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[DEFEATED] Repeal: "Death Penalty Ban"

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

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The Candy Of Bottles
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Founded: Jan 01, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Candy Of Bottles » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:03 pm

Welp, looks like some big delegates decided to stomp this. Highly unfortunate, especially in combination with the lemming effect.
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Greater Cesnica
Negotiator
 
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:04 pm

The Candy Of Bottles wrote:Welp, looks like some big delegates decided to stomp this. Highly unfortunate, especially in combination with the lemming effect.

Can you give me compelling arguments for the death penalty? Also, if you didn't want the big delegates to stomp it, you should have campaigned. Reached out.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Socialist Republik von Rhein
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Socialist Republik von Rhein » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:14 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
The Candy Of Bottles wrote:Welp, looks like some big delegates decided to stomp this. Highly unfortunate, especially in combination with the lemming effect.

Can you give me compelling arguments for the death penalty? Also, if you didn't want the big delegates to stomp it, you should have campaigned. Reached out.

I'm not the delegate you were asking, but I might add that the death penalty quite simply isn't an international issue. I'm deeply concerned that the WA as a whole focuses more on perceived issues as pertaining to liberalistic ideology instead of things that benefit the entire WA and don't force the hand nationstates who do not pertain to the ideology inherent within many of the resolutions passed (such as the SRR).
Last edited by Socialist Republik von Rhein on Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:17 pm

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Can you give me compelling arguments for the death penalty? Also, if you didn't want the big delegates to stomp it, you should have campaigned. Reached out.

but I might add that the death penalty quite simply isn't an international issue.

Why not?

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Socialist Republik von Rhein
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Socialist Republik von Rhein » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:18 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:but I might add that the death penalty quite simply isn't an international issue.

Why not?

It's a highly subjective and case-by-case issue which should not be completely banned.

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:20 pm

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Why not?

It's a highly subjective and case-by-case issue which should not be completely banned.

I don't think so. The risk of executing innocents is a sufficient reason to warrant international attention. It is sufficient to warrant a total ban based on that.
Last edited by Greater Cesnica on Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Socialist Republik von Rhein
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Socialist Republik von Rhein » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:It's a highly subjective and case-by-case issue which should not be completely banned.

I don't think so. The risk of executing innocents is a sufficient reason to warrant international attention. It is sufficient to warrant a total ban based on that.

Is there not a risk in life sentencing without chance of parole? The risk inherent within is also highly dependent on the judicial system within each nation.

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Greater Cesnica
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Anarchy

Postby Greater Cesnica » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:24 pm

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:I don't think so. The risk of executing innocents is a sufficient reason to warrant international attention. It is sufficient to warrant a total ban based on that.

Is there not a risk in life sentencing without chance of parole? The risk inherent within is also highly dependent on the judicial system within each nation.

The difference is that a life sentence can be reversed generally. You can't bring back a wrongfully executed person from the dead.

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Astrobolt
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Astrobolt » Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:58 pm

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:I'm not the delegate you were asking, but I might add that the death penalty quite simply isn't an international issue.


OOC: As far as I'm concerned, anything pertaining to civil rights is an international issue. The death penalty is a violation of an individual's civil rights.
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Note: All views expressed are solely my own, and don't represent any region, organization or group unless stated otherwise.

For a detailed list of positions, and other things of note, read the dispatch here: https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1428456

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Gatchina
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Gatchina » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:00 pm

We fully support this repeal
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Scalizagasti
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Scalizagasti » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:30 pm

The United Regions Alliance recommends voting for this repeal. During internal voting, 11 member regions supported the resolution, 1 opposed, and 1 abstained. For more detailed reasoning, including statements by URA citizens on this resolution, see the dispatch below.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1501690
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Texkentuck
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Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:53 am

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:I, and both the public and military judicial committees of the SRR *Strongly* decry the banning of the death penalty. There are quite simply some crimes as to which the guilty party can not be allowed to live. During the 1945 Socialist Revolution, several of the highest members of the NSDAP were summarily executed for crimes against humanity in the SRR. People like Hermann Goering. People like Martin Bormann, who headed the NSDAP. These people did not deserve a lengthy jail sentence, where they could sit in silent contemplation of their crimes. The SRR fully supports the repeal of this bill.




