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[Draft] Repeal: Death Penalty Ban

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Tinfect
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[Draft] Repeal: Death Penalty Ban

Postby Tinfect » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:12 pm

Repeal: Death Penalty Ban
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Origin: Imperium of Tinfect,
Author: Raslin Seretis

Imperial Division of Foreign Policy and Diplomatic Action
Counsel: Tolarn Feren

Counsel: Jasot Rehlan


The World Assembly,

Noting that the target's title obscures the reality of the draft refusing a total ban,

Concerned that certain Member-States may utilize the overbroad military-law exemption to suppress political dissent or perform unjust executions,

Declaring that the restrictions imposed within the target are wildly insufficient to prevent abuses of capital punishment, and,

Convinced that there exist cases wherein the harshest punishments available to Member-States are not merely justified, but a moral imperative,

Hereby Repeals Resolution {number], Death Penalty Ban.


OOC:
In the event that this is needed.
Last edited by Tinfect on Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Honeydewistania » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:12 pm

Tentative support
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KIDS Country
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Postby KIDS Country » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:15 pm

Repealing a yet-to-be approved legislation... novel.

Tentative support.

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Postby Ardiveds » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:31 am

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Postby Pope Saint Peter the Apostle » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:08 am

"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Thu Jan 21, 2021 8:42 am

Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."


OOC:
IA's proposal allows for widespread abuse under military law; for once, we're on the same side here.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:23 am

"Support on this repeal, if the dark times come."
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Astrobolt
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Postby Astrobolt » Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:32 am

Tinfect wrote:
Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."


OOC:
IA's proposal allows for widespread abuse under military law; for once, we're on the same side here.


OOC: IA's proposal specifically allows for further restrictions on the death penalty. This argument is not convincing.
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South Acren
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Postby South Acren » Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:20 pm

"We are already against the banning of the death penalty, so we fully support this. Of course with the state of the WA, I imagine this repeal will be needed, seeing as apparently even serial killers and the like don't deserve to be executed for their heinous crimes...according to the majority...Ahem. Full support, obviously. Though itll need work."
Last edited by South Acren on Sun Jan 24, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Peoples Republic of New Texas
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Postby The Peoples Republic of New Texas » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:06 pm

We stand in opposistion to the Death Penalty Ban and, should it be necessary, will vote in favor of this Repeal.

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South Acren
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Postby South Acren » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:22 pm

Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."

"So you are saying that War Criminals don't deserve death for their crimes? Huh...thats pretty bold."
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San Finn
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Postby San Finn » Sun Jan 24, 2021 8:37 pm

Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."

I agree, the killing of prisoners is a ghastly practice and this repeal has no grounds for success. You not only support the widespread abuse of human beings but are harmful to our collective democracy

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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:03 am

San Finn wrote:
Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."

I agree, the killing of prisoners is a ghastly practice and this repeal has no grounds for success. You not only support the widespread abuse of human beings but are harmful to our collective democracy

Not all nations are democracies, and most people, myself included, see that the ban in the first place isn't very convincing. Capital punishment is not the only punishment we use, in fact, in my nation, you only get the death penalty if you:
-Are found guilty of mass murder
-Are found guilty of mass sexual abuse
-Are found guilty of mass rape
-Are found guilty of terrorism
-Are found guilty or war crimes or crimes against humanity

With all due respect, I appreciate your look at capital punishment but it's skewed and unreasonable, and so is the ban.
Last edited by Untecna on Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:05 am

Pope Saint Peter the Apostle wrote:"We would support a resolution banning the death penalty in military cases too. This repeal, however, we greatly disapprove of."

So you would prefer that people that have committed war crimes to be released into society or just imprisoned?

I feel like you need to take a look at history, my friend. That's not how the world should work.
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Greater Cesnica
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Postby Greater Cesnica » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:20 am

Opposed.
Astrobolt wrote:
Tinfect wrote:
OOC:
IA's proposal allows for widespread abuse under military law; for once, we're on the same side here.


OOC: IA's proposal specifically allows for further restrictions on the death penalty. This argument is not convincing.

I second this. Clause 3 is the precise reason why I support Death Penalty Ban in the first place.

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Neymarland
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Postby Neymarland » Mon Jan 25, 2021 4:57 pm

I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:
1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?
2. This isn't even passed. Some call it courageous and daring, I call it stupid, intolerant, impatient, and just disrespectful to the maker of the other resolution.
3.You say you want to murder anyone you want, like other infamous dictators? If you are serious about this, you would make it a full thing, not just this, this children's book.
No offense, but your arguments are pitiful.
Last edited by Neymarland on Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:46 pm

Neymarland wrote:1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?


OOC:
This draft states quite the opposite, actually.

Neymarland wrote:2. This isn't even passed. Some call it courageous and daring, I call it stupid, intolerant, impatient, and just disrespectful to the maker of the other resolution.


OOC:
Preparing repeals well in advance of passage is standard practice; if that offends you, that is your problem.

Neymarland wrote:3.You say you want to murder anyone you want, like other infamous dictators? If you are serious about this, you would make it a full thing, not just this, this children's book.


Legislation within a repeal is against the rules, however, the most basic research would reveal my replacement;
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=497021
Which, incidentally, should you not read it, contains very very specific provisions about when capital punishment is acceptable.

Neymarland wrote:No offense, but your arguments are pitiful.


I presume you missed the giant gaping hole in the target that effectively allows Member-States to 'murder anyone [they] want'.
Last edited by Tinfect on Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sylh Alanor
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Postby Sylh Alanor » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:22 pm

Given your first three clauses (Noting, Concerned, and Declaring), I assume you'll be fine with people who support a death penalty ban requesting a less-exploitable replacement be drafted before supporting this repeal. Even if it doesn't do enough, it certainly does something, which is more than what we had before.

