believe convicted prisoners should have the right to vote, enforcing this idea is an overreach of the powers of the WA. Nations should have the right to set their own laws regarding franchise, and it would be inappropriate to tread on these rights.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:53 am

The comments of Illu-chi, North Supreria, and Ike have been noted. All commentary below is IC and delivered by Lydia Anderson.
I intend to file this proposal with the General Assembly Civil Rights Board in the coming days. Now, as to some recent complaints-I mean a recent complaint...

Feyrisshire wrote:"AGAINST

GAR#419 already solves the problems of the discrimination given to those who had previously served a criminal sentence and allows democratic states flexibility and leeway in at least revamping its justice system with its democratic processes to conditions that suit it while at least generally increasing democratic freedoms.

This draft would also have little teeth, as it only enforces its provisions to nations which already had a working democratic system, as stated in Clause b, meaning that the burdens it gives to democratic nations and making the process of instituting a democratic system restrictive would actually give an incentive for nations with a nascent democracy to stop in the process of instituting democracy entirely. The rights and conditions of prisoners in non-democratic countries are also ignored.

Resolutions making provisions about elections almost always apply only to nations that actually organise them. I am further confident that this will lead to no more de-democratisation than the now-former resolution on Voting Equality for Freed Inmates did. Suggestions about the actual scope of this proposal are mostly welcome.

Feyrisshire wrote:There should be a blocker at least to ensure that voting for prisoners and those being punished for a crime only takes place when human rights conditions and living conditions for those prisoners are ensured to be decent and well, to prevent the chance of electoral duress. Otherwise, how can we ensure that prisoners living under prison slavery conditions are not voting under conditions of intimidation and duress?

The honourable ambassador lady is referred to the resolution on the Treatment of Inmates.

Feyrisshire wrote:Also normally we would agitate for more democratic rights for prisoners, such as the right to organize, right to association and participate in rallies and more democratic freedoms overall, making the fact that the right is only extended on "voting in an election in a public office" to be unduly and narrowly arbitrary."

The Tinhamptonian delegation voted against the repeal and subsequent Maowese replacement of Freedom of Assembly at least in part due to some unfortunate... "tough-on-crime rhetoric," as the Scalizagastian ambassador would have it - and have been drafting a repeal thereof which will not be submitted until Ambassador Slick McCooley expresses a willingness to continue to draft his proposed replacement. In the meanwhile, PCV should be welcomed as a first step towards such reforms. Actual, concrete suggestions for the improvement of this particular draft remain welcome.
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Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
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New Decius
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Founded: Jul 24, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New Decius » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:32 am

“Her Imperial Majesties Government feels that granting the right to vote and participate in the democratic process to the incarcerated is, while a noble cause, not practical in all situations. For those convicted of minor crimes, Her Imperial Majesties’ Government already guarantee’s the right to continue in the democratic process. However, those convicted of the most heinous of crimes...to allow them to participate in such an august and noble act as helping direct the course of the nation, would seem to be an insult to their victims. Her Imperial Majesties’ Government must oppose this proposal and retain its right to deny such a right to the worst of humanity. Else proper justice would not be served.”
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Uan aa Boa
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Founded: Apr 23, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby Uan aa Boa » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:59 am

I'm opposed to this for the reasons articulated so well by Bananaistan. If it does go ahead, however, you need to look at the opening sentence on believing all eligible people should be able to vote. This is already the case in nations where convicts are disenfranchised, since in such nations they are ineligible. What you're trying to change is the definition of eligibility, not eligible people being denied a vote.

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Barfleur
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Founded: Mar 04, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Barfleur » Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:14 am

"As much as I oppose this proposal, it seems to me that the proposal may benefit from the addition of a third article, to ensure that prisoners voting from inside a prison are not voting under duress from other prisoners, gangs, and guards. The vote should be personal and individual, not belonging to whoever is most capable of intimidating the voter."
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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:01 am

Draft 1c, which includes a newer preamble and a completely new Article b, is now up... thank you, Feyrisshire and Barfleur and also Uan aa Boa :P

(IC and OOC: Bananaistan's electoral system is working as intended, as far as I'm concerned.)
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
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CoraSpia
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Founded: Mar 01, 2014
Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:03 am

Simple, good and effective. I will support.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:02 am

Thanks, GVH.

