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[PASSED] Whistleblower Protection Act

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Hulldom
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Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hulldom » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:41 pm

Once again, edits. Worked on some changes pursuant to Bananaistan's quibbles.
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:34 pm

Hulldom wrote:This proposal explicitly does not mention such. It mentions the acceptable categories for publication in clauses 2 and 5.

OOC: ...are we looking at the same draft? The one visible in OP just lists in clause 2 some things spies are not allowed to publish, instead of specifying the ones the spies are allowed to publish. If you did the latter, then the problem didn't exist. Doing the former means anything else, such as industrial secrets, they are allowed to target.

And clause 5 doesn't say anything about what the spies are not allowed to publish but rather what nations and businesses are not allowed to hold them responsible for.

If it's hard to understand the difference, imagine a table laden with all kinds of food items. Clause 2 says the spies are not allowed to take the fruit cake or the onion rings. That means they're allowed to take whatever else they want. And clause 5 says nations and businesses can't prosecute the spies as thiefs for taking chicken nuggets or giving them to a friend to eat (and not allowed to prosecute the recipient either), even if it means the nations and businesses had to pay for the chicken nuggets.

If there was a clause saying the spies could only publish info that directly pertains to the illegalities they want to out (in the food reference, only allowed to take food items that are on yellow plates), then the issue wouldn't exist. The only thing in addition to the illegal activity proof that the proposal really talks about, is personally identifying information.

A single clause at the end saying something like "The protections afforded by this resolution do not apply to the publishing of any other information not directly related to the illegal activity" would solve the problem.

Other than that, clause 4 current wording seems to imply the crime victim is subject to WA law, rather than the information to be published.
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Hulldom
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Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hulldom » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:47 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Hulldom wrote:This proposal explicitly does not mention such. It mentions the acceptable categories for publication in clauses 2 and 5.

OOC: ...are we looking at the same draft? The one visible in OP just lists in clause 2 some things spies are not allowed to publish, instead of specifying the ones the spies are allowed to publish. If you did the latter, then the problem didn't exist. Doing the former means anything else, such as industrial secrets, they are allowed to target.

And clause 5 doesn't say anything about what the spies are not allowed to publish but rather what nations and businesses are not allowed to hold them responsible for.

If it's hard to understand the difference, imagine a table laden with all kinds of food items. Clause 2 says the spies are not allowed to take the fruit cake or the onion rings. That means they're allowed to take whatever else they want. And clause 5 says nations and businesses can't prosecute the spies as thiefs for taking chicken nuggets or giving them to a friend to eat (and not allowed to prosecute the recipient either), even if it means the nations and businesses had to pay for the chicken nuggets.

If there was a clause saying the spies could only publish info that directly pertains to the illegalities they want to out (in the food reference, only allowed to take food items that are on yellow plates), then the issue wouldn't exist. The only thing in addition to the illegal activity proof that the proposal really talks about, is personally identifying information.

A single clause at the end saying something like "The protections afforded by this resolution do not apply to the publishing of any other information not directly related to the illegal activity" would solve the problem.

Other than that, clause 4 current wording seems to imply the crime victim is subject to WA law, rather than the information to be published.

I'm going to make one brief response to this: you are probably right re: clause 4, will re-word it. As for the other complaint, I don't see the merit in it. This proposal has nothing to do with the publication of trade secrets and I'm not about to overextend it to that point, if you'd like more comprehensive work on that subject, I would strongly urge you to consider writing said legislation yourself.
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Boston Castle
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Founded: Aug 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Boston Castle » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:59 pm

Should also note that contrary to my original plan, this will be submitted on <this> nation. Plan is to submit on Friday.
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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:19 pm

Looks good to me!
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Hulldom
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Hulldom » Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:10 pm

This has been submitted on Boston Castle as notified earlier (see sig if you need to know the exact relation).
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Araraukar
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:45 pm

Hulldom wrote:This proposal has nothing to do with the publication of trade secrets and I'm not about to overextend it to that point, if you'd like more comprehensive work on that subject, I would strongly urge you to consider writing said legislation yourself.