I hear your great argument and would like to agree because in my nation we have a history of doing the same here's an article speaking of such a case. Please read if you have time. We must stay the course and vote against the Repeal of the Death Penalty and I ask nations of the WA to please listen...............................

=========One of the Presidents aides walks up to the table of the Socialist Republik von Rhein and hands you respectfully our history from an old Obit and Pres. Schirkophf reads the history allowed to the World Assembly.=====================================================================================

Obituary: The Texkentuck Newsweek The Motherland- The all spin zone-it's fair-it's bull Shiest-It's real-It's the motherland News
Guy Reds family was a family of vikings who joined in the crusade with the wild group of Nomads who earned the name Texkentuck which means Catholic crusader in the old tung of the nomads. His family was of lower class society. Guy Red's father was put to death do to revolutionary ideals amongst farmers to keep redistribution in place. Guy Red joined the Texkentuck early days of the militia to fight in the small very violent scuffles with foreign invaders who've done their best to destroy Texkentuck early civilization. He was known in his time for expressing that it was the foreigners who destroyed the farms and not the people in order to end redistribution and move more towards a capitalistic society. When capitalism took root he spread this message that capitalism was good but need to go back to how things were. Regardless of his preaching in bars and entering politics Guy Red owned 10 of the largest farms and became a billionaire who spoke to the lower class and made them believe he was of their social class. Very much so his words were of the lower class but his buisness was of dealing in crooked political behavior that many believe this day to true but he will be forever remembered as a great viking for social justice. Still many conservatives and members of the the Schirkophf family spread the message that yes half of what he did was very good for Texkentuck such as his giving to the poor his wealth but his politics will lead to years of people believing parliament should run the government. Out of the hands of the Schirkophf family Parliament will take on official presidential dutys. Their will be viewing all day in the square. At an unclassified time his caucus in a golden casket will be carried to the Bear Claw Bar in North Mountain for one last private drinking with regular bar patrons and a small send off which can be viewed from the distance over Texkentuck Lake. Their will be a 33 Tank Canon salute over the lake and a 33 gun salute followed by a symbolic viking horn blow and his Axe will be on display and then moved to the capital. The Axe has legend it was passed down to him through his family from Eric The Red. The nation at this time will pass his presidential power to parliament. Funeral will be a viking boat send off on March 4, 1980 at 11:00PM. his body will be paraded through the streets after the morning Texkentuck Military Parade. At the right time parliament will discuss the election at a future time. During the current raids politicians have decided that parliament will run the government under strict military emergency decree.
=============================================================================================================
Pres. Schirkophf states when the Schirkophf family came to power in the 21st century the crooked politicians were jailed and held on trial and sent away with loss of citizenship and assets ceased. One politician was the most guilty but truly insane and is pardoned but retires assets to the state and lives with his family where he will someday leave our world in peace. He will have to answer on his judgement day for his crooked buisness dealings and being the one to constantly on purpose not want to hold any elections for parliment that were fair or have an elected President. We are not living in the days of old and we live up to the standard of what we vote in favor for on this World Assembly.

================Schirkophf lights a cigar then states-===================
The president proclaims to the WA
Texkentuck doesn't live in the days of old. We are a strong nation with an iron fist filled with heart moving forward with the pursuit of justice. We remember we ared called to protect life, practice mercy, and reject vengeance.

Pres. Bram W. Schirkophf
Last edited by Texkentuck on Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:21 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Texkentuck
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Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

I must state again----------

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:24 am

Texkentuck doesn't live in the days of old. We are a strong nation with an iron fist filled with heart moving forward with the pursuit of justice. We remember we ared called to protect life, practice mercy, and reject vengeance.


Pres. Bram W. Schirkophf

===The President's staff :clap:
Texkentuck News Stations are present and this is also going to make headlines in Texkentuck Federation.========

====The president continues to address the World Assembly====

Also to be fair we must pass a proposal for nations to afford a good prison system that keeps people alive.

It must be something economic that benefits the rich and the poor....

Thank you

We vote to reject the Repeal of the Death Penalty because we must stay the course.......................................
======The President's staff and news crew/journalists present- :clap:==========
Last edited by Texkentuck on Sat Feb 06, 2021 1:30 am, edited 4 times in total.