Absent any other major concerns, will submit at 5pm BST on Thursday OR 5pm BST on Friday.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 45yo Tory woman; Cambridge graduate; possibly very controversial; currently reading 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari

I STAND WITH PAM DUNCAN-GLANCY

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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:48 am

Tinhampton wrote:requires members to ensure that no person within their jurisdiction is prevented (or otherwise unduly restricted) from voting in a election for public office simply because they currently are being, or have previously been, punished for a crime,

OOC: Speaking OOCly because I'm not really in the mood for the IC derisive attitude that Araraukarians tend to have towards anything to do with the public voting or selecting leaders via a popularity contest. So if I read the above right, it's totally ok for a nation to require that to vote in an election, you need to be at the voting location on the day of the election (few RL nations - if any - actually do this without lots of exceptions, but NS nations are not always as sensible) for your vote to be cast. So anyone who for any reason (sickness, injury, incarceration, unable to get to the location because not everyone lives within a brisk walk of a voting location, etc.) can't make it there at the time, is not able to vote. That's not discriminating or "otherwise unduly restrict[ing]", as it applies to everyone, not just imprisoned peeps.

Was that the intention? If yes then yeay for reading comprehension.
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CoraSpia
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Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:01 am

Might be worth adding the following, or something similar:

'Requires nations whose voting system requires voters to be physically present at a polling place in order to cast their votes to provide adequate polling places in prisons'
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:35 am

CoraSpia wrote:Might be worth adding the following, or something similar:

'Requires nations whose voting system requires voters to be physically present at a polling place in order to cast their votes to provide adequate polling places in prisons'

OOC: But then, to not discriminate against people, they'd have to do that in every location where someone might be, unable to attend. Discrimination bites both ways.
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CoraSpia
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Anarchy

Postby CoraSpia » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:37 am

Araraukar wrote:
CoraSpia wrote:Might be worth adding the following, or something similar:

'Requires nations whose voting system requires voters to be physically present at a polling place in order to cast their votes to provide adequate polling places in prisons'

OOC: But then, to not discriminate against people, they'd have to do that in every location where someone might be, unable to attend. Discrimination bites both ways.

((OOC: A future resolution requiring ease of voting by, say, requiring the availability of postal votes may be in order, but that is rather outside of the intended scope of this proposal.))
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:40 am

CoraSpia wrote:but that is rather outside of the intended scope of this proposal.

OOC: Agreed.
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Great Algerstonia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Tue Apr 27, 2021 1:49 pm

"Opposed. Why should people that have committed treason against the state be allowed to participate in the very state they betrayed?"
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Outer Sparta
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:00 pm

Great Algerstonia wrote:"Opposed. Why should people that have committed treason against the state be allowed to participate in the very state they betrayed?"

Are you merely opposed to those that committed treason be allowed to vote or are you opposed to everyone with a criminal record being able to vote?
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Great Algerstonia
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Great Algerstonia » Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:08 pm

Outer Sparta wrote:
Great Algerstonia wrote:"Opposed. Why should people that have committed treason against the state be allowed to participate in the very state they betrayed?"

Are you merely opposed to those that committed treason be allowed to vote or are you opposed to everyone with a criminal record being able to vote?

"Algerstonen law mandates nobody with a criminal record being allowed to vote. We're willing change the law to let criminals vote should this proposal pass unless they're convicted of treason, murder, or stealing. But we recognize convincing the Tinhamptonians to change the draft to accomodate the two latter changes is a futile effort."
Last edited by Great Algerstonia on Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:38 am

CoraSpia's suggestion has been incorporated into Draft 1d - which is otherwise identical to Draft 1c - and he has been cited as a co-author.

The first three of this proposal's four clauses are requirements, not suggestions. Given that this draft is not in my extremely unofficial opnion using "mild language," does anybody else believe that this affects a broad enough area of policy to become a Significant proposal? And does anybody have any other important thoughts on this proposal before I give this one the go signal?
Last edited by Tinhampton on Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540, GA#549
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; Philosopher-Queen of Sophia; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
Who am I, really? 45yo Tory woman; Cambridge graduate; possibly very controversial; currently reading 21 Lessons for the 21st Century by Yuval Noah Harari

I STAND WITH PAM DUNCAN-GLANCY

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