OOC: What you want your proposal to be about, and what its wording actually says, can be two very different things. But if you are of the opinion that it would NOT be okay to publish trade secrets or any other kinds of not-open-to-public data that has no direct relevance to the illegal activity the spy whistleblower is blowing the cover of, then I'll be able to refer to you saying so, if it comes up in the future.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Coronavirus related. This too. And this. These are all jokes. This isn't. This is, again, but it's also the last one.
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Boston Castle
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Founded: Aug 21, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Boston Castle » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:02 pm

Regardless of what happens when it hits the floor on Wednesday, l am immensely grateful for the outpouring of Delegate support for this hitting the floor.

[As a side note, wonder what the record for approvals is?]
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:06 am

Boston Castle wrote:Regardless of what happens when it hits the floor on Wednesday, l am immensely grateful for the outpouring of Delegate support for this hitting the floor.

[As a side note, wonder what the record for approvals is?]

At least 323 - although that proposal was approved by 13.3% of delegates while WPA has been approved by 10.5% of delegates.

Support.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greater Cesnica
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Founded: Mar 30, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:05 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:Regardless of what happens when it hits the floor on Wednesday, l am immensely grateful for the outpouring of Delegate support for this hitting the floor.

[As a side note, wonder what the record for approvals is?]

At least 323 - although that proposal was approved by 13.3% of delegates while WPA has been approved by 10.5% of delegates.

Support.

That is a lot of approvals.
Alan Moore wrote:People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
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Ardiveds
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Founded: Feb 28, 2018
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Postby Ardiveds » Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:49 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Boston Castle wrote:Regardless of what happens when it hits the floor on Wednesday, l am immensely grateful for the outpouring of Delegate support for this hitting the floor.

[As a side note, wonder what the record for approvals is?]

At least 323 - although that proposal was approved by 13.3% of delegates while WPA has been approved by 10.5% of delegates.

Support.

OOC: How on earth is GA 10 still a thing when so many people approved an anti-nuke proposal back then?
Last edited by Ardiveds on Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinhampton
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Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:00 am

At vote, and proud to have cast the first vote FOR this resolution.
The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP); Alexander Smith, WA Delegate-Ambassador

Authorships & co-authorships: SC#250, SC#251, Issue #1115, SC#267, GA#484, GA#491, GA#533, GA#540
Other achievements: Cup of Harmony 73 champions; -45 Darkspawn Kill Points; current WA Delegate of Auctor; "Tinhampton? the man's literally god"
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:42 am

I can't support this proposal.

Privacy is an important right. People who work for the government have privacy rights in the same way normal citizens do. The vast majority of people who work for the government, being inferior officers thereof, take salaries and live peacefully. The provision in section 4, which indemnifies media outlets from punishment for 'the dissemination of financial information of a government official', is at best the World Assembly saying that 'if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide'. At worst, it opens government workers to identity theft and harassment. Privacy rights are sometimes overridden by other important public interests. This should be judged on a case-by-case basis, not on blanket legislation which makes government workers' finances public knowledge.

Section 3 also is poorly written. Depending on how it could be read, it prohibits the media from publishing a person's personally identifying information (such as names) unless that person is party to a crime committed by a government official. This is a substantial limit on the freedom of the press: media outlets would no longer be able to report on crimes committed entirely by private individuals and unconnected to government action. This not only harms press freedom, but also the ability of the press to report on private misdeeds, meaning more unethical behaviour goes unreported, harming society writ large.

Or it might read that both whistleblowers and media outlets need publish to take such an action, which doesn't make sense, as whistleblowers do not publish: media outlets do. This dual-party interpretation then makes the provision more-or-less entirely inapplicable because whistleblowers are not publishers. The first interpretation (and its consequent impacts on press freedom) should therefore be preferred to one which effectively omits the entire clause.

Moreover, section 6(a)'s provision which bars seeking legal recourse prohibits the starting of a defamation lawsuit unless the statement was 'proven to be demonstrably false'. Note that 'proven' is in the past tense. Such a bar in effect closes off all recourse: to have something proven false in a court of law, it must first be proved before a judge, which cannot happen because 'seek[ing] legal recourse' is prohibited. Even governments have a right not to be lied about, destroying that right cannot be what was intended.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The Spook Who Sat By The Door
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[AT VOTE] Whistleblower Protection Act

Postby The Spook Who Sat By The Door » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:13 pm

The Whistleblower Protection Act has a confusing provision for the imprisonment of whistleblowers. Very American. Bravo!
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Scalizagasti
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Postby Scalizagasti » Wed Feb 17, 2021 8:15 pm

The United Regions Alliance recommends that nations vote for this proposal. During internal voting, 12 regions voted in favour of this resolution, 1 voted against, and 1 abstained.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1507488
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Enjuku
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Enjuku » Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:16 pm

Enjuku, considering the importance of a nation-state's right to privacy and to protect its national security, will be voting AGAINST this resolution.