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ArenaC
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Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby ArenaC » Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:58 am

The Commonwealth of ArenaC is in full support of this repeal.
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my (WA) views do not represent my region and should never be interpreted as such. get angry at me. not the region. just me. ...of course if it involves me.

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ArenaC
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Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby ArenaC » Sat Feb 06, 2021 7:00 am

Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:
Greater Cesnica wrote:Why not?

It's a highly subjective and case-by-case issue which should not be completely banned.

This is true. It also basically gives WA nations no freedom as to if they COULD carry out death penalties without leaving the WA and losing representation.

I didn't vote for the death penalty ban. Nor should you.
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Velosia
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Founded: Nov 29, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Velosia » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:00 am

The Kingdom of Velosia is voting FOR the proposed repeal.

While we are firmly opposed to the usage of capital punishment in most cases, it is of the opinion of both His Majesty's Government and the majority of the people of Velosia that the death penalty should be reserved for acts of regicide (defined as applying to either a reigning monarch or incumbent prime minister), the most heinous offence that can be committed under Velosian law.

Since time immemorial, public execution by hanging has served as the traditional method by which justice is dispensed for such a crime. Comprehensive national opinion polling conducted at irregular intervals over the last few decades has shown sustained majority support for the return of the death penalty for the crime of regicide.

While the specificity may seem surprising, especially considering most Velosians do not support the application of capital punishment for any other crime, the reason is quite simple. The monarchy, and His Majesty personally, remains extremely popular in Velosia. However, under current WA rules, it has has been impossible for the Councils of the Realm to listen to the will of the people on this matter.

We implore our fellow members to carefully consider specific cases such as these when it comes to making their decision.
.
NATION | OVERVIEW | ANTHEM
System: Elective constitutional monarchy, parliamentary democracy
Legislature: Councils of the Realm, bicameral
Upper: Council of Electors
Lower: Council of Aldermen

Head of State: Tohmas IX, King
Head of Government: Alfred Harding, Prime Minister
Capital (and largest city): Ethalstad
.
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Texkentuck
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Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

SUBJECTIVE IN CASE BY CASE ISSUE

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 5:57 pm

ArenaC wrote:
Socialist Republik von Rhein wrote:It's a highly subjective and case-by-case issue which should not be completely banned.

This is true. It also basically gives WA nations no freedom as to if they COULD carry out death penalties without leaving the WA and losing representation.

I didn't vote for the death penalty ban. Nor should you.[/quot

That's a heck of a statement. I voted against the dealth penalty and you should too. Schirkophf has his one of his cabinet members bring you a box of Texkentuck cigars then states............................

That's irrelevant. Does your nation have a prison....Lock them up..... Also in the case of capital punishment who gets satisfaction from it. Society and the victims but what about their families?! Also in our nations how do we know every nations executions are all just based on their justice system?. We don't know if every justice system for capital punishment is just. I encourage nations to work on a proposal that is economically good for the rich and poor.

As I've stated before

Texkentuck doesn't live in the days of old. Nor should the WA! We are a strong nations with an iron fist filled with heart moving forward with the pursuit of justice. We remember we are called to protect life, practice mercy, and reject vengeance. Remember WA we are moving forward in Justice........ not vengeance............

===President Schirkophf takes a drink of Texkentuck Booze and smokes his cigar very chill==========
Last edited by Texkentuck on Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Texkentuck
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Posts: 167
Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:08 pm

Velosia wrote:The Kingdom of Velosia is voting FOR the proposed repeal.

While we are firmly opposed to the usage of capital punishment in most cases, it is of the opinion of both His Majesty's Government and the majority of the people of Velosia that the death penalty should be reserved for acts of regicide (defined as applying to either a reigning monarch or incumbent prime minister), the most heinous offence that can be committed under Velosian law.

Since time immemorial, public execution by hanging has served as the traditional method by which justice is dispensed for such a crime. Comprehensive national opinion polling conducted at irregular intervals over the last few decades has shown sustained majority support for the return of the death penalty for the crime of regicide.

While the specificity may seem surprising, especially considering most Velosians do not support the application of capital punishment for any other crime, the reason is quite simple. The monarchy, and His Majesty personally, remains extremely popular in Velosia. However, under current WA rules, it has has been impossible for the Councils of the Realm to listen to the will of the people on this matter.