Regardless, I agree with the above statements that the resolution currently at vote allows for the possibility of further restrictions, and will not be supporting this repeal.
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Tinfect
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Postby Tinfect » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:46 pm

Sylh Alanor wrote:Given your first three clauses (Noting, Concerned, and Declaring), I assume you'll be fine with people who support a death penalty ban requesting a less-exploitable replacement be drafted before supporting this repeal.


OOC:
I am, and as I just stated, I wrote one.
Tinfect wrote:https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=497021


Sylh Alanor wrote:Regardless, I agree with the above statements that the resolution currently at vote allows for the possibility of further restrictions, and will not be supporting this repeal.


I am not comfortable passing and keeping shoddy legislation on the books simply on the basis that it does not constitute an obstacle to future legislation. I had hoped this would be a more widespread view, but apparently I am in the minority with regards to the quality of legislation over opportunism.
Last edited by Tinfect on Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:39 pm

Neymarland wrote:I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:
1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?

Can I expect you to ban war after the Death Penalty Ban is passed? After all, war is the biggest instrument of mass murder out there, and states reserve the right to initiate it.
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Postby Tinhampton » Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:17 pm

Picairn wrote:
Neymarland wrote:I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:
1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?

Can I expect you to ban war after the Death Penalty Ban is passed? After all, war is the biggest instrument of mass murder out there, and states reserve the right to initiate it.

No. War - unlike capital punishment - is covered by prior and standing WA legislation.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Mon Jan 25, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Untecna » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:26 am

Neymarland wrote:I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:
1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?
2. This isn't even passed. Some call it courageous and daring, I call it stupid, intolerant, impatient, and just disrespectful to the maker of the other resolution.
3.You say you want to murder anyone you want, like other infamous dictators? If you are serious about this, you would make it a full thing, not just this, this children's book.
No offense, but your arguments are pitiful.


Starting with "I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:" is already scaring me.

"1. What proof do you have about a state having the right to mass murder?" Okay, calm down buddy, let's sit down and talk. First off, no state has the right to mass murder, and there are resolutions that already cover that, second, capital punishment DOES NOT EQUAL mass murder.

"2. This isn't even passed. Some call it courageous and daring, I call it stupid, intolerant, impatient, and just disrespectful to the maker of the other resolution." r/facepalm

"3.You say you want to murder anyone you want, like other infamous dictators? If you are serious about this, you would make it a full thing, not just this, this children's book." Do you even understand what capital punishment is? Because I can assure you, most, and yes, some nations decide to do no-no things but MOST OF US DON'T, and we use capital punishment as the top punishment, and it is reserved for particularly heinous crimes -cough- Murder, rape, etc. -cough-.

Excuse me, but who's arguments are pitiful again?
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Neymarland
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Postby Neymarland » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:28 am

OOC:
Preparing repeals well in advance of passage is standard practice; if that offends you, that is your problem.

OOC: When Have I said that offends me? Then, you will say you just did. I just frown upon it, not offended by it. Even if on my own resolution.(Trust me, repeals will be there on any and every resolution.)

OOC:
Legislation within a repeal is against the rules, however, the most basic research would reveal my replacement;
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=497021
Which, incidentally, should you not read it, contains very very specific provisions about when capital punishment is acceptable.

Then, what about your replacement? That was the most disgraceful, informal piece of work. Did you add articles? No. And, except for slavery, genocide, ect. A nation can just "convict" someone of that then they are gone from the world.

OOC:
This draft states quite the opposite, actually.

Only to be replaced by the same thing.

You will then say "Oh, but that's not what it is. You're trying to just repeal something and replace it with something worse.
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Postby Untecna » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:32 am

Neymarland wrote:A nation can just "convict" someone of that then they are gone from the world.

You clearly don't understand what a draft is. If you have an issue, you can tell Tinfect in that draft and not here.
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Neymarland
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Postby Neymarland » Tue Jan 26, 2021 9:37 am

Starting with "I am completely fully against this proposal. why is here:" is already scaring me.


OOC: Is someone not agreeing to you ideology "scary?" If so, this is not the game for you.

Okay, calm down buddy, let's sit down and talk. First off, no state has the right to mass murder, and there are resolutions that already cover that, second, capital punishment DOES NOT EQUAL mass murder.


As I said, capital punishment IS USED WRONGLY by many nations. And if there are resolutions to cover this, then why is this proposal here?

r/facepalm


I just oppose the act, I never said I am insulted. You can do it for all I care.

Do you even understand what capital punishment is? Because I can assure you, most, and yes, some nations decide to do no-no things but MOST OF US DON'T, and we use capital punishment as the top punishment, and it is reserved for particularly heinous crimes -cough- Murder, rape, etc. -cough-.


Capital punishment, also known as the death penalty, is a state-sanctioned practice of killing someone as a punishment for a crime. The sentence ordering that someone is punished with the death penalty is called a death sentence, and the act of carrying out such a sentence is known as an execution. A prisoner awaiting his or her execution is condemned and is "on death row". Crimes that are punishable by death are known as capital crimes, capital offences or capital felonies, and vary depending on the jurisdiction, but commonly include serious offences against individuals such as murder, mass murder, aggravated cases of rape, child rape, child sexual abuse, terrorism, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide and offences against the state including attempting to overthrow government, treason, espionage, sedition, piracy, aircraft hijacking, drug trafficking, drug dealing and drug possession and in some cases acts of recidivism, aggravated robbery, and kidnapping.

But, just because most of us don't, we let nations who do go do what they want willy-nilly? And if you use capital punishment for only those things, good job, I congratulate you. But you aren't the only nation out there.

Excuse me, but who's arguments are pitiful again?


From the info above, yours.
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