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[QUEUED] Nuclear Aggression Act

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Jedinsto
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Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:58 pm

Separatist Peoples wrote:"An essential component of effective deterrence, not merely of nuclear weapons but of any large scale, high intensity conflict, is the ability to escalate to nuclear exchanges. Without the opportunity of first strike, a defensive posture between two nations with, say, a wide land border, is at the mercy of the more powerful military force. That is to say that there is no reason not to engage in high intensity conflict when victory is highly indicated when the weaker power cannot escalate to a nuclear exchange.

"Incentivizing conflict is never sound policy. While dangerous, nuclear weaponry has a net effect of disincentivizing high intensity industrialized warfare. I believe we can find a different element of nuclear exchanges to regulate that does not detract from their strategic peacekeeping value."

OOC- I may have read something wrong, but this does reserve the right to respond to any attack at all, not just nuclear strikes, with nukes. The only actual restrictions on the use in the proposal is that you can't nuke someone who hasn't attacked you at all. What I want to see is less mutual destruction, but keeping the threat of it, making nations less likely to attack each other. Since non-members can't be regulated, this resolution reserves the right to nuke non-members without regulations.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Jedinsto
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Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Sun Feb 07, 2021 6:42 am

And, for real this time, this act will be submitted tomorrow.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Jedinsto
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Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 08, 2021 7:24 am

Submitted
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James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Imperium Anglorum
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Posts: 10155
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:32 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:"An essential component of effective deterrence, not merely of nuclear weapons but of any large scale, high intensity conflict, is the ability to escalate to nuclear exchanges. Without the opportunity of first strike, a defensive posture between two nations with, say, a wide land border, is at the mercy of the more powerful military force. That is to say that there is no reason not to engage in high intensity conflict when victory is highly indicated when the weaker power cannot escalate to a nuclear exchange.

"Incentivizing conflict is never sound policy. While dangerous, nuclear weaponry has a net effect of disincentivizing high intensity industrialized warfare. I believe we can find a different element of nuclear exchanges to regulate that does not detract from their strategic peacekeeping value."

OOC- I may have read something wrong, but this does reserve the right to respond to any attack at all, not just nuclear strikes, with nukes. The only actual restrictions on the use in the proposal is that you can't nuke someone who hasn't attacked you at all. What I want to see is less mutual destruction, but keeping the threat of it, making nations less likely to attack each other. Since non-members can't be regulated, this resolution reserves the right to nuke non-members without regulations.

Wouldn't that be the exact same standard – 'to use [nuclear weapons] in the case that they are attacked by hostile forces' – as that in Safeguarding Nuclear Materials?

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:04 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Jedinsto wrote:OOC- I may have read something wrong, but this does reserve the right to respond to any attack at all, not just nuclear strikes, with nukes. The only actual restrictions on the use in the proposal is that you can't nuke someone who hasn't attacked you at all. What I want to see is less mutual destruction, but keeping the threat of it, making nations less likely to attack each other. Since non-members can't be regulated, this resolution reserves the right to nuke non-members without regulations.

Wouldn't that be the exact same standard – 'to use [nuclear weapons] in the case that they are attacked by hostile forces' – as that in Safeguarding Nuclear Materials?

Yes, but that resolution didn't ban anything, it just prevented banning responding to an attack from hostile forces. I had to work around the blocker, and ban what I could, which means not banning retaliation.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:06 am

Keep it up, delegates, we're half way to quorum!
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James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Feb 09, 2021 11:27 am

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:13 pm

Jedinsto wrote:Keep it up, delegates, we're half way to quorum!

It's not going to pass even if it gets to vote. I do hope you are fully prepared for that.

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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 09, 2021 6:40 pm

I have a replacement ready to go in case this doesn't reach quorum, thoughts? Suggestions?
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Greater Cesnica
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Posts: 6318
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Opposed due to Article 3.
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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:55 pm

Alright, I'll remove clause 3, so there's no blocker, but not take any action against usage on non-members.
Last edited by Jedinsto on Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Jedinsto
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Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:32 pm

I have made the decision to withdraw the submission and return to drafting.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Greater Cesnica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6318
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:34 pm

Jedinsto wrote:I have made the decision to withdraw the submission and return to drafting.