We are hopeful in the future that the WA will consider that some nations should reserve the right to prioritize the safety of its people over the safety of dangerous and divisive rhetoric. Freedom of speech is a prized right in Enjuku, and we stand with the spirit of this resolution. However, as the saying of "do no shout fire in a movie theater" makes common sense, it should also be common sense that the voice of one disgruntled person, trusted at-glance, should not unnecessarily topple the livelihoods of innocent people or organizations. Speech, as with other activities, can be weaponized, and thus should be reasonably regulated. And governments have a duty to protect their citizens from such things.

For these reasons, our delegation reiterates a vote of AGAINST on this resolution. Thank you.

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Vikanias
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Founded: May 01, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vikanias » Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 pm

This is the first time in all my time playing NS that i am gonna abstain
Last edited by Vikanias on Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Asianite
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Founded: Dec 24, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Asianite » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:01 pm

Asianite cannot get behind section 5d. Although we approve of all other provisions of the proposal, we fear section 5d imposes a great restraint on the right to free speech, which includes the right to not speak at all. Asianite will vote against for that sole reason.
Last edited by Asianite on Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hanaken
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Founded: Jan 12, 2021
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Hanaken » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:05 pm

Personally, I think the Whistleblower Protection Act is a great idea. However, I agree with Asanite. Section 5d is by far the resolution's biggest failing point. Regrettably, the nations of Elysias have concerns when it comes to exposing information pertaining to National Security, and as such have asked me to vote against this resolution. Hanaken will vote no, but would support revising section 5d in the future.

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Texkentuck
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Texkentuck doesn't support whistleblowers

Postby Texkentuck » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:27 pm

If we were in the WA we would vote against this because we have faith in our justice system of the high courts of Texkentuck of which this WA if votes for this undermines our justice system in protecting those who bring attention to departments going against the law of the land or undermining the people.


Ambassador-
General General Michail Vladimir Abramov- General of Texkentuck Space Division
Last edited by Texkentuck on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Texkentuck
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Postby Texkentuck » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:28 pm

Hanaken wrote:Personally, I think the Whistleblower Protection Act is a great idea. However, I agree with Asanite. Section 5d is by far the resolution's biggest failing point. Regrettably, the nations of Elysias have concerns when it comes to exposing information pertaining to National Security, and as such have asked me to vote against this resolution. Hanaken will vote no, but would support revising section 5d in the future.



Wonderfully stated.

General Michail Vladimir Abramov- General of Texkentuck Space Division

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Liber Operarios
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Founded: Nov 04, 2020
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Liber Operarios » Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:39 pm

Liber Operarios will be voting in favor of this resolution. However, we still feel it does not go far enough. While the concerns that are addressed in section 2 are supposed to prevent threats to so-called "national security," the government of Liber Operarios believes withholding information from the populace makes the state above its people and not the arm of them. If a government attempts to hide information, then how can the people know it is working for them?

While we believe any progress is good progress, there is still work that needs to be done. We hope that in the future these issues may be addressed in future legislation.

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Texkentuck
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Founded: Jan 17, 2021
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Postby Texkentuck » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:56 pm

Liber Operarios wrote:Liber Operarios will be voting in favor of this resolution. However, we still feel it does not go far enough. While the concerns that are addressed in section 2 are supposed to prevent threats to so-called "national security," the government of Liber Operarios believes withholding information from the populace makes the state above its people and not the arm of them. If a government attempts to hide information, then how can the people know it is working for them?

While we believe any progress is good progress, there is still work that needs to be done. We hope that in the future these issues may be addressed in future legislation.



The parliament of Texkentuck Federation clearly sees this is true for your nations stance because your political freedoms are widely abused in the name of civil rights. This WA's proposals are sopposed to better nations as a whole. Your nation should take a good look into political freedom. For your governments over reach it's never good enough. We need to see proposals that benefit each nation positively. If this passes how will this resolution affect your nation. It clearly won't. Your nation already has such policies. We need more political freedom type proposals. How far will this WA turn every nation into a civil rights theocracy in the name of ruining political freedom?.