We implore our fellow members to carefully consider specific cases such as these when it comes to making their decision.


Here have a box of Texkentuck cigars....................Someone from the Schirkophf security detail brings you an expensive box of cigars from Texkentuck............

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United States of Americanas
Envoy
 
Posts: 302
Founded: Jan 23, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby United States of Americanas » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:11 pm

Wait so this is a repeal without a replacement? *chuckles* let me just slide this off my desk into the garbage.
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Xeknos
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Posts: 43
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Xeknos » Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:16 pm

Strong against. We will also never understand the obsession certain nations have with murdering their own people.
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Texkentuck
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Posts: 167
Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:12 pm

United States of Americanas wrote:Wait so this is a repeal without a replacement? *chuckles* let me just slide this off my desk into the garbage.


Better write that replacement but will it pass?.... Thankfully this repeal looks to pass. I believe the best way to move forward is to have a proposal for something economic that will help the nations prison systems and close the inequality gap between the rich and poor. I won't vote for something that is straight out communist but will vote for a sound policy in which nations citizens who make over 150,000 from every nation will lose only 20,000 in gains that will go towards workers and close the inequality gap. The poor will always be amongst society. Would like to see a proposal for the American Worker in my nation. I also believe their should be something in the next proposal that will benefit the rich too. Perhaps in the next proposal for those who make over 150,000 nations with the policy of a high tax with a high tax over 50% w will be forced into taking a tax of only 50%. This will improve our income wealth gap.

That's the proposal I would like to see in which no one wins based on their view but we slightly close the wealth gap.

Pres. Bram Walt Schirkophf
Last edited by Texkentuck on Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Texkentuck
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Posts: 167
Founded: Jan 17, 2021
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Texkentuck » Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:23 pm

would like to see low income in my nation make atleast over 20,000 TexkMarks. That's our currency.

At the moment the richest 10% of citizens earning 159,772 per year while the poor average 15,622, a ratio of 10.2 to 1. In my nation this is unacceptable. We need to keep taxes low but at the same time this WA's responsibility is to make our nations wealthier and a place to live for our citizens. If poors average go up in the long run they may make more do to the gap being closed and being able to receive a stimulus from all of our nations by taking atleast 10,000 from the richest 10%. The rich will benefit because in passing a proposal as such we must add in their a tax cut in the name of closing the wealth gap world wide. In the long run we will all have wealthier nations. Everyone will be more rich and rich won't ever get to big and more powerful than our governments. Texkentuck has a government because we believe in law and order and we believe in protecting the rights of land owners. If we fail to do this then their is no point to our government other than to dictate.
Last edited by Texkentuck on Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Refrigerator Resurrection
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Posts: 8
Founded: Oct 22, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Refrigerator Resurrection » Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:35 pm

I voted against the ban, but I am voting against the repeal as well.

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Pchelionia
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: May 25, 2020
Capitalist Paradise

Vote against repealing death penalty ban

Postby Pchelionia » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:38 am

The ban on death penalty is a good thing—a corpse can’t acknowledge own mistakes and become better.

Vote AGAINST repealing death penalty ban

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Imperium Anglorum
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Posts: 10393
Founded: Aug 26, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:10 am

Dalmyria wrote:
Bananaistan wrote:OOC: The further concerned clause. How exactly does the supposed loophole lead to "dilution of fair trial standards"?

OOC: Because it would happen under military law, even if the increase in these cases is small. A defendant tried by a military tribunal is much less likely to find the process fair than being tried by a jury with an appeals process to fall back on

GA 443 requires that executions occur after appeals are exhausted and that the trial record be reviewed – a de facto automatic appeal – by the Capital Cases Division before receiving a certification, which is required for the killing to proceed (after waiting a period specified in section 5(a) thereof). Fair trial standards set in GA 37 'Fairness in Criminal Trials' are not excepted, reserved, etc in any way. Nor would the capital cases falling through the crack be excepted from GA 443's provisions. Given the GA 443 sets standards beyond that of most civilian criminal courts, I don't buy this argument at all.

EDIT. About the appeals. Access to appeals must be provided under section 5(b) of GA 443. This mechanism for diluting fair trial standards by denying appeals doesn't make any sense because doing it would violate GA 443.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:21 am, edited 5 times in total.

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