Good call.
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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:08 am

For anyone who was confused, this proposal has not been scrapped, it was only withdrawn so I could make more changes. Are there any more thoughts on this?
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:42 pm

What's the purpose of Article 2(b)? I find that it greatly reduces the threshold required to use nuclear weapons.
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Atheris
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Founded: Oct 05, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Atheris » Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:48 pm

"Alright. For starters, I'm not a national, yeah? I took a wrong turn at the Edge of Creation and ended up in this dump instead of the pub. But I enjoy the multiverse, especially you guys. Quite fond of you. Anyways; clause 2b. Let's say I'm in charge of, say, a rather large nation and a nation on a similar power level but without nuclear weapons attempts to start a war with me. What's stopping me from just deleting their entire country? That's a rather stupid idea."

OOC: Opposed for 2b.
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Jedinsto
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Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:15 pm

Atheris wrote:"Alright. For starters, I'm not a national, yeah? I took a wrong turn at the Edge of Creation and ended up in this dump instead of the pub. But I enjoy the multiverse, especially you guys. Quite fond of you. Anyways; clause 2b. Let's say I'm in charge of, say, a rather large nation and a nation on a similar power level but without nuclear weapons attempts to start a war with me. What's stopping me from just deleting their entire country? That's a rather stupid idea."

OOC: Opposed for 2b.

True, something I overlooked. (fixed)
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Greater Cesnica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6318
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:31 pm

Much better now!
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Ardiveds
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Founded: Feb 28, 2018
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Postby Ardiveds » Mon Feb 15, 2021 11:51 pm

"So are we back to regulating nukes against those who themselves can't be regulated?"
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:04 am

Ardiveds wrote:"So are we back to regulating nukes against those who themselves can't be regulated?"

"Yep." replies Ambassador McCooley.
Alan Moore wrote:People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
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Jedinsto
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Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:29 am

Ardiveds wrote:"So are we back to regulating nukes against those who themselves can't be regulated?"

OOC: The fact that non-members can't be regulated was legitimate enough to make that compromise, but I always wanted to regulate them, I am fairly strongly opposed to nukes. Turns out, the compromise was enough of a deterrent to make the proposal fail.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Ardiveds
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 414
Founded: Feb 28, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ardiveds » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:42 am

Jedinsto wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:"So are we back to regulating nukes against those who themselves can't be regulated?"

OOC: The fact that non-members can't be regulated was legitimate enough to make that compromise, but I always wanted to regulate them, I am fairly strongly opposed to nukes. Turns out, the compromise was enough of a deterrent to make the proposal fail.

OOC: I agree. But the reality remains that non-members are outside WA law. Well if you can get a total ban on first strike to pass, good for you, but I'm not holding my breath.
Greater Cesnica wrote:
Ardiveds wrote:"So are we back to regulating nukes against those who themselves can't be regulated?"

"Yep." replies Ambassador McCooley.

"In that case, we shall have to withdraw our support for this proposal once more."
If the ambassador acts like an ambassador, it's probably Delegate Arthur.
If he acts like an edgy teen, it's probably definitely Delegate Jim.... it's always Jim

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Greater Cesnica
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6318
Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:31 am

Ardiveds wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:"Yep." replies Ambassador McCooley.

"In that case, we shall have to withdraw our support for this proposal once more."

"Marvelous." Ambassador McCooley says, smirking.
Alan Moore wrote:People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
Authorship Dispatch
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Jedinsto
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:22 pm

Does anyone have further thoughts/suggestions?
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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Jedinsto
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 102
Founded: Nov 12, 2020
Corporate Bordello

Postby Jedinsto » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:32 am

I'm officially moving this to last call. I plan to submit on Tuesday as long as the queue stays empty.
My proposal
James DuBois
Capitalism, centrism, abortion, environment, civil rights
Communism, socialism, nukes, fascism, Trump

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