General Michail Vladimir Abramov- General of Texkentuck Space Division

Ambassador to the WA on behalf of Texkentuck Monarch Republic Federation
Last edited by Texkentuck on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Texkentuck
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Postby Texkentuck » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:07 pm

Enjuku wrote:Enjuku, considering the importance of a nation-state's right to privacy and to protect its national security, will be voting AGAINST this resolution.

We are hopeful in the future that the WA will consider that some nations should reserve the right to prioritize the safety of its people over the safety of dangerous and divisive rhetoric. Freedom of speech is a prized right in Enjuku, and we stand with the spirit of this resolution. However, as the saying of "do no shout fire in a movie theater" makes common sense, it should also be common sense that the voice of one disgruntled person, trusted at-glance, should not unnecessarily topple the livelihoods of innocent people or organizations. Speech, as with other activities, can be weaponized, and thus should be reasonably regulated. And governments have a duty to protect their citizens from such things.

For these reasons, our delegation reiterates a vote of AGAINST on this resolution. Thank you.



Well said and this is why most citizens of Texkentuck feel this should not be voted for because this is going to ruin organizations and build a wall on political freedom.

Gen. Abromov
Space Division Commander
Ambassador to the WA on behalf of Texkentuck Monarch Republic Federation

The TMRF doesn't support this resolution and proudly builds a wall to the legislated proposals that will clearly destroy political freedoms. We are not members of the WA at the current moment but we will state what must be stated for nations who proudly stand in accord and watch their sovereignty go down the tube.
Last edited by Texkentuck on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Texkentuck
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Founded: Jan 17, 2021
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Postby Texkentuck » Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:17 pm

Imperium Anglorum wrote:I can't support this proposal.

Privacy is an important right. People who work for the government have privacy rights in the same way normal citizens do. The vast majority of people who work for the government, being inferior officers thereof, take salaries and live peacefully. The provision in section 4, which indemnifies media outlets from punishment for 'the dissemination of financial information of a government official', is at best the World Assembly saying that 'if you have nothing to fear, you have nothing to hide'. At worst, it opens government workers to identity theft and harassment. Privacy rights are sometimes overridden by other important public interests. This should be judged on a case-by-case basis, not on blanket legislation which makes government workers' finances public knowledge.

Section 3 also is poorly written. Depending on how it could be read, it prohibits the media from publishing a person's personally identifying information (such as names) unless that person is party to a crime committed by a government official. This is a substantial limit on the freedom of the press: media outlets would no longer be able to report on crimes committed entirely by private individuals and unconnected to government action. This not only harms press freedom, but also the ability of the press to report on private misdeeds, meaning more unethical behaviour goes unreported, harming society writ large.

Or it might read that both whistleblowers and media outlets need publish to take such an action, which doesn't make sense, as whistleblowers do not publish: media outlets do. This dual-party interpretation then makes the provision more-or-less entirely inapplicable because whistleblowers are not publishers. The first interpretation (and its consequent impacts on press freedom) should therefore be preferred to one which effectively omits the entire clause.

Moreover, section 6(a)'s provision which bars seeking legal recourse prohibits the starting of a defamation lawsuit unless the statement was 'proven to be demonstrably false'. Note that 'proven' is in the past tense. Such a bar in effect closes off all recourse: to have something proven false in a court of law, it must first be proved before a judge, which cannot happen because 'seek[ing] legal recourse' is prohibited. Even governments have a right not to be lied about, destroying that right cannot be what was intended.



In the nation of Texkentuck Monarch Republic Federation government officials do have the same right to privacy as the people but they are held to a higher standard to use the courts and not bring publicity or embarrassment to our nation. Government officials who do are made to leave our country and lose citizenship. The WA once again would pass over our justice system in Texkentuck just as the whistle-blowers in our nation. Too much WA overreach and this is one of some reasons Texkentuck Monarch Federation has left the World Assembly. This proposal doesn't assist the governments of the World in insuring no-violations. The proposals should be ones that take on the issues that make Whistle-blowers. This will make our nations less politically free and whole heatedly harbor traders.
Last edited by Texkentuck on Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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